PINNED ZXD2400 Old + New 0-60V 0-50A Power Supply & Charger

[steves1977uk]

@Burgerman

ZXD2400 display.jpg

They are currently correct for gel, and via an xlr connection.

Even though the 28.20v 8.5a settings are correct shouldn't I still be trying to correct the float settings issue by inputting your settings on the display you stated below?

by Burgerman » 10 Dec 2019, 02:39

I just set it on the display.

12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

But do the CV and float settings above alter for MK gel via an xlr connection rather than Anderson or did you factor that in?

Also now that I am up and running with my first top up charge with my MK gel via an xlr connection to front Shirley banana/pole charge cable how long should my float once the current is at zero carry on for please?

@shirley_hkg

Setting residual current at the display is precise.
However , it will be reverted to Eprom value , every time the charge current is altered.

As I will not be changing the charge current Burgerman's method of changing the display settings rather than Eprom value, once he confirms his settings are for MK gel via an xlr connection rather than Anderson, has to be the way to go?
Many thanks

It shouldn't matter which connection you use if you're only charging at 8.5A, although through the Anderson connector would charge quicker due to less volt drop through thicker wires over a 3 foot cable. If the batteries drop to 0.06A then it should go to the float voltage to keep the batteries from sulfating, but if the voltage starts to climb before it reaches float then you need to set a higher current termination point.

Steve

[optical10]

It shouldn't matter which connection you use if you're only charging at 8.5A, although through the Anderson connector would charge quicker due to less volt drop through thicker wires over a 3 foot cable. If the batteries drop to 0.06A then it should go to the float voltage to keep the batteries from sulfating, but if the voltage starts to climb before it reaches float then you need to set a higher current termination point.

Steve

@Steve
Okay thanks for explaining that regarding the type of connector. I am getting a strange 000 current reading on the green side of the display when I turn it on, which I think means that as I haven't used the chair within 24-hour's it's in the float range with only the voltage fluctuating on the red left and side of the display? However when I put my old charger on it takes about 20 minutes to show a full charge!
I'm not sure if the Shirley is working properly, shouldn't I be at 12a with the rest of Burgerman's settings below?

by Burgerman » 10 Dec 2019, 02:39

I just set it on the display.

12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

[Burgerman]

You dont charge a battery at say 12A. You present it with a voltage, and the battery DRAWS the amps needed to reach that voltage.

So a dead flat battery will draw maximum Amps you have chosen.
A fully charged one will drop to a really low value of a few mA. And when it fdoes it will switch to a lower voltage called float. Which just maintains the battery and tops up that final 1% needed to ensure a long service life.

If you are getting NO amps showing, then what is happening is that the charger is switching to float too soon, and that float voltage is set too low. It should read a few tens or hundreds of mA, and slowly fall to arounf 5mA after a day or two. Its because of the way shirley has it set. It SHOULD go to 27 to 27.2 volts on float. If its lower then there will be almost no current.

Its likely that percentage thing he set to 90 something percent. Ignore that and set float volts to 27.2V. Then it will have some current (amps) that slowly fall as charge completes. And set the termination (transition current) manually to 0.3Amps. Or 0.2A.

Then it will charge properly. Set:
12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

[shirley_hkg]

So it should be 960 instead, if you want 27.15v float from a CV of 28.2v .

[Burgerman]

I wouldnt worry where its set there as a percentage. Because every time you choose a different battery type like Odyssey at 14.7v or AGM at 14.4V or gel at 14.1V, you are changing the float voltage. Which should be the same across those 3 battery types.

So I just set it correctly and then use it. If I then go to another chair a week or two later, I change only the CV voltage and keep the same float voltage. I also change Amps depending on if I am in a hurry (anderson connector) or if its a slow XLR connector.

I also set the transition point depending on the type of chair (some have greater off residual current drain) and the battery itself. If its a 30Ah battery even .1A may be OK. But .2 should be safe. What it should never be is a % of charge current.

[shirley_hkg]

Agreed

[LROBBINS]

I am confused. Is there a way to set float voltage and transition current as such rather than as percentages of the Vcc voltage and charge amps? That would be the more sensible way to do things, but I don't recall there being any way to do so - unless you mean that the user should sit watching the screen and do it manually. If these can only be set as percentages it indeed means that the user has to re-set the eeprom for different battery types, but that seems to me less annoying than manually controlling the switch to float for every charge cycle. (Note: in my use case this is irrelevant as I'm charging only Odyssey P1500.)

[Burgerman]

I am confused. Is there a way to set float voltage and transition current as such rather than as percentages of the Vcc voltage and charge amps?

Yes.
You just twist the dial. I cant remember exactly how so cant describe it. You might need to press, wait till it flashes, turn, wait etc. Its in shirleys translated instructions. You dont need to set anything as a percentage. You can just ignore whats been preset.

Or you might need to start it with the button pushed. Or hold it in for x amount of time to go to the bit of menu that selects 3 stage or not. You set the transition point, and float volts there too.
Dont remember exactly how now!

But I do it every time I charge a different batt type. Takes seconds. You can set the charge volts/amps and set the float volts, as well as float transition current in Amps (like .3) for e,g in figures. Percentages and eproms is all way beyond me! The only issue is that if you then change charge Amps/volts afterwards, it defaults back to wheatever is set in the eprom. Which is always wrong.

Once you get used to setting it its simple. And it doesent change unless you alter something. So is plug and play if you only have one chair or battery type.

[Burgerman]

Here, float is set to 13.8 (too high) and to transition from CV to FLOAT at 1.0Amps, way too high! I set this at around .2 or .3 for the fastest charge, usually gives around 7 hours CV with a 70Ah batt.

http://diy.lgm3361.com/zxd2400/3/annex1/1/

Theres also a translated copy of that page somewhere. But this is available on the menu. You pick the correct figures AFTER you already choose the charge CC/CV Amps and Volts. Then dont change anything and it sticks, till you want to alter something. When you do change something the Float reverts to default % settings.

[LROBBINS]

Thanks

[shirley_hkg]

You set bulk charge CV & amp at the start display.

Into the 3-stage charger menu , you set float volt and residual current .

[steves1977uk]

Here's the translated manual link again... https://translate.google.com/translate? ... zxd2400%2F

Steve

[optical10]

You dont charge a battery at say 12A. You present it with a voltage, and the battery DRAWS the amps needed to reach that voltage.

So a dead flat battery will draw maximum Amps you have chosen.
A fully charged one will drop to a really low value of a few mA. And when it fdoes it will switch to a lower voltage called float. Which just maintains the battery and tops up that final 1% needed to ensure a long service life.

If you are getting NO amps showing, then what is happening is that the charger is switching to float too soon, and that float voltage is set too low. It should read a few tens or hundreds of mA, and slowly fall to arounf 5mA after a day or two. Its because of the way shirley has it set. It SHOULD go to 27 to 27.2 volts on float. If its lower then there will be almost no current.

Its likely that percentage thing he set to 90 something percent. Ignore that and set float volts to 27.2V. Then it will have some current (amps) that slowly fall as charge completes. And set the termination (transition current) manually to 0.3Amps. Or 0.2A.

Then it will charge properly. Set:
12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

what a relief, was hoping it wassn't faulty, many thanks for your patient explanation as well.

[optical10]

Then it will charge properly. Set:
12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

@shirley_hkg @burgerman
With the above setting on XLR connection i'm still seeing NO amps showing so i thought i would try a anderson grey to red connection to eliminate my cables/plugs/soldering but i need the different / equivalent burgerman display settings please, is it just the amps changing from 12a to 24a?

[Burgerman]

Leave it at 12 for now.

[shirley_hkg]

Then it will charge properly. Set:
12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

@shirley_hkg @burgerman
With the above setting on XLR connection i'm still seeing NO amps showing so i thought i would try a anderson grey to red ?

That won't address the issues.

1, are you in the OUTPUT-OFF status ?

2, measure volts of the XLR ; psu & chair as well.

3, post pics of display, or upload a vid to youtube .

12a is enough for your 30Ah
U1 gel batteries.

[Scooterman]

Why does the current keep on spiking?


youtu.be/ 32MXk87wW5k

https://youtu.be/32MXk87wW5k

PS https://youtu.be/CtEUt0wXDUo

[Scooterman]

??????

[Burgerman]

Bad connection. Or fault on supply. Maybe the mains lead, or something. But if its jumping that high it might damage the charger.

Somewhere Between battery and charger, or even power supply. If it only does it on discharge its the charger to chair side.

Also, the vid doesent work, likely some apple issue in the way its stored? And all your pics are upside down, which is another apple thing...

[Scooterman]

Thanks. I will partially discharge over night and try charge tomorrow with spare psu and spare pl8I

I thought i heard a noise from that room during charge but it could have been the boiler, fridge, freezer etc

No smoke or smell

[Scooterman]

The conv frequency is 125khz

Is that right for 150ah cells?

[LROBBINS]

I have not seen anything like that, but there are two things I'd check. (1) Does it do the same thing if the PS is connected to a different mains outlet? and (2) I'd pull both side panels off the PS and look carefully (of course, with it disconnected on both input and output sides) for any signs of sparking/shorting, then, with it still open, and with your hands well clear of it, connect it to mains and a dummy load, dim the room lights, and watch for sparking.

[Scooterman]

That’s an excellent idea Lenny, I shall do that tomorrow

[Burgerman]

Its not about cell size but charging current.

If you want to use small components to charge at high currents you need high frequencies.
If you want the best efficiency, so less heat etc you want lower frequencies, but that wont allow high power.

The conv frequency is 125khz

Is that right for 150ah cells?

[Scooterman]

I see, and it corresponds to what pl8 dialogue box says. Although I don't understand why? What is the frequency relating to? Is it the rate that the pl8 components chop up the input dc supply from the psu, then output put it at the required voltage and charge current for the batteries being charged?

BM & Irving: Re the problem I had I think it might have been the pre-crimped Anderson to ring terminals 8 awg lead I got from Shirley. I was using it for between pl8 banana to Anderson output lead and Anderson to ring terminals cells input. I only use it for bench test but it looked like so discoloration inside the crimped +ve pin. I mashed it (and -ve) up tight with pipe grips just to bench test again. I will make a replacement with soldered connections when I get time.

[Burgerman]

What is it with people and crimping! Crimping is not reliable on thin walled stuff like those andersons. Its so easy to solder them with a turbo type lighter in seconds.

I see, and it corresponds to what pl8 dialogue box says. Although I don't understand why? What is the frequency relating to? Is it the rate that the pl8 components chop up the input dc supply from the psu, then output put it at the required voltage and charge current for the batteries being charged?

Yes the whole PL8 runs at one of 3 selectable frequencies. Higher frequencies allow smaller components to do the same job as long as you increase the frequency. But that costs some efficency. So use low frequencies for a profile hats locked to low charging rates and high frequencies for max power, or the 62k one for a profile that can be set from high to low.

[Scooterman]

Yes the whole PL8 runs at one of 3 selectable frequencies. Higher frequencies allow smaller components to do the same job as long as you increase the frequency. But that costs some efficency. So use low frequencies for a profile hats locked to low charging rates and high frequencies for max power, or the 62k one for a profile that can be set from high to low.

Will do I understand. I remember before reading you explain that when you make a preset for charging a wide range of Ah size cells you pick the 62khz, so then people just have to set the TC mA suitable for their size of cell and balance time at CV.

I just wanted to check because of funny problem I had yesterday which worried me.

[optical10]

Then it will charge properly. Set:
12A
28.20V
.3A
27.0V

@burgerman
I've now changed from XLR's to now using Anderson grey to red because XLR connection still isn't working [might be my solder/wiring] but the Anderson's work.

But having used two thirds power [long run] on these two new MK gel 30Ah batteries it's taking over 48 hours @ 12A to charge for 1st time, is that normal or can i change settings ti make it faster on Anderson's only and revert back when i get the XLR's working or is this the charger sorting out the issues on 1st use that older stock chair charger created?

For the last 12 hours the green amp display has dropped to between 0.00 - 0.03

Thanks

[Burgerman]

Its 90% charged after a couple of hours. Its 99.5% charged at .3A where the voltage drops to the float voltage. At this point you can use it happily. This will be between 6 and if heavily discharged up to 12 hours. If you then allow it to sit on float after the .3A transition, at its lower voltage for a few hours or up to a week, that final 0.5 % is absorbed. Thats beneficial. But impractical most days. So leave as long as you can spare before using the chair. As long as the Amps displayed is no longer falling over an hour or two, its charged.

Its important that it gets FULLY 100% charged a least weekly, rather than 99.5% because that .5 extra removes the lead sulfate back to the electrolyte. If you dont, then it builds up charge after charge, and eventually turns into large non conductive crystals. Then they cant ever be removed. So the closer to 100% charge it gets the lower the sulfation ovcer time. But holding the battery at a high voltage for too long also hurts it. It causes damage to the gel, and grd corrosion. So its important that it drops to the lower slow charging float voltage inside that 6 to 8 hours at CV charging voltage.

It will never 'end' as such. Not sure what you are expecting to see. Float at 27 to 27.2 volts is OK for up to a week. Float at lower 26.6 volts, is perfect for long term storage such as over winter.

[optical10]

Its 90% charged after a couple of hours. Its 99.5% charged at .3A where the voltage drops to the float voltage. At this point you can use it happily. This will be between 6 and 12 hours. If you then allow it to sit on float for another few hours or up to a week, that final 0.5 % is absorbed. Thats beneficial. But impractical. So leave as long as you can spare before using the chair.

It will never 'end' as such. Float at 27 to 27.2 volts is OK for up to a week. Float at lower 26.6 volts, is perfect for long term storage such as over winter.

Great and many thanks, with u guys help i'm learning.

Now to sorting the XLR's which i wired:
Red positive 16AWG 1.5m silicone wire to pin 2
Black negative 16AWG 1.5m silicone wire to pin 3
No wiring to earth pin 1 XLR

but the PG VSI controller XLR requires, from the stock original charger, a 3rd wire [presumed earth] so that my issue [not charging] vs Anderson successful charge diy cable?