Where to find PGDT programmer software

[falco peregrinus]

Ok, try again. This time I remembered that you said I had to convert it to a ZIP file first.

newVSI.zip

default NEW VSI .prg file from PGDT

(652 Bytes) Downloaded 585 times

Ah, this looks better.
Falco

[woodygb]

LOL ..just had to delete my instructions post.

[woodygb]

Not as yet a solution but interesting.

Here's a rename of the OEM tag file for a VSI ... UNZIP and upload it into the DEALER VERSION directory ... replacing the dealer tag file ..if needed rename it with the version number your running e.g alter A-10.1.0 to match the other TAG files ... see if you get the OEM settings when opening a VSI.prg ( not new ) with the dealer version.

VSI Iss A-10.1.0.zip

(6.9 KiB) Downloaded 662 times

[woodygb]

I believe that I now have a solution.

Just need a couple of beta testers... private message me with a email addy and I'll pass on the beta solution for testing.

success.png (165.65 KiB) Viewed 17238 times

[woodygb]

Just a note to say that despite the version saying Dealer it is ... or appears now to be ... Access level C = Manufacturer level.

[falco peregrinus]

Hi Woody. Thanks for all the work you've put in.
I don't have a copy of any Dealer version of Mobility PC Programmer - only v8.0.16 of OEM, and v11.3.3 and v14.4.3 of Manufacturing Service. I bought the cable on it's own, without any software, (with a New VSI) by quoting the part numbers to a PGDT agent and requesting a quote. It was a good price (compared to ordering directly from PGDT themselves, who were going to charge me $100 freight on top of the purchase price), so I went ahead and bought them.
By the way, I notice that "success.png" does not display at least some parameters which are accessible ony with the OEM programmer. For example, "Front Drive Rate", which is critical for me because the default is 0 and I need it at 80. It changes the overall performance characteristics of the chair dramatically when it is not set correctly for the particular chair. (There are probably others as well, but that's the one that sticks in my mind as being essential at the moment.)
Thanks for all the help.
Falco.

[Burgerman]

Just a note to say that despite the version saying Dealer it is ... or appears now to be ... Access level C = Manufacturer level.

Actually that's neither A, or C.
Its B, which is engineering level. In between.

[woodygb]

For example, "Front Drive Rate", which is critical for me because the default is 0 and I need it at 80.

Third one down in GENERAL?

driverate.png (168.12 KiB) Viewed 17198 times

[woodygb]

On your NEWVSI there are 7 Factory settings that aren't accessible ..they're below Tremor damping ..which can't be scrolled passed.

Abs Forward Acceleration
Abs Forward Deceleration
Abs Turn Acceleration
Abs Turn Deceleration
Abs Min Power
Abs Forward Speed
Abs Reverse Speed
Abs Turn Speed
These are all set at 100% MAX apart from Abs Min Power that is set at 100% Min.

[falco peregrinus]

Great! This is looking really promising! If they are the only parameters that your solution can't change, and those parameters are at the settings that we want anyway, then your solution achieves all that is required! Fantastic!
Falco

[woodygb]

You can actually print out ALL the settings.

Update me once you managed to have a play.

[Burgerman]

The ABS settings are just walls, that will not let any of the DEALER or ENGINEERING programmers exceed. So set to 100 they allow full range adjustments anyway.

[falco peregrinus]

Hi Woody. Your solution for New VSI looks good. I created the software environment you specified, imported the New VSI .PRG that I had read off the New VSI when I first got it from PGDT (ie, in it's manufacturing default state), changed the settings to match my old VSI settings, saved the .PRG, printed it off, imported the saved .PRG into the pristine, stock-standard, as-downloaded-from-PGDT ver 14.4.3 Manufacturing Service, printed it off, and compared the two printouts. They were identical - so all evidence is that the .PRG that your solution creates is 100% satisfactory in all respects. Tomorrow I hope to plug the New VSI into my wheelchair and upload the new program to it, as a final test. But at the moment everything looks perfect. Your solution is Engineering level, not OEM, but that doesn't matter because the only parameters that Engineering Level can't change are already set to the settings that we want them at in the default state. If someone with a New VSI wants to reprogram their New VSI and discovers that the Factory Settings on their controller are not set to 100%, all they have to do is download the default New VSI .prg that I uploaded to this thread a few days ago, reconfigure it to suit themselves, then download the new .PRG to their controller. So an OEM version that can handle New VSI is unnecessary - an Engineering version will suffice just fine.
Enormous thanks for your help.
Falco.

[Burgerman]

You said that like it was simple

MOST people will struggle. Most cant even get windows to go "active"...

On my machines, some USBs work, others no way ever. Only ONE driver works (win 7 64bit) 3.2.0.0, and the fight to make windows actually use this one is not always easy! It tries to use a newer one. If you let it. And then there's ports. Only com 7 will work on my desktop machine, com 8 on my laptop.

Get ALL the above right and it works fine. But any one wrong and no chance!

But that said, I can always get this working with woody's cable on all machines after the "fight"...

[falco peregrinus]

I can relate to every word you say. Getting computers set up to work perfectly is not easy or quick - which is why people who do it for a living are paid such a high hourly rate (if they are good at what they do). Sometimes really weird problems are very difficult to track down. Prime suspects for weird problems are mismatched or insufficiently fast memory, and faulty power supplies.
You mention 64 bit in your post. Perhaps that is contributing to your problems. Although my hardware is 64 bit capable, I have always deliberately stuck to installing 32 bit operating systems on it, because 32 bit drivers are more readily available than 64 bit. There's countless forum posts on the internet where people have given up on 64 bit operating systems and reverted to 32 bit.
As for "some USBs work, others no way ever", the first thing I think of is your power supply. If it's not delivering the correct voltage on the +5V line to the USB port at all times, then some USBs will not work correctly. One of my own PCs has had a long history of USB problems over the last few years - sometimes the USB devices that depended upon power from the PC would work, and sometimes not - as well as some other strange and intermittent faults. Tonight I finally tracked down the culprit - a faulty power supply that couldn't deliver full rated output at spec voltage under load. Over the last thirty years I suppose I've had the task of fixing close on a dozen PCs with weird problems, where the cause turned out to be a faulty power supply.
Falco

[woodygb]

Your solution is Engineering level, not OEM,

What level the programmer is that I've knocked up is probably a moot point .... But as there are only 3 official levels ... now 4 with the NEW totally useless Service level.

PCPa Dealer Version (Wheelchair and Scooter)
PCPb OEM Version (Wheelchair and Scooter)
PCPc Manufacturing Version (Wheelchair and Scooter)

... I'm going to stick with calling it OEM.

[Burgerman]

The only problem is that anyone with fences set up, and there's a good few like this (the ABS settings) will not be able to get past them.

As for power supplies, I have a good few PCs, and they are all using high end £130 power supplies, water cooled etc and a new laptop with a quad core/8gb ram/solid state disk.

All have desktops 8gb or 12gb of memory, and so non of my computers can really use 32 bit stuff any longer. I went 64bit in the days of xp64. Then vista64, then win7 64 bit... Never had a problem and my machines are on and abused 24 /7 for years.

The USBs are different though. Some USB3, some are one chipset and others another. Some add on cards, and so on. They are not all equal. And there's a mountain of serial ports devices and software on my PCs. From digital servo testers, 3 USB / Bluetooth chargers, RC transmitter programming tools, and 1001 other things. And its all a bit of a juggling act!

But every time someone tells me they cannot get it to work (also Hyperion charger USB/serial) I fix it. Sometimes a fight, but I always manage it one way or another. Never failed yet!

[woodygb]

The only problem is that anyone with fences set up, and there's a good few like this (the ABS settings) will not be able to get past them.

...The NEWVSI is the only one that presented any problem and required this work around solution.
As Falco say's it's just a matter of ..IF REQUIRED ( print all the parameters and see first ..this also gives a reference for restoring the original parameters )...downloading his NEWVSI prg file that has the ABS set already at max.

[falco peregrinus]

Woody, I'm going to call your solution 100% successful! I now have a programmed New VSI, thank you! I used your solution to edit a .PRG file downloaded from the New VSI using the freebie PGDT Manufacturing Service software v 14.4.3 that I downloaded from their website, that contained the default, as-supplied-by-PGDT configuration, then saved the .PRG file containing the edited configuration to disk. I printed it off using the freebie Manufacturing Service v14.4.3, and the printout looked good. I then downloaded that file to the NewVSI using the freebie Manufacturing Service v14.4.3, then uploaded it back again from the controller and saved the controller configuration under a different file name. I then printed off the configuration that I downloaded to the New VSI, and the configuration that I uploaded back from the New VSI, and they were identical. All configuration settings were set exactly as I needed them. Your solution is 100% successful, and solves all problems. Thank you.
Falco.

[falco peregrinus]

Here is a list of sources, files, and links of relevance to PGDT controller programming that I have found useful, that others working with PGDT equipment may also find useful:
(1) The latest version of Mobility PC Programmer (Manufacturer Service/ Standard version). It can't change anything, but it can print out ALL configuration details (which is quite useful), and can transfer the program parameters from one PGDT controller to another of identical model. At time of writing, current version is v14.4.3. You can download it for free from:
http://support.pgdt.com/Remote-Service-Center/Programmers.aspx
(2) Version 8.0.16 of OEM Mobility PC Programmer is on the internet and is downloadable. See earlier listing in this thread for one of many links on the internet that will get you it. Ver 8 is a bit ancient now, and it doesn't know about the latest PGDT programmers (New VSI, for example), but for older controllers (eg, VSI), it's the bee's knee's to solve all your programming problems.
(3) Instructions to make your own USB cable to connect a PGDT controller to a laptop are provided in an earlier post in this thread. Thank you Woody. Look for an image of a cable in pieces, with explanatory text. The correct/ latest/ best version, from all reports, is the version that includes a diode. You can build one for yourself, or buy the genuine cable from PGDT, or pay even more to buy one of the PGDT Mobility Programmers (which include a cable with the software). You can get the part number for the cable from the PGDT support website cited above, and if you don't live in the UK or the United States, you can buy it from that website too. Watch the freight charge though - PGDT have got a HUGE minimum overseas freight charge! (AU$100)
(4) Here are a few manuals that I have found useful at times to understand the PGDT controllers configuration parameters. There is heaps of invaluable information on programming PGDT controllers elsewhere on this website too, thanks to Burgerman and others. A thorough search will find some real gems. Burgerman especially has produced some good translations of PGDT TechSpeak into plain English. The later PGDT documentation is rather more explanatory and meaningful than the older PGDT documents. You don't need the documentation for your particular controller - good documentation for any PGDT controller will suffice for solving most problems, because most controllers have pretty much the same configuration parameters, with only minor differences between controllers. (Note too that some of these documents provide very useful information for rewiring your wheelchair, and for reprogramming the controller to suit the new wiring, or to suit new motors.)
Unfortunately I didn't note the URL where I found these, but if you search Google for:
Crystal(Tech).pdf
Harrier Range Technical Manual.pdf
MOOVER95_FLEX_SM_DK_en_19102001_CAP8.pdf
MPV5-Power-Chair-Manual[1].pdf
PC Electronic_Manual.pdf
PG-Drives-VR2-Technical-Manual_SK77898-04.pdf
pgdt_vr2_manual_SK77898-03.pdf
Pilot+_SK74328$2_full.pdf
pilot manual
PP1a Technical Manual - SK73747-11.pdf
Qtronix Programmer - [Present Unit]
VR2 Programming Settings - Sunrise Education & Training
then you should find most of them. Of particular value are the VR2 manuals.
(5) If you want to take a look at the default configuration of a New VSI, as delivered by PGDT before the wheelchair manufacturer reconfigures it to what they think best, there's a copy of that (as a .PRG file) a little earlier in this thread too. (You can print it off with the latest version of Mobility PC Programmer (Manufacturing Service) that I provided a link for earlier in this post.)
Falco.

[woodygb]

The latest version of Mobility PC Programmer (Manufacturer Service/ Standard version). It can't change anything, but it can print out ALL configuration details

...Ummmm would you check that for me ...as my installed v14.4.3 hasn't got a print option.

I can however save as a CSV file ..and view the parameters in Excel.

[falco peregrinus]

Hi Woody.
They neglected to put it on the menu, but there is an icon for it. I've used it quite often. I didn't know about the CSV file save option - that'll be useful at times. Thanks for letting me know about that.
Falco.

[woodygb]

The PRINT menu option is removed and the Ctrl+P shortcut is disabled....but your correct the print ICON still works!

[falco peregrinus]

Has anyone ever played with Front Drive Rate on a Pride Jazzy? I haven't got around to doing so yet, but I intend to as soon as I get the chance. I've gained enormous improvement in responsiveness by configuring the other options as per the advice of Burgerman, and I'm pretty happy with the result, but I've got a suspicion I can do even better, by playing with Front Drive Rate. The Front Drive Rate setting has to match the characteristics of the wheelchair itself, so If Pride didn't get it optimal when they chose 80, then there is room for further improvement. Mine now has good responsiveness under almost all circumstances, but I think there is possibly potential for getting it even better at top speed. At top speed, I can still move the joystick some without it resulting in a change of direction. (But at least now I can do top speed without being in fear of running off the footpath, or driving someone over! Which most definitely was NOT the case before I gave up on dealers and reprogrammed it myself, in accordance with Burgerman's advice!)
If there is a way to gain still further improvement in responsiveness, then I suspect Front Drive Rate may be the way to do it. I've done everything else. On one occasion I tried the chair on Front Drive Rate of 100, and it was almost uncontrollable. You wouldn't know that I had fixed all the other parameters, it was so bad. After twenty feet I turned around and went back to the laptop and returned it to 80, which is what it was when I got it.
I've got a feeling it might be even better around 70 than it is at 80. Has anyone ever played with Front Drive Rate? Any experience I can draw upon that might save me some experimentation? Has anyone ever come up with what they think is an ideal setting for Front Drive Rate for a Pride Jazzy?
Falco

[Burgerman]

At top speed, I can still move the joystick some without it resulting in a change of direction. (But at least now I can do top speed without being in fear of running off the footpath, or driving someone over! Which most definitely was NOT the case before I gave up on dealers and reprogrammed it myself, in accordance with Burgerman's advice!)

I don't KNOW what it does. But front drive is an unstable configuration. The faster you go the worse it gets. If the chair was fast enough there is no controller or system, even closed loop ones, that can stop it spinning around completely and facing backwards. Steering at all becomes more and more over controlled as speed goes up. So as speed increases there is a 'need' for less and less "control" ... Because you cant HAVE control with front drive at speed.

[Lord Chatterley]

At top speed, I can still move the joystick some without it resulting in a change of direction. (But at least now I can do top speed without being in fear of running off the footpath, or driving someone over! Which most definitely was NOT the case before I gave up on dealers and reprogrammed it myself, in accordance with Burgerman's advice!)

I don't KNOW what it does. But front drive is an unstable configuration. The faster you go the worse it gets. If the chair was fast enough there is no controller or system, even closed loop ones, that can stop it spinning around completely and facing backwards. Steering at all becomes more and more over controlled as speed goes up. So as speed increases there is a 'need' for less and less "control" ... Because you cant HAVE control with front drive at speed.

BM, how high is 'high speed' - in you experience, how much is too much for front wheel drive?
[I have never driven a fwd for fear of hitting something and suffering forward seat-ejection.]

LC

[Lord Chatterley]

At top speed, I can still move the joystick some without it resulting in a change of direction. (But at least now I can do top speed without being in fear of running off the footpath, or driving someone over! Which most definitely was NOT the case before I gave up on dealers and reprogrammed it myself, in accordance with Burgerman's advice!)

I don't KNOW what it does. But front drive is an unstable configuration. The faster you go the worse it gets. If the chair was fast enough there is no controller or system, even closed loop ones, that can stop it spinning around completely and facing backwards. Steering at all becomes more and more over controlled as speed goes up. So as speed increases there is a 'need' for less and less "control" ... Because you cant HAVE control with front drive at speed.

BM, how high is 'high speed' - in you experience, how much is too much for front wheel drive?
[I have never driven a fwd for fear of hitting something and suffering forward seat-ejection.]

LC

[Burgerman]

They "feel" funny and lose directional stability as soon as you move forwards. Getting worse as you get faster. So all speeds.

Drive your rear drive chair in reverse, the length of a footpath near your house. Same thing. Then you will see. Its not great at any speed. And accurate steering through a gap for eg at say 3mph is impossible. Or at least with complete relaxed confidence it is...

For those that disagree, its because you have never driven a mid or rear drive chair PROPERLY PROGRAMMED so it steers like your car. Really. Like a PC mouse. Instant, totally accurate and completely predictable.

[falco peregrinus]

My spare chair is a rear-wheel-drive, and I loved it while it was my only chair, but to use it around the house I have to take the footrests off it, even though it's a small chair by any standard. It's not my primary chair because it's very power-hungry - a battery charge doesn't last anywhere near as long in it as it does in my present chair. (I think it has an electrical fault - one day I'll take the time to track it down.)
My present chair is a Pride Jazzy. I wouldn't call it a front wheel drive. I've seen chairs with the drive wheels a LOT further forward than they are on my Jazzy. I've heard the Jazzy described as a mid-wheel-drive, and I would agree. The drive wheels are just forward of the centre of gravity, so it has two anti-tip wheels at the front to catch people's ankles and bump things over and two castor wheels well behind me to drive over people's toes. Now that I've reprogrammed it in accordance with Burgerman's recommendations, it handles really well, and 99.9% of people would consider it perfect, but I think I can perhaps get it even more perfect by playing with Front Drive Rate. At anything other than top speed, it is 100% responsive. At top speed, it is sufficiently responsive to feel confident driving it at top speed on footpaths and near people, but I think I may be able to get it even better.
I've seen chairs with the drive wheels right at the front. I can see no appeal in them at all. I've driven forklifts. I've driven vehicles in reverse. My expectation of them has always matched Burgerman's description of them.
I hated mid-wheel chairs before I ended up in a chair myself, and hated them even more while my only chair was a rear wheel. But the opportunity came up to get the mid-wheel Jazzy at a really good price, so I grabbed it. They have their good points, as well as their bad. But to me, the good outweigh the bad. (In particular, manouvreability around shops and the house.) Once they're programmed correctly, they're ok. I'm a convert.
Falco

[falco peregrinus]

Thinking some more about true front wheel drive chairs. Perhaps there's something important about them that we haven't taken into account. They are not just rear-wheel-drive chairs driven backwards with the seat facing the other way, because their controllers are running a different algorithym than rear wheel drive chairs. That's why PGDT VSI, for example, has a binary configuration option of Front Wheel Drive, and a Front Drive Rate configuration option that can be set anywhere from 0 to 100. In other words, the controller can be configured to behave differently for different chairs, depending upon where the drive wheels are, and perhaps also where the centre of gravity is relative to the wheels, and perhaps what the wheelbase is, and perhaps other factors as well. Front Drive Rate, I understand, is a value that has to be set to match the characteristics of the particular wheelchair, and there are a number of characteristics that come to mind which, if changed, may require a change in Front Drive Rate in order to have the controller behave optimally. (For rear wheel drive chairs, Front Drive is set to Off/0, which I would expect to have the consequence that any value provided for Front Drive Rate is then disregarded. And I would expect that setting Front Drive Rate to 0 would have the same result as setting Front Drive to Off/0.)
So perhaps we are all being unjustifiably harsh in our criticism of front wheel drive chairs. Perhaps it's only a matter of configuring them optimally to get acceptable behaviour out of them, just as it is for rear wheel drive and mid wheel drive chairs.
Falco