Dietz-Power wheelchairs

[rover220]

Only one i could find John

thats from our stand at a show this year!

[hank]

Struggling on good front pics

[Burgerman]

That appears to be the same width. So a good width at the front by the look of it. Maybe they use a different front frame depending on footplate choice? Or maybe they are all the wider option?

Either way looks to be a decent choice for a rear drive powerchair. No matter what seating requirements you have. But again, like the salsa, you need the CORRECT options ticked on the order form.

Theres loads but mainly centre footplate (3 options here), 120A PM, the new advanced colour joystick, 9 ot 10 inch casters, the wide - not slim option, grp 24 78Ah batts, 12A charger, single post removable arms, and a decent swingaway (not the one they use) and 4 pole motors - 6mph. Or 8 if you really want a chair for skinny people or flat ground, orboth. Because not really enough torque for good control. And then any seating options you need/want.

[hank]

Seem about the best 2 around for RWD options using r net stuff today
Without getting a saw and welder out

[Burgerman]

Theres also the rear drive magic mobility V4 chair. But that is wider which MAY be an issue in some houses and vans. And its priced between the salsa/dietz chairs and the overpriced permobil chairs.

So whilst theres many rear drive chairs in the EU/UK theres really only 3 known good choices. And then, only with a few minor mods, and correct options choosen when ordring. I the US theres no great rear drive option at all other than the V4 chair.

[steves1977uk]

It looks like I'll be getting one of these chairs through WCS. Just got to find a local dealer who can order it in and make me a replica seat like the one I use.

The engineer who came to the assessment was taken aback when I told him I have 4 R-Net PMs and loads of spare parts. Although he did seem a bit clueless when going through the specs and order form for the Dietz chair. He said I "should" get good range with GRP24 78Ah batteries. I'll be taking them out and fitting a 210Ah LiFePO4 pack.

Steve

[rover220]

care to share which dealer?

[steves1977uk]

Sure rover, it's a company based in Kings Lynn called Smart-Wheelchairs... https://www.smart-wheelchairs.co.uk/

Melissa (My PA) should be hearing from them next week to see if they can order it in. If they can't get it, would you be able to help?

Steve

[rover220]

Sure rover, it's a company based in Kings Lynn called Smart-Wheelchairs... https://www.smart-wheelchairs.co.uk/

Melissa (My PA) should be hearing from them next week to see if they can order it in. If they can't get it, would you be able to help?

Steve

Ah, I used to work for them. Don't think they are dealers for Dietz yet. I could certainly help yes.

[steves1977uk]

That's handy to know. Thanks rover!

Steve

[Burgerman]

will be very interested to know what you think steve. As soon as the WCS sort out my next cheque I will be looking very closely myself. Its a choice of 3. Since for rear drive there is just 3 contenders as far as I can see that are worth looking at.

Rear drive magic mobility but cost and size make them a bit rubbish in a van or indoors. And no sensible deal. Too many $$$ Starts at 10k plus all the options... https://allterrainwheelchairs.co.uk/pro ... 9441984601

Or another salsa plus a few minor mods/adjustments like last time, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7455&start=600#p122818
Or one of these Dietz chairs. With similar options and minor changes. ALL done, around 7k inc wheels etc. But involves discounts, and a bit of work.

Again, all depends on details The details and what can be done, because of them really matters. And access to parts at a sensible price does too.

Not 100% sure what to get yet. Need more info than is on the deitz site.

[Swan T.W.]

Are extra modules needed for this or just programming that is needed?
https://www.smart-wheelchairs.co.uk/wp- ... ngActuator Keypad
The Actuator Keypad allows to control the seating positions of a powered wheelchair with an R-net control system.
The keypad allows to control the actuator’s axes (lifts) 1 to 5 on an R-net system.
The keypad is available in two versions: with buttons or with paddles.

There are two different versions of keypads available for CJSM1 or CJSM2 joysticks.
Simple connection: via a 3.5 mm stereo jack into the mode socket of the joystick.

[rover220]

Are extra modules needed for this or just programming that is needed?
https://www.smart-wheelchairs.co.uk/wp- ... ngActuator Keypad
The Actuator Keypad allows to control the seating positions of a powered wheelchair with an R-net control system.
The keypad allows to control the actuator’s axes (lifts) 1 to 5 on an R-net system.
The keypad is available in two versions: with buttons or with paddles.

There are two different versions of keypads available for CJSM1 or CJSM2 joysticks.
Simple connection: via a 3.5 mm stereo jack into the mode socket of the joystick.

No more modules required. Most chairs are pre 0rogrammed but there are some that will require a setting change.

[steves1977uk]

will be very interested to know what you think steve. As soon as the WCS sort out my next cheque I will be looking very closely myself. Its a choice of 3. Since for rear drive there is just 3 contenders as far as I can see that are worth looking at.

Rear drive magic mobility but cost and size make them a bit rubbish in a van or indoors. And no sensible deal. Too many $$$ Starts at 10k plus all the options... https://allterrainwheelchairs.co.uk/pro ... 9441984601

Or another salsa plus a few minor mods/adjustments like last time, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7455&start=600#p122818
Or one of these Dietz chairs. With similar options and minor changes. ALL done, around 7k inc wheels etc. But involves discounts, and a bit of work.

Again, all depends on details The details and what can be done, because of them really matters. And access to parts at a sensible price does too.

Not 100% sure what to get yet. Need more info than is on the deitz site.

Will do BM!

Steve

[Swan T.W.]

Are extra modules needed for this or just programming that is needed?
https://www.smart-wheelchairs.co.uk/wp- ... ngActuator Keypad
The Actuator Keypad allows to control the seating positions of a powered wheelchair with an R-net control system.
The keypad allows to control the actuator’s axes (lifts) 1 to 5 on an R-net system.
The keypad is available in two versions: with buttons or with paddles.

There are two different versions of keypads available for CJSM1 or CJSM2 joysticks.
Simple connection: via a 3.5 mm stereo jack into the mode socket of the joystick.

No more modules required. Most chairs are pre 0rogrammed but there are some that will require a setting change.

Thanks.

[Swan T.W.]

We have just taken them on. Very nicely built and sensible pricing. Both cheaper than sunrise, better built and much better support and backup.

Do you know who makes their 12 amp charger and is it dual voltage?

[Burgerman]

No idea. But all mobility chargers are junk so it doesent much matter! I suspect it will work on 120V as well. Most stuff we have here in the EU does.

[rover220]

We have just taken them on. Very nicely built and sensible pricing. Both cheaper than sunrise, better built and much better support and backup.

Do you know who makes their 12 amp charger and is it dual voltage?

Am picking one up tomorrow so will let you know.

[Swan T.W.]

We have just taken them on. Very nicely built and sensible pricing. Both cheaper than sunrise, better built and much better support and backup.

Do you know who makes their 12 amp charger and is it dual voltage?

Am picking one up tomorrow so will let you know.

Thanks

[Swan T.W.]

No idea. But all mobility chargers are junk so it doesent much matter! I suspect it will work on 120V as well. Most stuff we have here in the EU does.

Yes but 12 amp must be better the 8 amp.

[Burgerman]

Without a doubt! But they are $$$$$ for another 4A and will not make as much of a difference as you expect.

A big amp charger is great for putting a lot back fast on a very discharged battery. If you discharge a battery deeply 12A is better. So 8mph chairs, 12A pretty much essential. 6mph chairs? Not as important. Because the battery on average doesent get as deeply discharged on a daily basis.

As you charge a battery (A GOOD battery - low impedance, low peukert) it will draw a very high current initially. My ODYSSEY batts when new and healthy draw 80A or so on initial charge. For a few mins. And because they are very low impedance can be 90% charged in 45 mins. But it still takes 12 to 16 hours to FULLY charge after a deep discharge.

Most cheap mobility batts and gels esp dont take that sort of current as they are higher resistance and esp when connected via the chairs long loom and XLR connector. So they may charge at 12A for a while, but it soon drops to a lower figure. This length of time depends on how deeply discharged they are.

If 60% to 100% discharged, it will help them get a better charge on the limited time we have overnight. If only 50% or less discharged, it will barely make any difference.

So yes better. In some cases. And with some batteries. But you will notice a bigger difference by using an anderson connector and a MUCH CHEAPER 8A charger. (you should see the price of 12A mobility chargers!) Because once the charger is at CV the amount of current that flows will be higher. Remember it only flows because theres a few mV difference between the battert volts on charge and the charger volts. And the stock chairs thin loom, and XLR have a fairly high resistance.

So yes it is better. It would be a lot better with decent sized cable and an anderson! And then you are not limited to 12A either. So then a 20 or 30A charger will really add some Ah to a discharged batt part way through the day. But you still need a full 8 to 16 hour charge to make the battery live a long life.

Sunrise also offer a 12A charger (manditory on 8mph chairs as they know that those murder the batteries so are low enough for a bigger charger to help).

Heres an eg.
This is a high powered charger on a fully discharged battery. But thats 30A on a 140Ah battery.
So think of that 30 as 15Amp charger on a 70Ah battery. So just a couple of hours on a fully discharged battery.

[rover220]

http://www.ivra-electronics.nl/EN/P5/Pr ... 24V-6A-12A

[Swan T.W.]

http://www.ivra-electronics.nl/EN/P5/Products-Ivra-Electronics/c-Go-24V-Battery-Charger/c-Go-Battery-Charger-24V-6A-12A

I'm waiting for the tech. specs. from there. Thanks rover

[Burgerman]

They wont tell you the stuff you want to know. For e.g at what point does it end charge, and why? At what current and what time limits? Thats the important one. And what exact charge and float voltage etc. And again why on earth dont the put the damned charge algo ON THE WEBSITE! All of them are as bad. Anyone that wants a charger has to guess, buy, and then try and figure out what it does and how badly afterwards!

[Burgerman]

I downloaded the technical PDF. Its as useless as a chocolate fireguard.

[Swan T.W.]

I downloaded the technical PDF. Its as useless as a chocolate fireguard.

How did you accomplish that?

[Burgerman]

You enter your email, it sends the link.

Its called "technical information". However its about as technical as the website. No useful unfo at all.

They send this link...
http://www.ivra-electronics.nl/admin/mi ... tation.pdf

It claims to charge lithum, AGM and Gel... Which means there has to be some way to switch from one to another. And it claims to charge across a large range of capacity. Which means it must have some way to change termnation current too. If not then its just like every mobility charger...

I doubt they even know. They probably customise the firmware depending on the bulk purchaser wants/needs such as dietz. But most are not that accurate. This is an "invacare" charger...
Logged via the PL8 in monitor mode:
(Note that its so messed up that nobody can figure out what its meant to be doing!)

[Burgerman]

This is a PL8 charging a battery. This shape curve is what the above graph SHOULD have looked like, what it was meant to be doing. Except for gel, it should never have exceeded 28.2V.

Here below charged BY the PL8, it was set correctly at 14.7V for Odyssey, and to stop charging at 130mA and that takes around 9 hours or so. Note that it does exactly as it says on the tin!

[Burgerman]

There is NO tech info on those pdf files! Just some dumbed down marketing garbage.

Can you tell me EXACTLY what the charge algo is? CV voltage, termination based on current or time or hopefully both, and float voltage etc?

E.G. TECH CHARGE INFO:
For Gel, 14.10V CV at room temp, and terminates at 1/750thC or 12H CV limit whichever is first, then 13.45V float.
For AGM 14.50V CV terminating at 1000thC or 8 hors whatever occurs first, and 13.5 float.

Thanks!

I emailed them... Lets see what they say. I am frustrated by the fact that no charger manufacturer seems able to give any sensible info. And its impossible to know if a charger is any use without it.

[Burgerman]

These are correct for SEALED recombinent deep cycle batteries we use. These are after waiting 12H disconnected. And dont reflect the considerable voltage drop loaded and in use... Because nothing can!

The RED part is where your battery meter shows red too! Because the voltage drops under load. When your chair shows red, at 12V, the battery and scooter is done. Finished. Empty. Unless you wait many hours for the peukert to recover some capacity back. AT 12V THE CHAIR IS DEAD. It will not keep going. It will work a light bulb. It wont drive a heavy load like a chair.

Look at HOURS. These are actual usable Ah capacity available from a typical lead battery.
So if you drive a chair at 7mph for 2 hours (14 miles) ... Only THIRTY PERCENT of the lead battery is usable. And you stop. Lead is crap.
This is capacity LOSS due to peukert. The faster you remove power the less there is.