PINNED - 230Ah (245Ah certified) A grade cells Amy, Docan

[shirley_hkg]

They won't go anywhere if your Bounder died.

[Burgerman]

According to Bounder themselves, box is 290 x 375 x 304. It'd be snug but it'd fit. Not sure if I trust them tho. It seems oversized for grp 24. I don't want to pay $500 for it to not fit.

Some bounders have a grp27 batter box fitted. They look like they are taking a dump at the rear with the batt sticking out the back even more than normal. Thats a longer box than 24s.

Which is why:

Postby Burgerman » Sun Oct 26, 2025 5:18 am
No. Well it might, but MEASURE VERY CAREFULLY.

[Scooterman]

It's a good idea the user being able to temporarily switch off the annoying clicking brake

Looks like your van BM.


youtu.be/UKD5pO47b-A

[Burgerman]

Thats a newer version than mine.

[Burgerman]

Battery box on bounders sticks out the back looking pretty ugly. The bigger one sticks out even more presumably.

Like this?

[emilevirus]

I ordered the Bounder Plus with long base so I might have grp 27 box. Will confirm with the guy tmrw. If so, I'll order 314ah.

[Burgerman]

What batts does it have now?
Theres a clue! If they are 27s then it must be the big box...
If 24s and theres space remaining, same thing.

[emilevirus]

What batts does it have now?
Theres a clue! If they are 27s then it must be the big box...
If 24s and theres space remaining, same thing.

Don't know. I just ordered it without batteries. Will get it by december. I called them and the group 24 box is 11.43" x 14.80" x ~12" high which should fit.
Anyway, ordered 8x 314ah. $512 shipped. Hopefully it fits!

[ex-Gooserider]

Flip side - running the ancient 90Ah (6s x15Ah) Headway cell pack I just put in my admittedly weedy Jazzy, I'm charging every 10-14 days and putting in 50-65Ah per the PL-8....

I'd be worried running the 230Ah pack because I'd never remember to charge it every couple of months...

ex-Gooserider

[emilevirus]

Wow.. After my order, they received 340Ah cells (real capacity 365+Ah) the SAME size as a 280Ah. It's INSANE. You could fit 365Ah in a grp 24 box.

[Burgerman]

To fit a grp 24 box it must be 54mm thick max.

[emilevirus]

According to my measurements, it should fit. Will see when I receive them in about 2 months.

[Burgerman]

Take a look here:

A GRP 24 is 210mm inc terminals tall maximum (190 in practice).
And 168mm wide. And 260mm long.

And usually fitted side by side.

Giving this as the only possible arangement that will fit a 160 or 230Ah (244Ah) cells x 8.

There isnt another arangement that fits.

[wchl25]

Docan USA in Texas has the 230 ah cells in stock so I am thinking about getting them. I need my frontier to have a greater range for hunting and camping.

I have a few questions about switching over to the lithium cells. I think I'm going to run without a bms, I have a zxd for a power supply and a Junsi X8 hobby charger to charge them.

First question is how do you accurately keep an eye on the battery level so you know when you are getting low? I doubt the gage on the control will be of much help. Is there some sort of external gage that could be hooked up and mounted somewhere?

Second question, is there anything special that needs to be done before assembling the pack? Pre charging, soaking, ect....

Third question, What charge settings should I be using in the charger? I've never used it for these type of cells or that much power.

Thanks for any suggestions.

[ex-Gooserider]

You can mount a low cost digital volt meter anywhere on the chair or even just make a quick checker by attaching it to an XLR plug and sticking it into the charge socket on your joystick. If you want to get fancier you can wire a hobbyist LiPo-pack 'cell checker' into the same type plug you use for your balance wiring and stick that in for checking every so often.

If using a volt meter, you are less concerned with the actual voltage as you are with watching how it changes when you maneuver in the chair, especially starts, stops, hard turns, etc. When you are fully charged it will hardly change at all, and if it does, it pops right back up to the previous value. As you discharge it starts to change more when you hit the juice and take a bit longer to come back. If you start getting very low, you might start dropping a LED on your joystick power indicator - if you see that, charge ASAP...

However you will rapidly develop a 'feel' for how much power you have and stop worrying about it - if I was going on a hunting / camping trip I'd make sure I was fully charged before I left and just not worry about it, as the pack will last FAR longer than you do... As a comparison - granted it's a weedy chair, but when my Odyssey rebrand batteries were brand new, and in my normal use, I would be dropping LED's by the end of the day. Similar use on my 90Ah Headway pack, I'm going 10-14 DAYS between charges, and putting back 60-70Ah...

Not familiar w/ the Junsi charger, but on my PL/8 I'm charging at about 25A if the power supply can put out enough juice... In the US, the ZXD we love can only do 25A on 110VAC (you get the 50A it does elsewhere if you can manage a 220V hookup) The 230Ah cells have a lower C-rating than mine, so I think you still want to charge at about that rate... In practice you probably want to charge at the maximum rate the charger can put out...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

As above.

But I will comment anyway!

Docan USA in Texas has the 230 ah cells in stock so I am thinking about getting them. I need my frontier to have a greater range for hunting and camping.

Get them while you can...

I have a few questions about switching over to the lithium cells. I think I'm going to run without a bms, I have a zxd for a power supply and a Junsi X8 hobby charger to charge them.

All good.

First question is how do you accurately keep an eye on the battery level so you know when you are getting low? I doubt the gage on the control will be of much help. Is there some sort of external gage that could be hooked up and mounted somewhere?

After config, and setup and a little use then you will soon see that you go about a week of normal use before you need worry about looking at a guage. Thats the point of fitting enough battery in the forst place. If you see a couple of lights out on the controller you might want to charge it or at least look at the levels with a cheap battery level gauge that shows cell voltages.

If its 3V you are done. After that theres not much left and going further will very rapidly drop the cell voltage lower than the recommended 2.50V lower limit.
See my cheap meter that I plug in and check if unsure. Everything from hobby batts to chairs...
Amazon, hobby shops, eBay etc
https://www.isdt.co/bg-8s-2.html?lang=en
I keep one in a bag with phone, keys, money strapped to my knee. But you wont use it after you work out how hard it is to use up a big lithium battery.

Second question, is there anything special that needs to be done before assembling the pack? Pre charging, soaking, ect....

Just charge each cell full. Individually as a 1S cell. So that thee pack will be reasonably rapid to balance once assembled.

Third question, What charge settings should I be using in the charger? I've never used it for these type of cells or that much power.

As much power as the charger or the power supply is happy with really.
Remember that with a 244Ah capable battery you might need to actually replace 230Ah even if theres still 15Ah remaining. Presumably you wont often discharge them that far though. If you do, and you charge at say 30A then thats going to take 8 solid hours plus a little more to balance and for the slower CV part. So say 9 hours to be safe.

So 30A is OK even if the pack is very discharged.
Even 20 is OK as most of the time you will not be returning that much!
So you can charge at whatever rate that the situation and time available seems to make sense.

So set say:
30A
3.550V
And unlike the PL8 where we can choose a termination current like say 800mA I dont think that you can do that on the Junsi chargers. At least you couldnt. It may be possible now. Not sure.
If not then its set as a percentage of the CHARGER AMPS. Which gets a bit more complicated.
Lets say you want 800mA termination. And it will be something similar to this.
You set say 30A charge. And working out how to get 800mA is harder. So 10% of 30A would be 3A. So 2.5% of 30A would be almost perfect at 0.75A.

So set that as the termination "percentage" of the charge rate.
Also set it to max balance current possible.
Set to never start balance before or lower than 3.450 to 3.500V per cell.
And never to end charge before this balance has been achieved regardless of termination current.

Now charge and use. First charge will take a while to fully balance everything up.
And charge and use a couple of times more but watch the charge end carefully.
Heres what should happen. It should reach 3.550V and all cells should reach that same point, and this is called CV (Constant Current stage or absorption for retards) All cells will be balanced and at CV.
And it will have been this way for 15 to 30 mins. Then charge will (should) end.

If CV takes longer than 30 mins post balance being achieved, then increase the terminaton current. By changing that % value to a bigger figure. If it is at CV for LESS than 15 mins, post balance, then set a smaller percentage. This is not critical. So set this in use by small tweaks over time. Heres the issue. When you change that charge Amps, then this means that percentage figure is now wrong... Thats why the PL8 where you can just set say 800mA instead was better...

So once you get it sorted dont change the charge current unless you save it as a different profile and with a different % termination to match.

Did that help!

[wchl25]

Yes that was very helpful, thank you for the lesson BG... I appreciate it.

The cells are supposed to be here tomorrow. Unfortunately I won't get the balance cable until Monday.

Do you use the connection bars that come with the cells, or do you make your own?

Also, this pack is for my frontier which is not my daily driver. I only use it for weekend adventures like hunting, camping, etc...

I'm assuming I need to store the batteries at 50% SOC like my hobby batteries? How long are they OK to sit fully charged? Any good suggestions on how to discharge them if I don't run them down far enough from driving?

[Burgerman]

Cell connectors?
Ring terminals soldered and silicone cable loops.

Also, this pack is for my frontier which is not my daily driver. I only use it for weekend adventures like hunting, camping, etc...
I'm assuming I need to store the batteries at 50% SOC like my hobby batteries? How long are they OK to sit fully charged? Any good suggestions on how to discharge them if I don't run them down far enough from driving?

With all lithium cells they love to be neither empty or full. With LiFePO4 that last around 7x longer than laptop/phone type lithium, then it becomes less important. How long? Well the less time they spend full or empty the better! There is no point where its OK. Its all a matter of percentage... The less time they sit full the better. How much does this matter? Too many factors to consider.

I charge it when I want to use it at 40A. And not always to 100%. If it is full or nearly full and I want to store it for a few weeks then I set the PL8 to dischage it and give it say overnight to a day. If in a hurry I have a 40A discharger/heater with a computer fan in it. Or plug in a 24V AC inverter and connect a fan heater! All by anderson.

[wchl25]

So the cell connectors that come with them are inadequate? What gauge wire do you use I'm assuming about eight?

[shirley_hkg]

Copper bar as inter connection is too rigid.

In wheelchair application we want it flexible to allow vibration amongst cells. Take Burgerman's advice.

Yes, 8awg is good.

2 12v 50w halogen bulbs in series will drain @4A. Leave them overnight will be enough.

[wchl25]

So I have everything soldered up and ready to go. But I have a newbie question, the balance lead I bought has 8 Black wires and one red one. What order do they go in? I tried looking for a wiring diagram but couldn't find one.

[ex-Gooserider]

I don't know your charger, but to figure it out, look in the charger docs (or even on the charger) and see what the order of pins is on the balance plug socket, and then see which wire is the red one when you plug in the cable. The red wire SHOULD be Pin #1 (or possibly pin #9) and go to the + on Cell 8 of the pack, the other black wires will go in order from the connector to each of the other cells, so that the one farthest from the red wire will go to the - of cell 1....

Look for some of the other diagrams of how the balance wiring is set up. It should also be documented in your charger manual (I know it is on the PL8)

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Look at the charger. The negative end of the balance connector.

They are wired the same across all my hobby stuff, chairs etc.

The first wire is the same negative as the main charge cable.
So wire 1 is negative. It goes on the end negative of the pack. And that is cell one.
Wire 2 is next to it, and it goes to the other end of that same cell one.
Now, each wire in turn goes to the next postive on cell 2, 3, 4 etc.

You have 9 balance wires. So they go in turn to:
1. Cell1-NEG
2. Cell1-POS
3. Cell2-POS
4. Cell3-POS
5. Cell4-POS
ETC
When you get to
Wire 9. Cell8-positive thats it!

You are done!

Below 2S, 3S, 4S, Obviously 5, 6, 7, 8, same but more.

Always 1 more wire than cell count.
On your plug I do not know if that wire marks the neg or the pos end. If red its likely pos. Dont count on it! You need to check the connector.

[Burgerman]

the balance lead I bought has 8 Black wires and one red one. What order

Red to the 24V pos.
All the rest to each cells negative end in sequence... But check on the charger as the red wire may not be at the pos end on your cable. I saw a couple that were not as expected.

[shirley_hkg]

But I have a newbie question, the balance lead I bought has 8 Black wires and one red one. What order do they go in? I tried looking for a wiring diagram but couldn't find one.

https://share.google/EwJQf1yzHlpWHMmQV

[wchl25]

The red wire is in the #9 position at the positive end of the port.

So I'm assuming that it goes on the positive side of cell #8?

[Burgerman]

Yes. Since its 8S.

Its easier to to always work the other way around and start with cell 1.
So the wire on the extreme left goes to the neg on cell 1. The same as the negative on the charger.
Then each wire in step, goes to each positive in a row.

The first wire is alwys the neg on cell 1. At the 0V end of the battery. Because working that way around is mentally easier than starting att cell 8 and going backwards.

[wchl25]

Thanks, that's what I thought it would be but wanted to make sure.

Can I use the zxd to charge the initially before assembly? or should I use the Junsi?

I don't want to fully charge them right away because I'm not sure how soon they will get used, so I was thinking like just even them at 3.2 so they are close for future balancing.

If I use the zxd what settings should I use?

[Burgerman]

Below 3.45V which is 99% full, you cant balance them or get close to balancing them by voltage.

So best bet, leave them at the voltages they arrived with, then assemble the pack. When you are ready to use this pack set the ZXD to 3.550V and use some substantial jump wires connect to cell 1, and charge that at say 20A until 0.8A is reached and set the PL8 to stop at this point. Then do the same with 2, 3, 4 etc. One at a time.

Then charge as a group of 8 with whatever you intend to use long term. And fit.

[emilevirus]

But they should be shipped balanced. Last time I didn't bother and only took an hour to balance.