PINNED - PROGRAMMING - Make it steer! R-Net + others

[segreen]

Thanks... Got it working properly now. Just need to fine tune the speeds etc.

Thanks again.

[Guma]

Hello everybody! Please tell me, if I set all the values in the settings of my new Permobil F5 stroller to the same as in my old Permobil C400 stroller, will it be controlled as well? Driving my Permobil C400 is perfect for me in everything. There is one day access to the OEM Generic programmer 6.1.2 program and the Rnet key level (b) for setting up the new Permobil F5 stroller, so I would not like to waste time. Remote control for Permobil C400 PG-DRIVE J3095400 for Permobil F5 CJSM2.
If not, please tell me which values are better to set. Thank you.

[Burgerman]

Hello everybody! Please tell me, if I set all the values in the settings of my new Permobil F5 stroller to the same as in my old Permobil C400 stroller, will it be controlled as well?

It WOULD if your new chair wasnt an unstable design requiring a gyro to make it go in a straight line. Theres no setting that you can make that will make a front drive chair steer properly like a mid or rear drive chair. No matter what settings you choose.

And:
1. The new permobils are locked down. Theres no way to get user access to set everything properly enyway and a normal R-Net programmer wont work.
2. They are controlled and set up completely differently by permobils own algo that is used with permobils own gyro.

Driving my Permobil C400 is perfect for me in everything. There is one day access to the OEM Generic programmer 6.1.2 program and the Rnet key level (b) for setting up the new Permobil F5 stroller, so I would not like to waste time.

The stock OEM programmer for permobils wont work.
It has a different power module design, 6 pins on some bus cables, etc. Unless you are LUCKY and they are sending you the old version. Even then it cant be programmed and wont respond the same way your current chair does. The gyro that the front drive chair uses stops thai.

Remote control for Permobil C400 PG-DRIVE J3095400 for Permobil F5 CJSM2.
If not, please tell me which values are better to set. Thank you.

I have tried to make the front drive permobils steer. I am unable. They have very specific programming designed to suit their own algorythm and own gyro system. It appears in a different place in the menus. And it doesent behave as you would expect. Its configured in a way to try and make a front drive chair that is a naturally unstable platform drive. I dont know what to say that can help you.

[Guma]

The stock OEM programmer for permobils wont work.
It has a different power module design, 6 pins on some bus cables, etc. Unless you are LUCKY and they are sending you the old version. Even then it cant be programmed and wont respond the same way your current chair does. The gyro that the front drive chair uses stops thai.

There is an access level! They've already increased my speed on it. But when I got into it today, I realized that the joystick is very sensitive and it twitches because of this, as well as poorly crossing the threshold, reacts poorly to turns, acceleration and braking. I've arranged for them to come to me tomorrow and try to set it up! My Permobil C400 is also front-wheel drive, and it drives perfectly for me, so I thought that its set values in the settings might be suitable for the F5. Thank you very much for the explanation!

[Burgerman]

Well then it may be that those settings will work on the new chair.

But trust me you have no idea how much better things could be!
Problem 1.
In order to configure a chair to actually steer properly you would need to throw away the gyro. That allows the power module to be programmed as per a normal R-Net powerchair. You cant do that as it will want to swap ends as you speed up.

Then you would need to use an OEM version to remove a few of the walls that are set up that prevent you setting the turn acceleration, minimum turn acceleration up high enough. So the controls are always delayed and overshoot. And the techs do not have access to that as far as I know. At best they get someone else to make some changes and then send a new settings file to them.

Best bet is to read CAREFULLY the first few posts of this thread. Although much of it makes no sense on front drve.

[ex-Gooserider]

I would also point out that if the photos Guma posted were the joysticks of the two chairs then you have two entirely different control systems. One photo, I'm guessing from the C400, is a Pilot+ joystick, and the other is Permobil's modified R-Net Joystick....

While Pilot+ and R-Net were both made by P&G, they are totally and completely different electronic systems, that are configured using different cables and software and are not in anyway interchangeable other than by swapping over EVERYTHING between the batteries and the motors (and any actuators)

How much the settings on the C-400 will be able to get copied over to the new chair is marginal at best - the R-net hardware has a lot more setting options, and many are slightly different, even before trying to deal with the way Permobil has diddled it...

I could be wrong, but I suspect that your C-400 was not locked down or changed from standard Pilot+ hardware to any great degree. I haven't ever heard of a "Gyro Module" for Pilot+, but it does have a setting in the programming software for FWD or RWD which slightly changes how a char handles...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

How much the settings on the C-400 will be able to get copied over to the new chair is marginal at best - the R-net hardware has a lot more setting options, and many are slightly different, even before trying to deal with the way Permobil has diddled it...

The basic settings in SPEED section, do cross from one to the other pretty well. I did that a lot. I changed many chairs from pilot plus to r-net.
Same with compensation and brake settings etc. I use the exact same settings here on both. The R-Net is very slightly "sharper" on turn speeds and forward acceleration. Turn accelerations and decelerations are pretty much the same. Probably on purpose.

But yes there are many hundreds of additional settings that exist in r-net systems. And the speed settings in anything with permobils gyro will not work! And will in fact royally screw it up.

[alex1304]

Could you please tell me how to save a specific branch, for example “Motor”, into an Rnss file in the R-net Programmer software?

[Burgerman]

Menu at top bar.
Show tick boxes.

Unselect all.

Select the changes you want only.
Save...

Open with dealer, send to chair...

Be VERY careful wat you change or select. For e.g incorrect motor compensation can make a chair run away and it cannot be stopped... Breaking legs or under a bus.

[alex1304]

Menu at top bar.
Show tick boxes.

Unselect all.

Select the changes you want only.
Save...

Open with dealer, send to chair...

Be VERY careful wat you change or select. For e.g incorrect motor compensation can make a chair run away and it cannot be stopped... Breaking legs or under a bus.

Thank you, I will be very careful with the settings of my wheelchair.

[emilevirus]

When loading a OEM file into a controller, does it matter which software I use? Like I use R-net generic dealer but should I use sunrise dealer? (controller comes from a Quickie) Also, I read that if loading a file from another controller it can brick it. If I have 2 Quickie controllers can I load the same file on both or will it brick?

[Burgerman]

If someone has edited the settings file with OEM software via the "workaround" that file is probably only going to let you upload to the chair with the dealer version as you are using a dealer dongle. Dont think the "brand" matters. But the actual firmware on the chairs power module, might tell you that it cant proceed. All my power modules allowed this so far without issues. Inc one thats permobil*

*Cant garantee that all permobil ones will work as they have different firmware that allows the ICS and the extra permobil stuff like their stability system (gyro) drive algo and speeds settings added too. There seems to be a lot of different firmwares on permobils. But you can but test!
I cant test the dealer dongle thing now as I only have OEM. But I tested all this years ago and it was all true then.

Also, I read that if loading a file from another controller it can brick it. If I have 2 Quickie controllers can I load the same file on both or will it brick?

I do that all the time.
If the settings file has added stuff, like permobils do for thair own branded parts the stock Rnet modules firmware wont understand it and will refuse to load or give errors. It wont brick anything.

But while you can do this you *must* set things like power levels, (so 90A and 120A modules are different) and brake voltages, and motor reversal settings, swap motor settings, motor compensation, CORRECTLY so copy those from the chair. Seating will behave incorrectly unless the same settings exist on both too.

If these chairs are the same or similar (I use the same settings file on the SALSA and on the Q700R) for e.g. then it works on both. Because they both use the same seating setup, same 120A controller, both 6mph 4 pole linix, but I have to set SWAP MOTORS the other way around. Thats all.

The SAFEST way, is to take the profile from the chair, change all the settings to match the other profile, and then reload it and keep 2 files.

[fordragon88]

Where can I download software for programming the Permobil F5? I also have a programmer.
How can I set it up so that the wheelchair accelerates smoothly without jerking when starting? My everyday wheelchair currently has a speed limit of 3 mph. I want to change these settings.

[Burgerman]

PM me...

[fordragon88]

PM me...

I'm trying to send you a message, but I get this message. The requested users to be added do not exist.
https://ibb.co/R4HqCM12

[Burgerman]

No idea what you are doing. I will PM you.