help me

[q700m]

can I vary the motor compensation in the driving profiles?

[Burgerman]

If you want. Why would you do that?

[q700m]

If you want. Why would you do that?

because on the flat and downhill, for me it is better to have a less snappy chair

[Burgerman]

You DONT adjust load compnsation to make the chair "less snappy" you adjust whichever parameter is bothering you. Steering? You reduce TURN SPEED, MINIMUM TURN SPEED.
Or add more DAMPING.


Never try to make it smoother by reducing load compensation. Beause that prevents the chair ever being in proper control or responding predictably.. Or from turning, PREDICTABLY and from making any controlled movement. Motor compensation (a correction) is in use at all speeds, at all times weather braking or urning or accelerating. This is why it is set by the manufacturer and is NOT accessible to a dealer or end user. It even affects braking. It changes the way the chair responds to an input when set correctly so that you get the same reliable effect regardless of load. If you set it too low the chair will respond quickly some times and not at all other times. Dont do that!

[q700m]

turning accelerations and decelerations I keep them at 1%.
100% for me chair is too snappy.
I keep forward accelerations and decelerations at 1%.

[Burgerman]

1 PERCENT? You gotta be kidding me. You must do the OPPOSITE.

Set motor compensation to exactly what the manufacturer intended.
Set TORQUE high.
Set Forward acceleration, and reverse acceleration, (and deceleration) to whatever you are happy with.
Set TURN SPEED to a rediculously low figure if thats all you can cope with, and MINIMUM TURN SPEED to as low as is needed in order to keep you happy.

Set turn ACCELERATION and MINIMUM TURN ACCELERATION to 90.
Set turn DECELERATION and MINIMUM TURN DECELERATION to 100.

It wIll not be jumpy at all. Provided you set TURN SPEED (S) low enough. But it WILL TURN slowly. As slow as hell... Set that higher than 1... Test lots of different settings for that like 2, 3 4 5 etc until it turns just enough.

PLEASE for my sanity, do exactly as above. DO NOT worry. It will turn so slowly that it might not move left or right at all! Then increase the turn speed a bit at a time until you are happy. You are actally doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you need.

But dont appear to understand. With turn accelerations set to 1% it is no wonder the chair is tipping you out! Because the delay means that faster turning comes about a minute after you want it! And it will KEEP turning another minute after you wanted it to stop turning.
PLEASE set it as above.

[Burgerman]

How in hell would you steer a car with a literal 1 minute delayed steering wheel. It would still be turning right a minute after you choose left! You would have left the road and be half a mile across the feilds. THIS is why your chair is behaving dangerously.

[LROBBINS]

t wIll not be jumpy at all. Provided you set TURN ACCELERATION low enough.

I think you meant to write TURN SPEED. The idea is to set TURN ACCELERATIONS very high so it responds without delays, and TURN SPEED quite low so it is not jumpy.

[Burgerman]

You are right typo. I am frustrated. I am just going to change it! FIXED.

[biscuit]

Set motor compensation to exactly what the manufacturer intended.

Do I understand correctly, that motor load compensation is intended by the manufacturer to correct for the electrical resistance in the wires?
And is it the same thing as motor compensation?

[Burgerman]

No. It does that too. But it is designed to correct for the LOAD that a motor sees. So that the response you get from a joystick gives a linear accurate response to joystick position. Regardless of surface, terrain, angle or load.

If you had NO load compensation, say set to zero for e.g. And if joystick is set to a slow speed like 1 or 2, and you are on a smooth hard surface like my tiles kitchen or concrete driveway. And decide to "turn in place". Or accelerate forwards. It will probably do so. Because load is very low.
However try that exact same same thing on a thick pile carpet and it would likely not have adequate torque to move at all. Worse still if you try that on slope. Or with a heavy user.

With load compensation set to the CORRECT figure, there is almost no difference in both scenarios. It will turn reliably, or move in response to the joystick predictably and RELIABLY in the exact same way on a smooth hard level surface, as it will on a thick pile carpet, or a ramp or in any scenario. It simply adds the CORRECT amount of "extra power" to overcome the additional load on the motor. To make it follow what the joystick tells it to do regardless of load. Or speed setting. Or joystick "amount" of throw.

How it actually works.
When a motor is running freely it takes a very low current (amps). Its typically 1 to 4 Amps. So the motor rpm simply depends on volts. So if the joystick sends say 2 volts to the motor (typical at FULL LEFT STICK when set to a slower speed like 1 or at small stick movement) the UNLOADED motor will turn at a slow speed. Now add a load. Like a fat human, the weight of the chair and a carpet. Now we have a very high rollong resistance. And so the motor cant turn free/unloaded. So it doesent move and drawas a higher current because it is stalled/loaded. Motor load compensation simply monitors the current in amps, and adds more volts! Every time it sees a higher current it assists. Behind the scenes. This moves the "stuck" or slowed motor o make it respond.

And it is doing this with a plus and minus effect all of the time which helps with chair control, traveling in a straight line, ramps, thresholds, braking, turning etc. It makes a simply enormous difference. Withot this a powerchair is practically undrivable. Its a positive feedback loop. But add too much and the chair will run away. Out of control. But as long as you have the turn and forward accelerations set high enough you can feel the chair become very touchy and nervous before that happens as long as you increase in small (5mOhm) increments at a time.

It basically makes the chair behave predictably and reliably regardless of angle, load, weight or terrain. And go where it is told.

What everyone should do is set it to 0 or off. And attempt to use the chair. Thats a real eye opener that lests you understand why its so important! And what it feels like. (unusable!)

[q700m]

1 PERCENT? You gotta be kidding me. You must do the OPPOSITE.

Set motor compensation to exactly what the manufacturer intended.
Set TORQUE high.
Set Forward acceleration, and reverse acceleration, (and deceleration) to whatever you are happy with.
Set TURN SPEED to a rediculously low figure if thats all you can cope with, and MINIMUM TURN SPEED to as low as is needed in order to keep you happy.

Set turn ACCELERATION and MINIMUM TURN ACCELERATION to 90.
Set turn DECELERATION and MINIMUM TURN DECELERATION to 100.

It wIll not be jumpy at all. Provided you set TURN SPEED (S) low enough. But it WILL TURN slowly. As slow as hell... Set that higher than 1... Test lots of different settings for that like 2, 3 4 5 etc until it turns just enough.

PLEASE for my sanity, do exactly as above. DO NOT worry. It will turn so slowly that it might not move left or right at all! Then increase the turn speed a bit at a time until you are happy. You are actally doing the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you need.

But dont appear to understand. With turn accelerations set to 1% it is no wonder the chair is tipping you out! Because the delay means that faster turning comes about a minute after you want it! And it will KEEP turning another minute after you wanted it to stop turning.
PLEASE set it as above.

no, I do not mock you
I keep turning and forward acceleration and deceleration at 1% to make the joystick less sensitive

[LROBBINS]

Setting acceleration low DOES NOT make the joystick less sensitive - it just makes it take more time to whatever you set as turning SPEED, and makes it take more time to stop the turn. What makes the joystick less sensitive is lowering turning SPEED.

What happens if turn acceleration is set low and speed is set high and you move the joystick left or right is that you will slowly start to turn, but the turn rate will keep increasing and increasing over time. If you now take your hand off the joystick (or move it in the opposite direction) the turn will continue and only slowly go away. You will never have decent control, but will turn too much in one direction and then in the other.

In aviation this is called a "pilot induced oscillation" and engineers go to great lengths in designing the control system to avoid this. If aerodynamic design is not enough, they add electronic helpers to try to counteract it. When those programs are not good enough, we get crashes such as those of the Boeing 737MAX. Your equivalent of those crashes is flipping the wheelchair. You are programming your chair in exactly the wrong way.

I fear that you will eventually be badly hurt if you insist on doing things this way.

[Burgerman]

no, I do not mock you
I keep turning and forward acceleration and deceleration at 1% to make the joystick less sensitive

As lenny said above. Those 1% turn accelerations and decelerations are WHY it keeps turning while you went up/down the ramp and thats WHY it turned and fell over! The chair was responding to some input that you gave some time earlier. And worse you cant stop that by correction with the joystick. Its dangerous. And setting a too low compensation makes that even worse!

Set all 4 turn accel and decel to 100 and then REDUCE TURN SPEEDs instead to your crazy slow speeds. Then it wont crash...

I wish the manufacturers would set these 4 settings for turn accel, turn decel, to 100 and just HIDE them They cause every single production chair to steer like a drunken hovercraft and be barely usable.

[q700m]

no, I do not mock you
I keep turning and forward acceleration and deceleration at 1% to make the joystick less sensitive

As lenny said above. Those 1% turn accelerations and decelerations are WHY it keeps turning while you went up/down the ramp and thats WHY it turned and fell over! The chair was responding to some input that you gave some time earlier. And worse you cant stop that by correction with the joystick. Its dangerous. And setting a too low compensation makes that even worse!

Set all 4 turn accel and decel to 100 and then REDUCE TURN SPEEDs instead to your crazy slow speeds. Then it wont crash...

I wish the manufacturers would set these 4 settings for turn accel, turn decel, to 100 and just HIDE them They cause every single production chair to steer like a drunken hovercraft and be barely usable.

can I try setting the turning acceleration and deceleration to 100 per cent and lowering the engine compensation?

[Burgerman]

NO NO NO!
Set its compensation to the manufacturers original number. Setting it lower will prevent it doing its job. And that will make YOU over control. And overshoot.
And you NEED IT TO WORK properly.

TRUST me, set turn aceleration, and deceleration. AND minimum turn accel, decel. All to 100.
And leave them there.
Set compensation, to manufacturers recommended.
Set torque to 50 for now.

Set the TURN SPEED and the MINIMUM TURN SPEED to as low as you can. And test it. You may need to increase these two a bit at a time. It will be supper sluggish and not sensitive at all.

[q700m]

NO NO NO!
Set its compensation to the manufacturers original number. Setting it lower will prevent it doing its job. And that will make YOU over control. And overshoot.
And you NEED IT TO WORK properly.

TRUST me, set turn aceleration, and deceleration. AND minimum turn accel, decel. All to 100.
And leave them there.
Set compensation, to manufacturers recommended.
Set torque to 50 for now.

Set the TURN SPEED and the MINIMUM TURN SPEED to as low as you can. And test it. You may need to increase these two a bit at a time. It will be supper sluggish and not sensitive at all.

on forward accelerations and decelerations I can keep them at 1%, I don't want the chair to jerk

[LROBBINS]

Even for Forward and Reverse accelerations, 1% is way too low. For these, start with the factory acceleration and deceleration settings and reduce the forward and reverse speeds and/or increase the damping to avoid jerking. DO NOT REDUCE COMPENSATION BELOW THE ORIGINAL MANUFACTURER SETTING!

[Burgerman]

on forward accelerations and decelerations I can keep them at 1%, I don't want the chair to jerk

Sound like you dont want it to actually move.

[biscuit]

In January I was ill and had little hand control. But my forward acceleration I kept at 100%. So I'm thinking that 1% forward acceleration is too low.

When I lost my hand control I longed for 80% forward acceleration, but couldn't change my wheelchair programs! Now I am relieved that I did not change that parameter, as it would have been annoying.

As for the turning acceleration and deceleration, I would never drive my chair with them less than 100%. Neither now or when I have an exacerbation. Might consider it if there was enemy or someone using my chair that I wanted to play a trick on.

[LROBBINS]

Caro q700m,

danneggiare

mi sono molto preoccupato. Temo che I valori di accelerazioni che hai messo nella tua carrozzella non solo danneggiarono la carrozzella ma che tu potrebbe risultare infortunato - sono PERICOLOSISSIMI. Potrei provare di spiegare nel mio povero italiano cosa abbiamo già detto qui in inglese, ma se la tua casa non è troppo lontano da Siena (abito nel comune di Monteroni d'Arbia lì vicino) potremmo incontrarci e possiamo provare a programmare la tua carrozzella in modo che la guida sia liscio ma anche sicuro.

Cordiali saluti,
Lenni Robbins

P.S. Burgermaster ha controllato il tuo IP e visto che stai in Italia.

[q700m]

on forward accelerations and decelerations I can keep them at 1%, I don't want the chair to jerk

Sound like you dont want it to actually move.

I can't proportion the force on the joystick, that's the problem

[Burgerman]

Then its even more important that you do as already described.

[q700m]

Caro q700m,

danneggiare

mi sono molto preoccupato. Temo che I valori di accelerazioni che hai messo nella tua carrozzella non solo danneggiarono la carrozzella ma che tu potrebbe risultare infortunato - sono PERICOLOSISSIMI. Potrei provare di spiegare nel mio povero italiano cosa abbiamo già detto qui in inglese, ma se la tua casa non è troppo lontano da Siena (abito nel comune di Monteroni d'Arbia lì vicino) potremmo incontrarci e possiamo provare a programmare la tua carrozzella in modo che la guida sia liscio ma anche sicuro.

Cordiali saluti,
Lenni Robbins

P.S. Burgermaster ha controllato il tuo IP e visto che stai in Italia.

thank you, but we are not close, I live in southern Italy

[q700m]

Then its even more important that you do as already described.

if I increase acceleration and deceleration in the forward direction the chair hiccups

[Burgerman]

What does that mean? I have mine set to 90. Forward acceleration. What is a hicup???

Do you have a gyro? TURN IT OFF. It makes everything more "jerky" and cannot be used with high turn accelerations. Mine is disabled in all profiles.

[q700m]

What does that mean? I have mine set to 90. Forward acceleration. What is a hicup???

Do you have a gyro? TURN IT OFF. It makes everything more "jerky" and cannot be used with high turn accelerations. Mine is disabled in all profiles.

mean that the chair jerks when I accelerate and decelerate

[Burgerman]

The very fact that something changes sped (accelrates) IS a jerk.

How can it speed up or slow down without that?

Do you consider this a jerk?
I dont. And its all set to 100% forward acceleration! And obviously this isnt what you are wanting! But its not uncomfortable to me.

Im heavy, and 63 in april. This is a rear drive powerchair.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

[q700m]

The very fact that something changes sped (accelrates) IS a jerk.

How can it speed up or slow down without that?

Do you consider this a jerk?
I dont. And its all set to 100% forward acceleration! And obviously this isnt what you are wanting! But its not uncomfortable to me.

Im heavy, and 63 in april. This is a rear drive powerchair.

https://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

Sorry, I didn't explain myself well.
i cannot move the joistick in a linear and proportional manner, i use the joistick more like a switch

[Burgerman]

Yes. I know. I figured that out right from the start of this thread. Because with those settings you have it a case of move joystick, then watch the clock. So theres no way to do anything else.

I tried setting my R-Net Salsa chair like that to test. Its completely and absolutely unusable. And highly unpredictable very dangerous and uncontrollable all at the same time. It literally goes anywhere but where you want.