Permobil M3 on the way, where should I start?

[playafly187]

Coming from a toned Quickie S636-SE with lithiums. I know the M3 won’t be nearly as fast and will handle like mud at default. I’d like to get the most advanced level tuner possible. Does that come in the form of PC software and if so, how do I obtain it? I don’t have much experience with R Net so for all I know, everything to program could be built into the joystick and easily user accessible (although i doubt it). Any help to point me in the right direction would be most appreciated!

[emilevirus]

Ehh.. Not sure but I think Permobil uses R-Net with locked out firmware. Can't program it unless you have an account and they approve you.

[rover220]

If its a new m3 then it will have the new power platform control system. Essentially rnet but not user programmable.

[Burgerman]

Permobil does it again. Isnt it r-net built for permobil under licence? Like their joystick etc? What actually happens if you attempt it though? Did anyone try? Or are the bus cable connections different too?

[rover220]

Permobil does it again. Isnt it r-net built for permobil under licence? Like their joystick etc? What actually happens if you attempt it though? Did anyone try? Or are the bus cable connections different too?

The new power platform requires an app with associated account in order to be able to program. On chairs with firmware lower than 1.50 you can still use a dongle for programming (not seating though) after 1.50 the loophole was closed so it's impossible.

[Burgerman]

Beautiful.

Dont buy. Dont buy.

[emilevirus]

Or are the bus cable connections different too?

They use 6 pins rather than 4.

[rover220]

Or are the bus cable connections different too?

They use 6 pins rather than 4.

You can still use the 4 pin cables. The 6pin cable is only for the new Cjsm2.

Any other device that connected to the system uses 4pin as old.

[emilevirus]

Ahhh makes sense. Their new cjsm2 is wifi too

[rover220]

Ahhh makes sense. Their new cjsm2 is wifi too

Not quite. WiFi is built into the power module but is for programming purposes only, at least at the moment. The chair creates a WiFi hot-spot that the new quick config programming app connects to.

Bluetooth is also built into the power module rather than the Cjsm2 or Omni2.

[emilevirus]

Ah, so PM is beefed up. That's still very bad. If Permobil's servers go down, theres no way to program your chair.

[Burgerman]

You cant anyway.

One by one every manufacturer making CURRENT systems has gone the same way. (other than normal R-Net).
Ever more elaborate systems designed to keep them in charge, to take our powers away have happened.. Sooner or later this will happen with R-net too. Permobil have been partly this way for years. They have their own stuff, manufacturerd for them under some kind of agreement.

To me a chair that I cannot buy barts, extras, and FULLY CONFIGURE and PROGRAM at the OEM or better level is no use at all.
When I buy a new chair thats one of the half a dozen deal breakers. If I cant buy or already own an OEM level programmer then its off the list.

Only r-net really remains as a complex rehab system that allows this. Which is why I have 3 full R-Net top of range systems/chairs. And 3 or 4 complete systems with a few extras on the shelf either new or as new as parts. Because one day that last outlier may vanish too. I have enough R-net complete systems to convert 4 full new powerchairs if I have to do that. And that will see me out.

[emilevirus]

Get a generic R-Net PM on eBay and sell your Permobil one.

[Raro]

And on top of that, not even the technicians themselves know how to solve the problems. I know of someone who has bought a new M3 and has been without a wheelchair for three weeks. The worst thing is that this problem extends to everything around us, such as cars.

[rover220]

Get a generic R-Net PM on eBay and sell your Permobil one.

Not possible with power platform. Power module is completely redesigned

[rover220]

And on top of that, not even the technicians themselves know how to solve the problems. I know of someone who has bought a new M3 and has been without a wheelchair for three weeks. The worst thing is that this problem extends to everything around us, such as cars.

The they are dealing with the wrong people.

[rover220]

All manufacturers are tightening up on users being able to program, and it isn't really their choice to do so.

The MDR regulations are the biggest driver of this, at somepoint it will be impossible to self program no matter the manufacturer.

[Raro]

And on top of that, not even the technicians themselves know how to solve the problems. I know of someone who has bought a new M3 and has been without a wheelchair for three weeks. The worst thing is that this problem extends to everything around us, such as cars.

The they are dealing with the wrong people.

That's what I told him, five days after handing it in, he started having a problem with the brakes. They gave him the excuse that the technician was on vacation...

[emilevirus]

All manufacturers are tightening up on users being able to program, and it isn't really their choice to do so.

The MDR regulations are the biggest driver of this, at somepoint it will be impossible to self program no matter the manufacturer.

I can understand if it's provided but if you paid for it, you should have full control of it. Just like Tesla, Apple, etc. You purchase their product but you don't really own it. They dictate how they want you to use it, they still have full control over it even though you bought it.

[Burgerman]

What frustrates me is that it doesent matter WHAT it is.
I have amassive fight to get a damned simple prescription for anything. Even my repeat presciptions going back 27 years they manage to get wrong almost every month. Why do I need a precription...
Just ordered some metformin (pre diabetes) after self diagnosis, and from an illegal operation in canada...
Same shit with bladder infections. I would be dead if I listened to them.

And after somehow getting scabies I actually attempted to get a cure from the NHS. Its literally impossible. They treat you like a baby, make you do endless apointments, weeks apart, send you to skin "expert dermatoligists" who tell me what I knes 3 weeks ago, who then offer the same crap I already tried a weeks ago. Its all one excuse after another. So tried what they said and several other topical things that all failed dismally so I then ordered the real cure ivermectin from another dodgy drug supplier online. This crap happens over and over.

We are infantalised in the extreme and kept away from absolutely anything that may cost something, or that may work. By completely incompetant idiots. Prescriptions, and "experts" that know 10% of what I do.

Regarding chairs, I can program my own chairs, I know EXACTLY what I want and why. And I would say that I never met anyone that that had any clue or time available to do what I do myself. Not even 10% of it. And that this is MY LIFE, and my legs, and I do not want any useless "expert" that hasnt damned clue telling me what to do. In this or anything else. So I spend a grand on at least 4 full sets of high end R-Net systems s new or actually new with extras and spares to supplement my three, R-Net existing powerchairs.

If they DO lock down all future chairs, I will just bin the useless control sstems and retro fit R-Net from day 1. Including any NHS supplied chairs.

[emilevirus]

Regarding chairs, I can program my own chairs, I know EXACTLY what I want and why. And I would say that I never met anyone that that had any clue or time available to do what I do myself. Not even 10% of it. And that this is MY LIFE, and my legs, and I do not want any useless "expert" that hasnt damned clue telling me what to do. In this or anything else. So I spend a grand on at least 4 full sets of high end R-Net systems s new or actually new with extras and spares to supplement my three, R-Net existing powerchairs.

If they DO lock down all future chairs, I will just bin the useless control sstems and retro fit R-Net from day 1. Including any NHS supplied chairs.

Yeah exactly, the way R-Net works imo is perfect. It's hard enough to stop people who don't know what they're doing but easy enough so that anyone a bit tech savy can. At this point they know what they're doing so if they set everything at 100% and break their legs it's their problem. Just like people modding cars & motorcycles. What's frustrating is that everything is leaning towards that. Everything will be controlled by cloud and have control on the products you paid and own. Biggest example is Apple iPhone. Half the world has an iPhone, paid over $800 for it and have 0 control over it. Apple could decide tomorrow to shut down all iPhones and you wouldn't be able to do anything against it.

[Burgerman]

Well I wouldnt have anything apple on principle regardless. I do not do "cloud" anything. I have and own ( ) all the software I can ever want and need and it runs on my computer. For freee... I dont do ads, "free" software, nag screens, anything that auto updates or phones hom or "AI"... and my CPU sits at 0% and never moves from that unless I decide to do something. Likewise no MS browsers, no Chrome , no and a good VPN and adblockers and alternative DNS servers and hosts file...

I dont even have a utube login. Hell my utube doesent even have a youtube logo! Never mind all their junk. My bank, github, ebay and amazon and this site is about it. And there are ways to use, watch, download, everything!

[Burgerman]

Regarding things like chair programmers, and OEM or very advanced level programmers, these things should be available for ANY chair or control system as long as you can sign a disclaimer that says that if you die, injure yourself, or others, and accept that you just voided your warranty then it YOUR OWN RESPONSIBILITY.

Same with Precscriptions.

Same with anything. I can buy go faster stuff for bikes and cars easily. I Myself used to sell anyone that wanted it high power nitrous systems to bolt onto their cars or bikes. The order always included a simple disclaimer that they had to fill in and sign. So they couldnt say they were not warned. Many blew up engines, flipped bikes upside down, etc. These people simply accepted the responsibility. This should be a basic human right. Why should I be dragged down to the level of the weakest link / others?

[Raro]

The problem is that not everyone is qualified to do certain things. Everything has two points of view because, for example, if someone who sold you nitrous equipment and declared themselves responsible harmed or even killed someone on a whim, their declaration of responsibility is of little use.

[Burgerman]

The problem is that not everyone is qualified to do certain things. Everything has two points of view because, for example, if someone who sold you nitrous equipment and declared themselves responsible harmed or even killed someone on a whim, their declaration of responsibility is of little use.

But it is. They cant sue me as they accepted responsibility for their own actions. At which point all responsibiity for deth, destruction, law breaking, etc becomes THEIR responsibility.

For e.g I can but RC equipment, model planes, etc that do not comply with EU law. If I use them that is my responsibility. Not the seller.

In the same way I can buy a V8 (I did) race engine parts for it that dont comply with the environmentalis rules (I did) fit into a 4 cylinder car of a completely different brand (I did) and then the following applies.
I can drive it OFF ROAD without it being anyones business. Either safety nazis, environmentalists nazis, road laws, insurance, etc. All my own business.
Or
I can get an engineers report, insure it, MOT it, change the registration documents, and drive it on the road. Its now a vehicle with 5x as much power that it was designed for. All the parts sold to me to create it or the parts that were custom built for me, etc become MY resonsibility. If I kill someone I get sued. Not the parts or car supplier.
Theres no car "prescription" needed to get a V8 engine, nitrous, the hundreds of custom parts needed to fit it etc. You can rebuild your own brakes on your car. You can build your own house. You can start a company and manufacture whatever you want.

The whole prescription thing is a joke. Ifsomeone wants to buy drugs that does not know what they are doing thats THEIR OWN choice and responsibility. Not the state. The same as the programmers for a powerchair. Even more so, because the so called experts we are forced to use dont have a clue or actively argue with you and refuse. If they did know anything we would all have properly configured chairs running 230Ah lithium with suspension that works and tubeless tyres and more. But we have to suffer the result of a controlled , legislated, non free market system. That results in the worst of all worlds with little choice (rear drive in the US??) crazy pricing, few options, almost zero user programability. And terrible service.

As it is I now routinely get my own antibiotics for bladdr infections, and everything ele from illegal online suppliers. Because its damned near impossible to get them locally/legally because we are treated like children. Forced to rely on the slow, incompetant system. Yet in the free market I can buy nitrous... Aftermarket turbos, V8s and fit them to any custom built car/bik I choose. And the salesman is only too pleased to help! £££.

Its not the states job to protect you from your own choices. It is the states job to protect others from those choices within reason. But they even get that wrong.

[Raro]

It is the states job to protect others from those choices within reason.

and that's what they do but what's the fair point?

[Burgerman]

Well me programming my my chair to steer properly does not endanger anyone else does it?

Likewise buying the scabies cure without 3 weeks or apointments and prescriptions attempting to make me jump through hoops and using external pastes that dont work first hurts who other than me? Metformin for blood sugar, another one. Why do I have to fight the system and be refused?

Non of this urts other people. Its just govenment overeach and infantilising the adult population.

If other adults that dont know what they are doing choose against advice to do this too then thats THEIR own choice. Sick to death with the useless system treating me like a child..

[Raro]

Well me programming my my chair to steer properly does not endanger anyone else does it?

You might be a dangerous madman on wheels.
No, seriously. I suppose that if you have sugar problems, they will prescribe you some medication, but it is another thing whether it is the one you want or the one that works for you. There are many people who have used Metformin to lose weight... that is also their problem.

[Burgerman]

Whose problem?

[Raro]

of the one who buys it and takes it for what it is not indicated for, for reasons like that, medications cannot be bought without a prescription.