Bigger hyperion

[Burgerman]

When there are more (good tested) betas I will stick links here... Hyperion keep adding and improving stuff. EG the chargers can do 12 or 24v pb batteries. Theres no reason they cant also do 36 and 48 so I asked for a firmware update to include that. It wont effect most as you dont need it! I do for my new chair... And to me, I matter!

The one above is the one you need joe as it has a few bug fixes but also some improvements to the graph screen (log screen) ... And a new tiny bug so there will be a fix for that too soon...

[Burgerman]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/hyperion.zip

Updated again. Minor. Graph enlargement refinements and menu changes.

[TwoTeasChris]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/hyperion.zip

Updated again. Minor. Graph enlargement refinements and menu changes.

Are you a beta-tester?

[Burgerman]

Sort of... I did the advice for PB battery algo, so get FW betas to test sometimes before they are public.
This one though IS a public beta of the PC SOFTWARE...

Dont worry about the beta part it works, and this just fixes a bug I found yesterday with a dissapearing graph! Anyone can download public beta software. It just takes some keeping track of. So I will post relevant updates here...

Or a direct link. Either way the important update I want is a FW update (with matching software) for 36 and 48v!

[JoeC]

I will watch here for the latest!

[Burgerman]

Or if I fail here!

This program require Firmware version 5.0 (or later) which all your EOS1420 net3 should ship with.
Visit the EOS CHARGER Firmware Update site for the newest version:
http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/pc/eosfw.htm


The newest (and often beta) Control & Data Suite program can be found here;
http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/pc/ecds-man/Installer.

[TwoTeasChris]

The instructions mention specific orders for un/plugging everything. I can see the importance of the Hyperion having a -ve connection before the USB is plugged in, so it doesn't try to route through the USB cable. But are any of the other orders critical?

I'm plugging in the PSU which is connected to the Hyperion. Then plugging in the USB, then the lead at the chair, then the other end at the Hyperion.

[Burgerman]

Not that I know of.

Anyone interested in the settings I use for Gel, (MK) and the Odyssey batteries (both 12v and 24) can just grab this config file

www.wheelchairdriver.com/settings.zip

Load it with the hyperion software and its got my normal PB settings. I deleted all the rest, so just 4 channels.

I charge at these settings almost always now...

[TwoTeasChris]

Why am I getting a flat line at zero for resistance? I thought that was something I should be measuring.

"Output capacity"
How do I make meaningful use of this?

First 'long' ride since for a few days (6 miles), so the fan on the PSU has also kicked in. What a racket! On top of the spare PC by my feet in the conservatory so not a problem. And that PC is only switched on to program the chairs now.

Can't wait to ponder over the excel spreadsheet!

I was fiddling with the wife's chair yesterday so gave the Odysseys their first parallel charge for weeks. The chair was only driven 10 metres but cc/cv was over in a few minutes! Already I can see the difference between her batts and mine just by the clock. (We need a smiley for 'jealous'.)

[Burgerman]

tHE GREEN ONE!

What use is Ah in? / out (Output capacity) Tells you exactly how many Ah you returned. Watch it as you charge. It reads Ah. Like 25.44Ah. After chage it will read 2544 since theres stil a bug here in this version - it loses the decimal...

But it shows how much you used during your trip to the park, pub, or during the day. Shows you how much hills, turning on carpet, etc costs you compared to milews of running flat out on flat runways! And if you run until you lose say 2 lights, and this figure gets smaller you can see the batteries are buggered. But if you cycle them once when new or a week old, you get a tru measure of capacity. Save graph, details, mark the battery (marker pen) and tag or name the file and later you can compare after a few months.

[Burgerman]

tHE GREEN ONE!

What use is Ah in? / out (Output capacity) Tells you exactly how many Ah you returned. Watch it as you charge. It reads Ah. Like 25.44Ah. After chage it will read 2544 since theres stil a bug here in this version - it loses the decimal...

But it shows how much you used during your trip to the park, pub, or during the day. Shows you how much hills, turning on carpet, etc costs you compared to milews of running flat out on flat runways! And if you run until you lose say 2 lights, and this figure gets smaller you can see the batteries are buggered. But if you cycle them once when new or a week old, you get a tru measure of capacity. Save graph, details, mark the battery (marker pen) and tag or name the file and later you can compare after a few months.

[TwoTeasChris]

...Watch it as you charge. It reads Ah. Like 25.44Ah. After chage it will read 2544 since theres stil a bug here in this version - it loses the decimal...
....

And is out by a factor of ten in Charge History. My 4.30Ah from last night shows as 430mAh. etc.

[Burgerman]

Same bug... You have to re decimalize it mentally.

[Burgerman]

And it ruins the pretty perfect graphs if you get beer from the fridge just 3 feet away... Grr..

Why dont I remember I am on charge!

Also somewhere near 28.8v there is something in the chairs electronics that makes the perfect curves go a bit spiky. Doesent do it with module disconnected. But nothing to worry about.

I am amazed it can charge a single tiny cell like a phone battery or an AAA battery. It can do 550 watts. Up to 60 volts, and up to 20 amps. One cough and it would blow the tiny battery away! But it doesent...

[JoeC]

Mine just showed up, a day early! I am definitely surprised at how small and light it is. I am resisting the urge (for now) to tear it open and see how it works. I'll start conditioning some MK gel batteries tonight.

[Burgerman]

Then do odysseys. See how much more positive and quick charging they are!

Dont forget to plug it into the pc and spend some time figuring out how the software/charger works. Thers a lot of options.

[Burgerman]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/hyperion.zip

You need this. Its newer than the one on their website.

And a 40ft long USB lead... Probably.

[Burgerman]

I am wrong. The beta is no longer a beta! Same version as on the hyperion site now.

[JoeC]

Sounds good. I'll update everything and do a full charge/discharge or two on each of the MK Gels before installing them in my wife's everyday chair. After that I'll do the same with the two year old batteries that she just got rid of, and then the Optimas, and the Odysseys....

[Burgerman]

You will be surprised that actual capacity isnt bad! At 20 hour rate. At 10 hour rate or 5 amps its about as fast as the charger can discharge, its worse. But what really happens is resistance increases. There are big volt drops with lead acids. Resistance and voltage sag are totally different to ac impedance... And they get worse as they get older. The lack of range is resistance not capacity. Its the lack of ability to actually get it out!

[JoeC]

The initial setup went smoothly and I'm graphing the charge of a gel now. One small problem- the resistance is stuck at zero. Am I missing something? I didn't see anything in the manual or help that looked like a prerequisite for getting resistance data.

[Burgerman]

You cant measure resistance during charge because of surface charge. A pb battery has to be on load for a few mins (5 or 10) to allow this false surface charge to be removed. So it measures it correctly some time after starting a discharge.

It stops discharging and grabs a voltage reading instantly as it rises and compares the two voltages as well as the discharge current to give a figure using ohms law. On a pb battery its the most accurate way to measure resistance.

Trouble is it measures the connectors and cables too. So gold plated connectors and heavy cables are a must. Measure cables and connectors with a multi meter if you have a good one, and subtract it from the result. Or just use the figure for comparison purposes.

ac impedance which it cant do, is more accurate and gives a reading similar to the manufacturers one as long as there are no battery cables etc. Since voltage cant change. As pb batteries are not linear when doing dc voltage drops or rises. But its still good to compare the reading over time.

It does this reading about 5 mins after you start discharging to get rid of the surface charge,

On other battery types it does it on charge and discharge every 50 seconds. And waits 10. These lithium etc types display very linear readings on both charge and discharge and at every state of charge. A pb battery cant really be tested for resistance as the voltage recovers fast over time when they are more discharged giving innacurate figures.

If you charge a pb battery as a 4 cell LiFe battery (14.40 cc/cv) or 8 cell (28,80) it will try to measure resistance every 50 secs and wait 10. So charges in bursts. But it will "float" if set to continue at the same voltage. Of course readings will be wrong though. Same with discharge. If you discharge it you will get a graph of resistance increasing with drop in charge. But it will not be very accurate due to haw pb batteries are.. Thats why in pb it does one reading a few minutes in during discharge.

[JoeC]

Thanks, I thought it might only be available during discharge but didn't want to interrupt my charge to poke around more, that makes sense.

[Burgerman]

It will charge a PB battery to either 1/100th C (works great for AGM and Healthy Gels) or 5 hours at CV whichever happens first. Because not all batteries ever reach 100th C especially gels and especially old batteries.

In both cases they are considered around 98 to 99 percentr charged. A further few hours at float finishes them off... If they need it. So once graph is done, and it says finished, watch the amps / volts figures for an hour or two. Once it drops low enough the charger will kick back in and add say 250ma or whatever it takes for a bit... This is why a greater float voltage is needed for rapid overnight cyclic chargeing.

[JoeC]

I turned it off not long after this-

gel_firstcharge.PNG (27.65 KiB) Viewed 8506 times

I think maybe I needed a higher charge voltage.

[Burgerman]

I usually charge gels at 14.4 as it takes too long otherwise...
14.2 should be ok if you have time.

Long thin cables = slow charge.
Low voltage = slower still...

Tired Old gel batteries may run for 5 hours and go to float (time limit) -- on a typical wheelchair charger would never reach full charge and give an error or red light.

[JoeC]

I am doing a discharge test of a brand new MK Gel, at 6.5 amps. I thought I had set it for 7.3 amps (ten hour rate, right?), but it is only doing a hair under 6.5 amps. The resistance measurement proceeded as expected, and said 13 milliohms. On par with the wimpy cables I'm using, I guess. They're light (just the ones that came with it) but less than two feet long.

I'll let this graph over night, then do a full charge at 14.4 volts and 8 amps during the day. I may repeat this once again before I switch to the second battery in the pair. After they've both been measured, charged, and marked, then they'll go into my wife's everyday chair for daily use- then I get to see how bad the old ones are!

[Burgerman]

Max discharge is a fixed wattage maximum. Or it would turn into a hairdryer...

It can do max 10 amps but not at 12v. About 5 amps or a little more is the max it can really do at approx 13v. So the amps will go up as the voltage goes down... To total max watts.

So I normally choose 5 as it ends up being about 8 to 12 hours anyway on wheelchair batteries. As they are usually tired, and dont give full capacity at 10 hours anyway. Actually if time allows choosing 3 .4 amps is about perfect for a 20 hour discharge to compare to claimed spec.

[JoeC]

Decimal points are still a bit off, but it appears that the discharge took 2:37, and terminated at 12.00 volts with a capacity of 17.17 AH. The overnight charge took 6:29 and replaced 26.28 AH at 14.4 volts.

Still figuring out if I should repeat, do it at a 20 hour rate, or move on.

[JoeC]

I decided to do the 20 hour rate, about 3.6 amps, and will see how this goes. Probably going to repeat the treatment and move on with it tomorrow. Two full cycles with a controlled top-up is a lot better conditioning than most wheelchair batteries get!