PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

very colourful and spiky. Did you test to be sure that its the PL8 thats faulty and not the BMS? It actually looks like what you would get with a bad connection.

[shirley_hkg]

I really wish you were right , but sadly it itsn't.

The other PL8 shows the right things.


https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/ ... 52#p182252

[fishinjunky]

I set the charge volt a bit lower and raised it to 3.6V when it is partially balanced, to avoid prolonged exposure to over voltage of the high cells .

My PL8 cannot read cells 2&3 correctly. They should read as the average of their own.

Glad to have alternatives , when PL8 is impossible.

I wish icharger had software like this.

[fishinjunky]

Instead of using a bulky possibly unreliable fuse holder or fuse block could I just use a 150A midi fuse the way BM describes in a older thead.on the power cable from battery to chair?

Postby Burgerman » 09 Aug 2019, 22:55

Screw connectors?

I wouldnt. You just need a normal ring terminal and solder it, midi fuse, and a M5 nut/bolt. Covered in heat shrink. Its smaller neater and wont screw up, come loose, or be a high resistant point

[Burgerman]

YES

[fishinjunky]

YES

Hey bm I'm using all sb50 connectors. Should I put a fuse on my charge cable?

[Burgerman]

I have not. Well I have a 40A one on SOME charge cables. But the PL8 only uses SAFE shielded non touchable ends at the charger. See below.

[Burgerman]

I am using this to charge at 40A.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... DCABLE.jpg
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... le-40A.jpg

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... -pl8v2.jpg
https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... nector.jpg

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... nector.gif

And the other half on the chair.

[fishinjunky]

I am using this to charge at 40A.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... DCABLE.jpg

And the other half on the chair.

I don't think I'm going to fuse the charge cable. I plan on leaving the 4mm plugs always plugged into the iCharger and just connect and disconnect at the sb50 connector.

I have my db9 balance cables separate from my charge cable with sb50 connectors

[Burgerman]

If they have bare ends, fuse them. Or you will pull them out and forget. Or they will get pulled by mistake and theres a battery on the other end...

[LROBBINS]

Instead of a fuse I'd just use some GOOP to glue the banana plugs to the charger. You won't easily pull them out, but if you need to it's not hard to peel off.

Of course, though I recommend this, I actually did something different on my PL8 -- I just replaced the banana plugs with an Anderson SB50.

[fishinjunky]

If they have bare ends, fuse them. Or you will pull them out and forget. Or they will get pulled by mistake and theres a battery on the other end...

Great point!! I'm glad you said that because that could easily happen in many ways. Should I fuse the positive wire at the charger say a 50 amp midi fuse because I may change in sync mode at 50A

[LROBBINS]

Instead of a fuse I'd just use some GOOP to glue the banana plugs to the charger. You won't easily pull them out, but if you need to it's not hard to peel off.

[fishinjunky]

Instead of a fuse I'd just use some GOOP to glue the banana plugs to the charger. You won't easily pull them out, but if you need to it's not hard to peel off.

Is this the stuff ?
https://www.amazon.com/Amazing-GOOP-130 ... B0000A605I

[LROBBINS]

That's one of many very similar formulations. I prefer the industrial formulation E6000 (has a different solvent) from the same mfr, but there's really very little difference once the solvent's evaporated. Of late I've been buying a Chinese copy, six large tubes every 6 mos. or so.

[fishinjunky]

That's one of many very similar formulations. I prefer the industrial formulation E6000 (has a different solvent) from the same mfr, but there's really very little difference once the solvent's evaporated. Of late I've been buying a Chinese copy, six large tubes every 6 mos. or so.

i think i may do both. Only because of the very rare chance one of my little nieces or nephew somehow unplug it or trip over it. But i wouldnt have it connected with them here. Ill goop the 4mm plugs to the charger and place a 50a midi fuse near the charger side of the charge cable or should i place the fuse on the battery end. I really like overkill.

[fishinjunky]

what do you guys think about flood soldering 8 gauge 6 and 4 gauge ring terminals instead of crimping. I plan on flood soldering all 8, 6, and 4 gauge ring terminals and anderson lugs instead of crimping. They are all closed so can be flood soldered. I see many do both solder and crimp but would i be ok with only a good flood soldering ?
just a example of what i mean by flood soldering
https://youtu.be/6IjG6-PxNBs

[Burgerman]

I do it all the time. Not how he does it. That will result in dry joints. Tin wires, use flux, then Fill with solder. Push wire in while you heat.

[fishinjunky]

I do it all the time. Not how he does it. That will result in dry joints. Tin wires, use flux, then Fill with solder. Push wire in while you heat.

I was wondering why he didn't tin the wire and use flux. But that's why I never use YouTube vids as a guide and usually hesitate posting links to there.

I think soldering will be easier for my mom than using a big hydraulic crimper. Soldering just sounds intimidating to a beginner like me. But once practice a couple times it's no more difficult than crimping

[Burgerman]

Soldering is definitely fast if you do it right. Seconds. If its taking longer then its already too late/too hot, oxidised and a fail. Crimping first just makes it easy as it holds wires in position. But sometimes I dont bother. Crimping alone is definitely useless. Most of the time. Esp on larger connectors and for different electrical reasons on balance wires.

You can learn to solder small stuff with a good iron, right flux for the job, and the right solder in mins. Clean unoxidised surfaces, correct temp say thermostatic 350C iron, and 3 or 4 goes on scrap and you are done. Practice all day. Bigger connectors like andersons same thing. But with a turbo lighter.

[fishinjunky]

Soldering is definitely fast if you do it right. Seconds. If its taking longer then its already too late/too hot, oxidised and a fail. Crimping first just makes it easy as it holds wires in position. But sometimes I dont bother. Crimping alone is definitely useless. Most of the time. Esp on larger connectors and for different electrical reasons on balance wires.

You can learn to solder small stuff with a good iron, right flux for the job, and the right solder in mins. Clean unoxidised surfaces, correct temp say thermostatic 350C iron, and 3 or 4 goes on scrap and you are done. Practice all day. Bigger connectors like andersons same thing. But with a turbo lighter.

What type of solder and flux do you recommend?
'Im about to order solder and flux an want to get the right stuff

[Burgerman]

It depends what you are doing.
Flux thats non corosive and non acid only works on super clean new copper or circuit boards and new components. Atiny bit of oxide such as copper wires and it may not work or tin properly.

Flux thats mildly self cleaning or mildly active is best on non tinned copper wires etc.

Flux like plumbing flux is very active and willl solder anything, even if dirty and the solder runs freely.

Get all 3...

As for solder, any lead/tin solder, 60/40 and rosin cored will be fine. Buy branded quality not chineseum cheap made from god knows what.
That too has some flux in it. Not enough on its own. But hhat flux can be active, very active etc. Doesent much matter as you will be adding flux to the joint anyway. And you need thin stuff and thicker stuff... Depending on job. So again get a few.

[Wavedy2]

I am using this to charge at 40A.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... DCABLE.jpg

And the other half on the chair.

I don't think I'm going to fuse the charge cable. I plan on leaving the 4mm plugs always plugged into the iCharger and just connect and disconnect at the sb50 connector.

I have my db9 balance cables separate from my charge cable with sb50 connectors

by doing that be sure you'll burn your 4010duo.
you must follow the exact procedure mentionned in the user manuelo

i know and use this charger since a decade so i think i can say i know it well or very well. IT's a fantastic charger mucho more than PL8 for example or other brande, very stong with 10 cells capacity but if you don't care it could be ''dangerous'' too

[Burgerman]

by doing that be sure you'll burn your 4010duo.

ou must follow the exact procedure mentionned in the user manuel

Because its electrically fragile. Correct sequence matters or smoke. Not so with the PL8, it is not important what order you connect everything. Because its electrically far more well designed.

Fuse?
The fuse is for the battery charge cable protection and the charger cant tell if it fused or not.
Although the ichargers are much more electrically fragile than the PL8. For e.g the ichargers can be damaged by connecting a battery first instead of the supply. Sometimes by connecting the power/balance in the wrong order. They even include a warnng on the website that warranty is void if used for non hobby sized packs. Because with heavy use they are much less reliable than the PL8 is... And too many warranty problems. The PL8 does not suffer from these issues.
And they also cant do all the graphing, configuration detail etc by PC etc that the PL8 allows. Also they cant allow you to set a termination current in any sensible way. Only by way of a percentage of charge current. Yes a iCharger will work. But its certaily not superior to the now discontnued PL8 in a bunch of ways.

you must follow the exact procedure mentionned in the user manuelo
i know and use this charger since a decade so i think i can say i know it well or very well. IT's a fantastic charger mucho more than PL8 for example or other brande, very stong with 10 cells capacity but if you don't care it could be ''dangerous'' too

In what way? Because the charger doesent use intrinsically safe connectors (like the PL8 does) then you should fuse the cables. Because they may have a battery at the other end and the unsafe 4mm connectors can be shorted together and thousands of amps may flow destroying the charge cables. On a PL8 with proper safe connectors, that cannot happen.

[Wavedy2]

i well know PL8 too. check the user manual it's the same way or viry similar to connect it
you can;t say 4010 is fragile or you never used it to say that. also who is still alive ??? PL8 or 4010

you can't say that about 4010 as i can't say PL8 is not god just 4010 is stronger but (as for many equipment) you must folow wome rules

to close this, why do i use 4010 instead of PL8 ? why do I and many guys too ?
because of the 10 cells capacity of the 4010 !

difficult to campare a Twingo and a RR V8 ....

ciao !

[Wavedy2]

After reading the manual I think it will only allow the discharge voltage to be set down to 3.0v but I'm not sure

no ! for life it is 2 volts

ciao !

[fishinjunky]

I am using this to charge at 40A.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM3-co ... DCABLE.jpg

And the other half on the chair.

I don't think I'm going to fuse the charge cable. I plan on leaving the 4mm plugs always plugged into the iCharger and just connect and disconnect at the sb50 connector.

I have my db9 balance cables separate from my charge cable with sb50 connectors

by doing that be sure you'll burn your 4010duo.
you must follow the exact procedure mentionned in the user manuelo

i know and use this charger since a decade so i think i can say i know it well or very well. IT's a fantastic charger mucho more than PL8 for example or other brande, very stong with 10 cells capacity but if you don't care it could be ''dangerous'' too

What is the correct hook up procedure I read it in the manual I just want to make sure I do it right?

[fishinjunky]

i well know PL8 too. check the user manual it's the same way or viry similar to connect it
you can;t say 4010 is fragile or you never used it to say that. also who is still alive ??? PL8 or 4010

you can't say that about 4010 as i can't say PL8 is not god just 4010 is stronger but (as for many equipment) you must folow wome rules

to close this, why do i use 4010 instead of PL8 ? why do I and many guys too ?
because of the 10 cells capacity of the 4010 !

difficult to campare a Twingo and a RR V8 ....

ciao !

No use in debating which is better ( although I do like a good debate) I don't think it will help us at this point. Maybe if both were on the market.

I think these are the chargers that have some potential for us that are on the market
ICharger 4010duo
Icharger 308duo
ICharger x8
ICharger dx8 duo ( coming soon)
ISDT P30

[fishinjunky]

After reading the manual I think it will only allow the discharge voltage to be set down to 3.0v but I'm not sure

no ! for life it is 2 volts

ciao !

Your right I just saw that

[fishinjunky]

by doing that be sure you'll burn your 4010duo.

ou must follow the exact procedure mentionned in the user manuel

Because its electrically fragile. Correct sequence matters or smoke. Not so with the PL8, it is not important what order you connect everything. Because its electrically far more well designed.

Fuse?
The fuse is for the battery charge cable protection and the charger cant tell if it fused or not.
Although the ichargers are much more electrically fragile than the PL8. For e.g the ichargers can be damaged by connecting a battery first instead of the supply. Sometimes by connecting the power/balance in the wrong order. They even include a warnng on the website that warranty is void if used for non hobby sized packs. Because with heavy use they are much less reliable than the PL8 is... And too many warranty problems. The PL8 does not suffer from these issues.
And they also cant do all the graphing, configuration detail etc by PC etc that the PL8 allows. Also they cant allow you to set a termination current in any sensible way. Only by way of a percentage of charge current. Yes a iCharger will work. But its certaily not superior to the now discontnued PL8 in a bunch of ways.

you must follow the exact procedure mentionned in the user manuelo
i know and use this charger since a decade so i think i can say i know it well or very well. IT's a fantastic charger mucho more than PL8 for example or other brande, very stong with 10 cells capacity but if you don't care it could be ''dangerous'' too

In what way? Because the charger doesent use intrinsically safe connectors (like the PL8 does) then you should fuse the cables. Because they may have a battery at the other end and the unsafe 4mm connectors can be shorted together and thousands of amps may flow destroying the charge cables. On a PL8 with proper safe connectors, that cannot happen.

Bm should I fuse the charge cable at the battery?