help me

[rover220]

You need someone who knows what they are doing to visit you and spend some time setting this up properly.

[Burgerman]

YES

[Burgerman]

The "knows what he is doing" part is likely to be an issue!

Italy is nice in spring! And flights are cheap!

I suspect its 4 things combined.
a) CG and seating way too far forwards causing overloaded front arms/rocking.
b) And not stiff/stable enough seating mounting causing rocking during acc/dec.
c) this causes unwanted back/forwards input due to the position of his hand and joysick hold technique where instead of a steady reference hand and finger to control joystick his whole arm is used without a stable reference point.
d) he is scared of it actually doing anything because this is exadurated by the above factors causing loss of control.

So he keeps on reducing the chairs movement inc m.compensation to crazy low values until it basically barely moves. If it doesent move it cant go out of control right? But he actually added shit loads of delaty... Makng it uncontrollable slowly!!! He is trying to fix the problems with programming that actually need alternative fixes. Or even different control inputs or chair.

Trying to find anyone in this industry that could understand or even see this will be hard. Finding one that will take the required bull by the horns and drill/hacksaw and fix the problems, or/and find fixes for the issues before messing with the programming in a random way will be even harder. If he would post a video all this would be much clearer or show other problems we dont know about.

So yes you are right. But it wont be easy to find a person that can/or will do it. Thats why lenny ended up DIY for his daughter. Its why I ended up doing everything myself to get a usable chair. Etc.

[q700m]

what happened, as written in the 1st post of this tred, maybe happened because I had lowered the motor compensation by 10% and also had the settings very low.
what do you think?

[Burgerman]

Honestly? I give up. Its impossible to communicate this way. And you dont understand what I write.
Video???

I KNOW why what happened in the first post happened. And I explained this in 10 different ways repeatedly.
Where is the video?

[q700m]

Honestly? I give up. Its impossible to communicate this way. And you dont understand what I write.
Video???

I KNOW why what happened in the first post happened. And I explained this in 10 different ways repeatedly.
Where is the video?

https://www.mediafire.com/file/0cvxh3yp ... 1.mp4/file
type joystick

[Burgerman]

Are you a bot?

That is no use.
I NEED to see at least 5 minutes of you DRIVING and using the chair. With the settings as I posted. Untl then any more of this is pointess.

LIKE THIS. Indoor and outdoor. I need to CLEARLY SEE YOUR PROBLEMS.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

JUST DRIVE NORMALLY - NOT LIKE I DO.

[q700m]

https://www.mediafire.com/file/ib0eb41g ... 1.mp4/file
with your settings I am afraid and move everything around

[Burgerman]

That video is much too short. Was that an attempt to go straight? If so then I do not know of a workable solution using a joystick. The chair was just responding quite gently to what you were telling it to do. The problem was that you were telling it to turn.

Please set a LOW speed like 2 and then drive it in a straight line for at least 20 seconds or more.

Why are your legs waving around. They need to be strapped down or something because they affect your whole body movement and therefore the joystick movement. Instead of steering with the joystick you are pushing it with your hand from above. That wont work.

If this was an attempt to drive straight then I do not know what to suggest except that a joystick is not the answer. If YOU push it left or right thats what it will do. You would get the same result with a car, a computer mouse etc.

Your arm needs to be ON THE ARM for stability. and you need hand/wrist finger control to point the joystick forwards. And only forwards or where you need to go. You dont seem able to do that. Did you consider head switches etc? Or 4 seperate buttong for forward, backward, left, right?

Like these:
https://sunrisemedical-group.com/products/switch-it
Because realistically your joystick control is just not good enough.

[Burgerman]

Also the faster a chair is then the harder it is to control as far as turning is concerned. You should never have got an 8mph one. 13kph. You need a 6kph chair. And a mid drive is less directionally stable, you should have got a rear drive chair.

So you really need some other form of control, as well as a 6kph chair, and rear drive. And legs tied down, properly strapped in, and alternative controls.

Maybe you need 2 joysticks, ONE FOR FORWARDS AND BACK. Another for left/tight only.

Either way what you have isnt going to work. You dont have enough control capability in your hand. Hard to hear as that may be. Whatever you program you MUST be able at least tell the chair what to do. And you cant (if this was an attempt to go straight.)

A CROSS type restrictor may help. See image of a joystick with a CROSS type restrictor plate. In this case on an arcade game. This shape of restrictor could be 3d printed and added to your joystick. It allows ONLY forwards. ONLY left or right. ONLY reverse. You cannot steer as you go forwards. I and most people would find that highly frustrating and a bit dangerous! But you cannot steer or go straight anyway. So for you it may help

[q700m]

I just want the acceleration and deceleration to be as low as possible and the joystick to be as insensitive as possible

[Burgerman]

I know. It already is. Thats not the problem. Your inability to accurately control a normal joystick means that you need a different way to input data, or a modified joystick or alternate controls. As it is you cannot drive that chair with a normal joystick.

Again you never reply to questions. Was that an attempt to go straight?
I asked for 5 mins of video so I could properly see whats happening. But got 3 seconds. So its really hard to properly assess. But from what I saw in 3 seconds this is almost a lost cause with stock joystick and that chair. Why not a longer video, or 10 short ones. Something to actually see whats happening.

[q700m]

I know. It already is. Thats not the problem. Your inability to accurately control a normal joystick means that you need a different way to input data, or a modified joystick or alternate controls. As it is you cannot drive that chair with a normal joystick.

Again you never reply to questions. Was that an attempt to go straight?
I asked for 5 mins of video so I could properly see whats happening. But got 3 seconds. So its really hard to properly assess. But from what I saw in 3 seconds this is almost a lost cause with stock joystick and that chair. Why not a longer video, or 10 short ones. Something to actually see whats happening.

was not to go straight, but to go right and left, but he does it too fast for me

[Burgerman]

Set turn speed slower. ONLY!
Set damping higher.
Set the FRONT DRIVE software higher.

NOT turn acceleration. NOT compensation.

Then do a video of you driving to the shops and back or something. From all angles. But from what I saw its hard to tell if you will be able to drive with a joystick. Not a 3 second video. Strap legs and body.

Theres a few things you need to know.
MID DRIVE chairs are much more twitchy and turn much easier. This is because unlike a rear drive chair which tries to go straight, they "want" to turn. So you would be better with a REAR DRIVE chair.
And that 8mph or 13kph chairs are also less accurate and less easy to drive straight. They also turn faster. You should be using a 4mph chair. 6kph.

Did you understand about restrictor plates, programming front drive mode as a higher percentage in programming etc as I already suggested or am I wasting my time? Did you try that and test?

[q700m]

with the EDGE chair even MD at 10km/h I drive it with confidence
at 30mohm engine compensator the q700m had become like the EDGE

[Burgerman]

You just ignored all my questions and comments again.

[daveonwheels]

You just ignored all my questions and comments again.

i dont think he understands english very well

[Burgerman]

Tell me about it. It looks to me like he will need some straps, and a bit of engineering work. At very least. Doesent seem to have the hand ability for sensible control. Hard to tell in a 3 second vid.

He says he is showing it turning left and right and that its out of control. But it looks like its doing exactly what he tells it to do. But he doesent want it to?
He could reduce turn speed from 10 to a lower figure. If he thinks thats too much. Or as I already suggested to set the FRONT DRIVE RATE higher. That has the same affect when going fast. It changes the software "restrictor shape".

Looks fine and is behaving as expected to me though. But the real issue here is that he is moving around. He isnt stable in the chair and has limited hand control. Needs a seating adjustment/straps and maybe some means of stabilising his arm /legs etc.

And possibly a slower geared chair. The faster they are the less accurate and controlled the steering is and the more they swerve with the same turn input.

[Burgerman]

Lets try again.
I already asked you to TEST this. You ignored me again.

1. SET turn speed, and minimum turn speed to 7.

2. SET the YELLOW fields, AS BELOW:
Do the ADVANCED ELECTRONIC STABILITY first on its own. And do not set is above 55. And TEST. It should help you.

3. AFTER you test the ABOVE (2) then test the FRONT WHEEL DRIVE TYPE as shown, seperately. So you know how that feels. It MAY help you or may make it worse. TRY these SEPERATELY.


Then TEST With video so I can see.

[q700m]

the ADVANCED ELECTRONIC STABILITY
does it also work on MD chairs?

[slomobile]

these settings are almost fine for me, but the joystick forward is still very sensitive,
is there a setting to reduce the sensitivity?

Maybe try
Minimum Forward Speed 0%
Minimum Reverse Speed 0%

and consider increasing Maximum Forward Deceleration and Maximum Reverse Deceleration so you can stop quicker if you let go of the stick. You want that as high as it can be without feeling like you will slide out of the chair when you let go of stick.

[Burgerman]

The problem is much more fundamental. He is ALREADY climbing out as he drives.

Its impossible to have any semblence of control accuraccy while your legs and arms are waving around in mid air.
So job one is to get a torso harness fitted, and some velcro straps to keep legs together and feet on footrests. And probably arms too.
THEN consider if a joystick is the best method and I doubt it is. Maybe head switches for left/right and joystick for forwards and backwards?

And again the FRONT DRIVE settings, software stability that wont allow it to turn "fast" (not that it did) while rolling. His idea of sensitive is just really mild turn. Made to look too much as he is basically waving all his limbs in mid air.

And then its time to do some more serious programming.

Thats what he needs, but will not reply or discuss or actually do it. Or do a sensible video. So I cant see enough of whats happening. So at this point we are wasting everyones time.

[q700m]

Switched Input Smoothing
what's the use?

[daveonwheels]

i did already conclude q700m cant drive a chair anymore. and im flabbergasted that he ignores you when you went out of you way to try to fix it sensibly so that he can

[q700m]

i did already conclude q700m cant drive a chair anymore. and im flabbergasted that he ignores you when you went out of you way to try to fix it sensibly so that he can

why do you say that?

[slomobile]

It certainly isn't ideal. But strapping in is a personal choice. A very tough choice to make with high muscle tone.

With legs up like that, there is a lot of pressure on the sit bone. Caution doing anything restricting the ability to shift off of that spot to prevent sores. He can probably feel those sores, and they hurt.

Comfort would be improved a lot with custom molded seating. Control a little bit too. Tilt the seat back to help him settle into a consistent place against the seatback and support the thighs. Trough or custom molded armrest placed to actually support his arm. He could try whole arm movement sliding forward/back on a fabric covered armrest, and wrist for turning. 2 cushioned lateral points of contact touching his lower forearm for stabilization and reference.

Shape the chair to guide his body into a consistently comfortable configuration. Then move the joystick to where his hand wants to be. Rather than forcing his body to conform to the arbitrary shape of the chair.

I know a bit about having a body that doesn't fit well into commonly shaped chairs. When you have people shouting common instructions at the same time they are invalidating or ignoring the success you have already had experimenting on your own, it is easy to assume those giving instructions do not understand your unique problem. I'm not surprised he isn't responding in the way you hoped.

He found something that nearly works for him. He can build on that.

[Burgerman]

He is STILL ignoring all my last posts. Again!

No replies and no comments and no answers.

Now this?

Switched Input Smoothing
what's the use?

To smooth the input from a switched digital control. It will make ZERO difference to your joystick.
At this point I am going to stop responding until you have read this page and repllied to my questions and tested the things that I suggested. And sorted out your seating and legs etc.

[q700m]

ADVANCED ELECTRONIC STABILITY ON
how to do the test to find out if it works?

[Burgerman]

DRIVE

Better or worse?
I doubt you can tell while you are waving arms and legs around. You must sort out the seating, straps, velcro etc.

[q700m]

with these settings it is fine for me. the motors are less nervous .
but 30mohm is forbidden unfortunately