R-net

[Burgerman]

Bump since people were asking about this stuff again and the thread as lost!

[Irving]

There's a pm120 on eBay at the moment for 130.

It's an unusual part # D50600.06, not one I've seen before but no reason to suspect it's any different to any other pm120.

[Burgerman]

there are single channel variants. For scooter systems with joystick like the myra for e.g. Those dont work on chairs.

[Irving]

Ah, could be. Though the ad says it was from a Levo Combi stander, and AFAIK that's a conventional 2-motor setup?

[Burgerman]

Yep. Its number just relates to hardware + firmware, and default programming settings. So its plug and play for THAT chair. I tend to ignore numbers completely as it just complicated the identity for no reason. As long as you have a programmer they are all the same. I just presume that all PM90-L for e.g are all the same. All PM120 are all the same. Etc. So far thats all worked out fine...

[Furio]

Here's ISM-6 for US$ 45. But they don't ship out.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/R-Net-Quickie- ... SwJO9dFj2o.

[Burgerman]

Take a look on ireland, uk, and german eBay.

[Gnomatic]

I just grabbed another PM120 and some other bits off ebay for $100. Came with three r-net bus cables, Permobil battery wiring and breaker, Permobil bluetooth module, and Permobil ICS seat controller. Supposedly all stripped from a barely used 2018 Permobil. It all looks brand new.

I really only wanted the PM120, but I'll hang onto the 3X Rnet bus cables as spares. The Permobil ICS seating module and bluetooth module I have no use for, so will likey list those on ebay. Same with Permobile battery harness and breaker.

[Burgerman]

These are silly money ordered via the manufacturer of a chair.

And cheap on ebay used. Makes sense to grab a few spares or upgrade grom the pm90 that most are fitted with. I might keep the battery leads. And ebay any gyro modules and permobil only seating stuff. Look for joysticks. They get ruined first..

[Gnomatic]

That's basically what I'm doing. This is my second cheap PM120 I've grabbed off ebay to replace the PM90's my chairs came with. The PM90's are okay most the time, but they overheat climbing steep offroad hills after about 10 minutes. Same trudging through loose fluffy sand for any lengthy period of time. The PM120's are much more substantial and beefier than the PM90's they are replacing. My hope is they cut down on the overheating when the chair is really pushed.

[Burgerman]

They have 30% extra torque, at the times where the 90A units get stuck. For curb climbing, wheelies, driving up steep stuff. Basically digging yourself out of a hole. Do they allow more average amps over time? Dunno. Probably as they wll be using lower resistance mosfets.

[Irving]

They have 30% extra torque, at the times where the 90A units get stuck. For curb climbing, wheelies, driving up steep stuff. Basically digging yourself out of a hole. Do they allow more average amps over time? Dunno. Probably as they wll be using lower resistance mosfets.

The tear-down I did recently on some faulty units suggests there is little difference between recent PM80, PM90 and PM120s physically. The MOSFETs appear to be the same as do the current sense resistors. It makes sense from a BOM perspective, one set of parts, one build & test regime, then slug the cheaper/lower-spec one in the firmware - it wouldn't surprise me if it was possible to 'upgrade' a PM90 to a PM120. Its what all manufacturers do these days** [though back in the 1980s the minicomputer manufacturer I worked for had 3 speed variations and a standard and extended instruction set - all the same hardware, but a different plug-in ROM for each combo (no in-situ programming then!)]




**Even my recent 100MHz 4Ch Ricol oscilloscope was bought as a 70MHz version - it was then hacked to release £300-worth of 'upgrades' to enable the hardware to operate at 100MHz and turn on additional software functionality. Wasn't even a firmware change, just a hidden software setting you needed the hack to get at!

[Burgerman]

Isnt the main board in the PM90 different to all the rest though? Since it has all the seating actuator stuff built onto the board at one end?

Even if you are correct. How would we get hold of the firmware that allows a PM90 be as capable as the 120?

[Irving]

Isnt the main board in the PM90 different to all the rest though? Since it has all the seating actuator stuff built onto the board at one end?

Even if you are correct. How would we get hold of the firmware that allows a PM90 be as capable as the 120?

Sorry, I meant the PM80 - the same case shape as the PM120, though I thought there was a 90A version of that as well? As to the firmware - there are ways & means, but I don't have the bandwidth to look at that right now.

[Burgerman]

PM 90. Fitted to save money...

[expresso]

yeah but its not that bad if you have one - i mean rnet 120 does 120 for a few sec. - its mostly only 100 - so if the 90 does 90 all the time - that wont be too bad for the avg. user etc, just saying - i rather shoot for the 120A when i do my next chair

[Burgerman]

This is 70 for a few secs, and 90 is boost. So compared to your 120 amp one its lacking 1/3rd torque.

They usuall fit these on chairs with just tilt or recline or something. And 2 pole motors. It has its own SM module if you want it. Not ISM, that wont work with it.

On the other hand it may not exist. I have a bladder infection and things are a bit weird, hot/cold, teeth chattering, and I hear sounds and see stuff that doesent make sense!

[expresso]

just saying not long ago we had the pilot plus 100 - best at the time - i always shoot for 120A Rnet for many other reasons also - alot of functions and options for us -

[Gnomatic]

The PM120 seems to have a much more substantial heatsink/case etc. than the PM90.

[expresso]

i hope to get the Rnet 120 in a few weeks going for my wheelchair clinic for new chair - limited to group 3 -- so its going to be 636 - base - 6.5mph - havnt gone this slow in years - i like to see the difference -

[rover220]

This is 70 for a few secs, and 90 is boost. So compared to your 120 amp one its lacking 1/3rd torque.

They usuall fit these on chairs with just tilt or recline or something. And 2 pole motors. It has its own SM module if you want it. Not ISM, that wont work with it.

On the other hand it may not exist. I have a bladder infection and things are a bit weird, hot/cold, teeth chattering, and I hear sounds and see stuff that doesent make sense!

That's a standard 90 module. Compatible with ism and every other rnet module out there. Sunrise use it extensively, other manufacturers not so much.

[terry2]

I've got someone coming today to take my batteries out so I can make sure I have a 120 A system.

Using the programmer it says

Max current limit 75 A
Boost Drive Current 90 A
Boost drive time 10s

Looks to me they fitted a 90 Amp?

[terry2]

So mine is a D51254.03 Part number 1071639 R-Net 220A

The smaller one is a D 51255.04

Been searching with no luck

[Burgerman]

The single channel one is much dfferent to all the dual channel wheelchair units. And its driving one motor. It may be that it doesent do 120A. Because that would be each motor. And it may not allow 240A (2x 120A channels combined) as you would expect. So may be limited to less. Or it may be set lower because the motor or wiring cant take that many Amps without some kind of damage to it. For e.g demagnatize its magnets. Or heat damage. Or brushes burning. Or gearbox/rubber cush drive strength.

Its a bit of a one off. They dont work like a normal wheelchair controller. Its been factory modified as a scooter controller, with seperate actuator controlled steering like a car or scooter. Normal drive or steering logic and normal wheelchair style control doesent apply. What you have there is a fork lift truck layout, that uses a stability module to make it go straight as rear steer isnt stable. Its settings will be nothing like a powerchair.

[terry2]

The single channel one is much dfferent to all the dual channel wheelchair units. And its driving one motor. It may be that it doesent do 120A. Because that would be each motor. And it may not allow 240A (2x 120A channels combined) as you would expect. So may be limited to less. Or it may be set lower because the motor or wiring cant take that many Amps without some kind of damage to it. For e.g demagnatize its magnets. Or heat damage. Or brushes burning. Or gearbox/rubber cush drive strength.

Its a bit of a one off. They dont work like a normal wheelchair controller. Its been factory modified as a scooter controller, with seperate actuator controlled steering like a car or scooter. Normal drive or steering logic and normal wheelchair style control doesent apply. What you have there is a fork lift truck layout, that uses a stability module to make it go straight as rear steer isnt stable. Its settings will be nothing like a powerchair.

Thanks BM.

Could it be the batteries(Gel) that are slowing me down going up hills?
I never slowed down with my Cell Pack.

I was going to shove the Volts of the motor from 22 to 24-25

[Burgerman]

https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... wer-Module

This is the PM90 or EL 90A unit fitted to lots of cheap 2 pole power chairs. Its a 70A with 90 boost for a couple of secs, includes actuator output. So cheapest way to do a basic chair. Missing 30A of the 120A version.

Yours is a custom build 120 - made into a single channel unit by modification. Not on the website that I can see. Custom build for meyra or other manufacturers that want to steer a scooter/car/buggy with a joystick. I saw one, so know they exist, cant find anyreference to it.

[terry2]

https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Products/Mobility-Vehicle-Solutions/R-net/EL-Power-Module

This is the PM90 or EL 90A unit fitted to lots of cheap 2 pole power chairs. Its a 70A with 90 boost for a couple of secs, includes actuator output. So cheapest way to do a basic chair. Missing 30A of the 120A version.

Yours is a custom build 120 - made into a single channel unit by modification. Not on the website that I can see. Custom build for meyra or other manufacturers that want to steer a scooter/car/buggy with a joystick. I saw one, so know they exist, cant find anyreference to it.

I can't find it anywhere either.

Going to look on Russian and German sites.

[Burgerman]

https://www.cw-industrialgroup.com/Prod ... wer-Module

They show the miserable 60A, 80A ones here, and the 120A version.

On their website after much searching, I can find the:

PM60, 40A + Boost
PM80, 60A + Boost
PM90 EL, 70A + boost and an output for the cheap SM module and one actuatot for say tilt built is.
PM120, 100A + Boost. And with a 4 pole motor, at 6mph and heavy rehab chair thats JUST enough. With 8mph, its lacking if you are used to more control and torque.

The one you have is custom build for each manufacturer as a single channel unit and so likely wont appear as a standard controller above.

[Burgerman]

Why you need the 120 module!
This is my salsa. rear drive. 185kg rehab style chair. Fat user (me).

NOTE the current required on each motor. If the power module couldnt supply that the it MAY or may not start to turn. But it wont be responsive. The chair wont follow the joystick properly. I hate that... See current M1 and M2 (Motor 1 and 2). This is not doing anything special. Just a zero speed turn in place in my hallway. If I do this on the lawn when its soft, its pinned at 120A on each motor. And wont turn reliably.

If this was an 8mph version, with taller gearing it would need 160A instead to get the same torque level. Theres no 160A power modules though... So for my purposes, 8mph motors are a step too far for decent control. It wouldnt (doesent!) turn reliably on a heavy carpet for e.g. Tested a few different 8mph motors.

[Irving]

Why you need the 120 module!
This is my salsa. rear drive. 185kg rehab style chair. Fat user (me).

NOTE the current required on each motor. If the power module couldnt supply that the it MAY or may not start to turn. But it wont be responsive. The chair wont follow the joystick properly. I hate that... See current M1 and M2 (Motor 1 and 2). This is not doing anything special. Just a zero speed turn in place in my hallway. If I do this on the lawn when its soft, its pinned at 120A on each motor. And wont turn reliably.

If this was an 8mph version, with taller gearing it would need 160A instead to get the same torque level. Theres no 160A power modules though... So for my purposes, 8mph motors are a step too far for decent control. It wouldnt (doesent!) turn reliably on a heavy carpet for e.g. Tested a few different 8mph motors.

But would the Meyra need 120 given its not doing zero speed turns.... its a scooter so 90A probably sufficient?