I dont get it...

[Burgerman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxKk8zgj ... _embedded#

MV-1 Launch

This thing has been hyped lots, and for a very long time. But its doing what? I mean doing what better than the dozens of vans and cars out there already?? For EG why would I want to swap a braun/rollx/vmi/add your own for one of these?

It obviously hit every branch as it fell out of the ugly tree. I have never seen a more ugly car. It will eat fuel, is higher than my van so needs a really long or steep ramp, and I cant drive it from a wheelchair...

What have I missed?

[Lord Chatterley]

That is one ugly motor and the ramp is insane.
Bet the ride is like the top storey on a stagecoach only you get to smash you head on the window if it takes a sharp corner.

LC

[Burgerman]

But why is it so promoted as the solution to wheelchair transport? Must be something I missed.

[Art Springs]

From what I have seen so far I suspect a large part of their first marketing target is taxi companies etc to provide accessible transportation that is not easily available for people.

As has been mentioned I am sure they will be coming up with more models as time goes. I did visit their facebook page briefly and they are already getting plenty of statements from people like me who point out "I like to drive myself, want power doors for greater independence etc"

On looks, personally I prefer a small sports car but reality says big boxy etc is needed if power chair accessible is needed.

[Burgerman]

But its ugly compared to all the existing solutions too, like the toyota, honda, chrysler, and european VW, KIAs, Fiats and other vans we generally already use, and has a bigger greedier motor too...

So will likely not apeal as a taxi either. If it was diesel, (like the chrysler minivans and VW and most of the other vans are here with about double the mpg) then maybe it would be good as a high mileage taxi.

As for the longer ramp - meaning usual disabled places are not usable or you are forced out into the road wen getting in/out, higher floor, no electric or even wheelchair accessible door, no lowerering suspension, then as usual it seems they forgot to bother to ask wheelchair users what we needed again!

EG - I dont want pushing in, or having doors opened for me. Not mentioning the fact that we cant actually drive it.

[Burgerman]

Similar thoughts and long thread found here http://www.wheelchairjunkie.com/forums/ ... 0&page=all

All seems like 5 years development wasted though. They took 5 years to develop a big heavy thirsty car with high floor into a not very wheelchair freindly taxi / transport for wheelchairs. That already has better thought out competition for at least 10 years. What are they on? Seriously they only needed to ask a few actual wheelchair users to see that it wasnt ideal.

[ex-Gooserider]

I've seen one, and don't quite get it either, but...

First off, it really isn't intended to be sold to individuals, they seem to be targeting more the commercial / fleet market - think "wheelchair accessible taxi", where you have an AB driver to help load the wheelchair passenger(s), and parking isn't really a big issue since it is more a pickup / drop off sort of pattern... The ramp has two different length settings, either short and steep or long and gentle slopes.

The thing is also supposed to be capable of "drive from the chair" and is actually claimed to be "friendlier" to adaptive driving gear than other vehicles, however they haven't worked out HOW to sell this universally. The intended distribution channel for the vehicle is via regular car dealers, who aren't capable / qualified to do adaptive gear installs (especially the "high tech" stuff) but it's claimed the mobility dealers in at least some areas don't want to deal with vehicles that they haven't sold themselves (and presumably made the big bucks on)

I agree that it doesn't seem like a terribly good solution, but it is supposedly cheaper than doing a lowered floor conversion mini-van type vehicle, and slightly more fuel efficient than a lift equipped, raised roof full size van.

I still think the ideal would be if one of the major automakers was to come out with a "wheelchair ready" vehicle on the order of a lowered floor mini-van configuration, made on the usual assembly lines by the regular autoworkers - should be a LOT less expensive to build something like a Braun or similar vehicle from the start rather than building the entire vehicle, then sending it to one of the converters to have it taken back apart and rebuilt differently....

Even if the "wheelchair ready" version cost 10-20% more than the "normal" version, it would still be a bargain compared to the current situation where it can cost MORE for the conversion than it does for the base vehicle....

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

I still think the ideal would be if one of the major automakers was to come out with a "wheelchair ready" vehicle on the order of a lowered floor mini-van configuration, made on the usual assembly lines by the regular autoworkers - should be a LOT less expensive to build something like a Braun or similar vehicle from the start rather than building the entire vehicle, then sending it to one of the converters to have it taken back apart and rebuilt differently....

The interesting thing here to me is that owners of regular chryslers are always amazed at how much better it is to have all this interior room, headroom for walking about. It m,akes the vans MORE desirable than wasting 11 inches of floor/headroom to hide the "stow away" seats in... They have always said when looking at mine that they would swap the stow and go seats for all the interior space anyday. So they could likely make ALL the minivans with flat floors and 57 inches of headroom and sell them just the same or more anyway. Rather than just a line for lowered floor models. Then they get the Taxi, disabled nsarket as well as those using them for small businesses (interior space) and normal families may prefer them too.

[ex-Gooserider]

It's a mixed bag... I agree that the space is nice, but at the same time our current van, made with easily removable, but not "stow & go" seats leaves us with the sometimes challenging question of figuring out just what configuration of seats we want on any given trip... I wish there was a better solution of how to have seats that were easy to get out of the way when they aren't needed.

In my Braun van, the seat backs fold down, and then can be folded up and propped so that the base is up at about a 60* angle - or if there is enough stuff piled in behind them, 90*. Of course this means the seat cushions and back are sticking forwards into the center drop floor area so I don't know how much of a problem they'd be for getting in and out with a chair... The two seats are in a 60-40 split arrangement and it is possible (with some difficulty) to remove the larger seat entirely. The smaller one would be harder to remove as the Braun equipment computer is located on the underside of the seat base.

I am also concerned to some degree about the lowered ground clearance that the van has compared to a non-modified one - I don't know how much of a real issue this is, and I'm sure it will be something I really won't get until I actually have had some driving time on it. This is something that isn't even a concern to us with the current van, assuming that we stay on something resembling roads or normal flat terrain....

I would think that if a major car maker was to do a suitable chair ready van, then it would seem to me like they could design in things like more ground clearance and better seating as opposed to making do with what is given them to work with like the conversion companies have to do.

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

The Rollx vans are a couple of inches higher than the braun vans at the rear, and 1 inch higher at the front, A combination of the towing package and a spacer I was informed. But whilst I started out worried, after hearing stories, I havent once had any issues. Although I dont do off road etc. So I wouldnt be too concerned.

[ex-Gooserider]

Don't have measurements to compare, but Braun does use the towing package shocks (If the van doesn't come with them, you have to upgrade (for a "mere" USD $750 ) Don't know how accurate what I'm told is, but both Ride-Away and the chief engineer for Mass Rehab say that Braun runs the suspension up as high as it is supposed to be safe to do so... They also said that the "first impact" point wasn't actually the lowered floor, but the exhaust pipe running under it...

I'm somewhat concerned as the last couple hundred feet of road to our house is VERY rough, with a high crown and lots of potholes...

Ride-Away has sent drivers to get me a couple of times -once including Mary-Anne who is quite a large person - with the driver, Mary-Anne and I (with power chair) in the van, we were probably not all that far from the rated GVW capacity... We didn't hit on our road, but there was a short scrape on the drive around the Ride-away office, which didn't look that rough to me...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

May be time to hire a JCB to sort out the crown in the worst spots and use the material to fill in the bigger holes.

[Foz]

I cringe everytime i go over speed bumps, the 1s at Asda carpark makes my Entervan bottom out unless i go over them like a slug. Its the front left, they have put a plate on which takes the bottom out?? i think and hope!..
i never had this problem with my 1st one from Ricon...Activan..it was a bit more jacked up, they only made them for a couple of years.

[Burgerman]

I remember old man Bekker (who builds "rollx" vans with his name using rollx parts RHD versions in the UK) telling me that they always fit some spacers to the tow kit as per rollx, and that they were slightly higher. An extra inch makes all the difference (so I am told! ) so you could probably order some from rollx and fit them to an entervan? At least worth investigating. In addition I fitted 245/50 - 18 tyres, that are about an inch and a bit bigger diameter than stock. These give another 3/4 of an inch extra. All these small bits add up!

[ex-Gooserider]

May be time to hire a JCB to sort out the crown in the worst spots and use the material to fill in the bigger holes.

Would love to, but I'm not sure where to start in even getting the permissions needed - the road is "private" down near our end, and runs in front of one neighbor's house before getting to ours, as well as the guy at the end of the road, so there are three houses involved, with at least two or three different sets of gov't owned land on the other side of the street, presumably each with it's own set of procedures to get through.... The road itself is supposedly on a mix of our (and the neighbor's) land, the official "right of way" and the town lands... In addition, since it's a "private" road, we would have to pay for any improvements out of pocket, even though currently the town does come down and dump some hot patch in the worst spots a few times a year...

Much easier if I can avoid bottoming out...

May look into the bigger tires and spacers to see if I can bump things up a bit... Aside from the ramp / kneeler stuff, the big issue I've been told is that there is some concern with not putting to much flex on the front drive shafts in order to avoid overloading the CV joints - putting more boost on the front end (other than with bigger tires) can be problematic?

ex-Gooserider

[Art Springs]

Do you know anyone who can do a title search on your property and adjoining properties to find out who is responsible for what portions of the road leading up to house? If not I may be able to get a friend of mine to help me to do what can be done via net or at very least give you some info to start with so you can get all in front of one person who knows a bit of real estate law to figure out who would have to pay for repairs to the drive etc.

(if you own the property the company that handled the closing and any title insurance should have already done a search and you might be able to get copy of all from them at little to no cost beyond copy costs)

[ex-Gooserider]

According to Mary-Anne, who is the one who owns the house, each of the three homes the road passes in front of own part of the road, and the town owns the rest. The road is "not approved" according to the town, which means they don't have responsibility for it, though in the past they have occasionally put some hot patch on the worst of the potholes, and they pay to have it plowed (badly) in the winter time.

I don't know all the details, but there is a procedure for getting the town to "accept" a road, which involves getting it repaired and brought up to current standards, at which point it can be brought to a vote in front of Town Meeting, and after being accepted the town DPW is responsible for keeping it up, which may or may not mean that it stays in good shape - we are talking a government agency after all....

The costs of bringing the road up to spec are normally born by the abutters, or possibly the developer if it's something like a subdivision, which wouldn't be the case for us... A few years back, there was a problem with our water lines, because the original builder had used plastic pipe, which the town doesn't accept - even though the town inspectors had approved the original installation, we ended up having to pay a hefty sum to replace the plastic with the town mandated concrete lined cast iron pipes... Now the town is responsible for the mains up to where it branches off to our house....

Bottom line is that if we were to get the road fixed, we (and maybe the neighbors) would have to be the ones that paid for it, and from what I understand, the kind of repairs that would be required are big bucks....

ex-Gooserider