Tilt and crawl mode

[greybeard]

Need advice on how to adjust my Handicare Puma 40 so it can drive at normal speeds while tilted. There must be a switch or a sensor somewhere that controls when "crawl mode" clicks in but I can't find it. I considered shorting out the tilt feedback cables that enter the module but don't want to cause permanent damage and bugger the tilt for good. Just unplugging it sets the slow speed permanently until plug is replaced. There is nothing obvious in OBP to correct this.

It's strange because until this morning it was possible to drive at an ideal elevation at normal speed, but after tilting right back to for pressure relief, the crawl mode now kicks in at a much lower tilt with the footplate barely above the floor. I'm pretty sure no wires were over stressed during this tilt. Travelling at under one mile an hour is going to get old very fast.

Help please.

[ICEUK]

http://www.handicare.co.uk/media/39138/ ... -40_en.pdf


Page 85 and onwards, I know on my groove I fooled the limit switch into thinking the chair is always down, I think I shoved something into it...

[greybeard]

Thanks for that ICEUK. I Tried this, but the set screw only adjusts the amount of downward travel of the tilt ie it sets the angle at which the actuator stops lowering the seat.

Unfortunately it seems to have no effect on when the "crawl mode" kicks in. There is a note in the manual that says this inhibit is set to 9 degrees (for safety!!). This is too low for comfort for me and I would welcome advice on how to increase this angle, or alternatively (and preferably), how to disable this inhibit if this is possible without rendering tilt inoperable. Thanks.

[ICEUK]

its just a switch with a pin sticking out that detects when you tilt the chair, can you not just glue the switch pin or something like that to fool chair into thinking its level and not tilted, its what i done on my chair

[Burgerman]

Find someone with a proper OEM programmer and turn off all the inhibit rubbish and program it to steer better at the same time.

[greybeard]

Find someone with a proper OEM programmer and turn off all the inhibit rubbish and program it to steer better at the same time.

I hear you BM. That's why I met up with a friend with an OEM programmer to set all the parameters you recommend on your website. It handles just fine now except for this tilt issue.

[greybeard]

its just a switch with a pin sticking out that detects when you tilt the chair, can you not just glue the switch pin or something like that to fool chair into thinking its level and not tilted, its what i done on my chair

Hi mate. Thanks for trying to help, but unfortunately the switch on this chair does only what I described in my last reply to you. I have established by experiment that it has no effect on the inhibit that limits the speed. There must be another sensor that controls that elsewhere on the chair.

As I have not been able to trace any wires that lead to such a device I assume it must be built into the actuator itself. There is pair of wires in the actuator loom that plug into the ISM module and are labelled "Tilt feedback". Can somebody advise me on the consequences of unplugging them and shorting them out. I do not want to try this without advice to avoid permanent damage to the actuator. Can anyone please advise?

[Burgerman]

I hear you BM. That's why I met up with a friend with an OEM programmer to set all the parameters you recommend on your website. It handles just fine now except for this tilt issue.

Meet again, turn off inhibits.

[greybeard]

Haha! If you saw the performance to get this damned chair into the back of our motor for the journey, you might not assume this was as easily accomplished as it sounds. It turned out the new ramps that I bought just for this exercise are a whisker too narrow to accommodate the drive wheels and the casters, which are inset a few inches from the drive wheels. Bloody disaster when it fell off on the blind side when I unloaded it back at home!

I'm hoping the dongle owner will be visiting in a few weeks time. Despite this, I would still welcome advice about a hardware disconnect of this inhibitor.

[Burgerman]

Well you will need to figure out what it does and how with a Multimeter. Or its just guesswork. It may need a resistor across it in place of the inhibit wires.

[woodygb]

http://sunrise.pgdrivestechnology.com/m ... 981-05.pdf

page 48 ...Inhibit is normally achieved by taking a wire to GND ...so try simply unplugging Inh 4 / Inh 5 ...

[Burgerman]

Its reversible in software so also try the opposite if it still is inhibited.

[rover220]

Does you chair use the reac or balle system?

[ICEUK]

Geoff i still got your software files i will open them up and try to locate the tilt setting, i should have my van with next week or two, it will be easier for me to come to you.

Its odd how it drove at normal speed until you tilted the chair fully, if we inhibit the switch we are just masking the issue as it was fine before. Going vto have to stir our grey matter.

[greybeard]

Does you chair use the reac or balle system?

Reac.

[greybeard]

http://sunrise.pgdrivestechnology.com/manuals/pgdt_rnet_manual_SK77981-05.pdf

page 48 ...Inhibit is normally achieved by taking a wire to GND ...so try simply unplugging Inh 4 / Inh 5 ...

Inh 4 (or 5 - I'm away from the chair at the moment) is the one labelled 'Tilt Feedback'. Unplugging it keeps it permanently at low speed, which is why I considered shorting the wires.

[greybeard]

Geoff i still got your software files i will open them up and try to locate the tilt setting, i should have my van with next week or two, it will be easier for me to come to you.

Its odd how it drove at normal speed until you tilted the chair fully, if we inhibit the switch we are just masking the issue as it was fine before. Going vto have to stir our grey matter.

Thanks John. I would appreciate that although I will be able to bodge a solution to the ramps if you can't make it. It's only a couple of hours each way. As for the grey matter, it's wearing out fast . As you know, I'm new to all this and a lot of the technical info requires a lot of study before it sinks in if at all. Extreme old age, mate!

[greybeard]

Well you will need to figure out what it does and how with a Multimeter. Or its just guesswork. It may need a resistor across it in place of the inhibit wires.

Thanks. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

[Burgerman]

>>> Inh 4 (or 5 - I'm away from the chair at the moment) is the one labelled 'Tilt Feedback'. Unplugging it keeps it permanently at low speed, which is why I considered shorting the wires.

It can be reversed in software. or just short it.

[greybeard]

Thanks BM but, with respect, this is my only chair and I need the tilt to function perfectly. I know absolutely nothing about actuators, their controls or powerchair electronics in general. It is all a new learning experience to me. I don't even really know how to use a multimeter!

How sure are you that shorting the feedback wires will cause no damage to the actuator? Even if I am trying your patience with these questions, I have to be certain of that before attempting to follow your advice. I hope you understand.

[Burgerman]

No. Disconnect from the actuator. Short the pins that feed the position in the control system.

[greybeard]

Ah. Got it. Thanks.

[greybeard]

Well if I was confused before, now I'm utterly lost.

I have followed all the advice given by everyone above (for which I thank you all), finally with BM's suggestion of shorting the socket into which the tilt feedback plug is housed and then shorting the wires themselves. Nothing makes the slightest difference to the inhibitor that limits the speed according to the tilt angle. I'm still stuck with that irritating tortoise icon on the screen, and stuck in low speed mode, except when the seat is horizontal or lower.

I just hope you find an option to change this in the OEM programmer ICEUK, otherwise it looks as though I'm screwed for a decent amount of dump while driving.

Thanks again for all the help, guys.

Anyone else have any ideas/suggestions, please?

[woodygb]

I know it's not the same chair ..but it may help.

http://www.sunrisemedical.com/getattach ... anual.aspx

Section 4

[ICEUK]

i sent you PM geoff, make sure you are shortening the tilt inhibit switch and not the downward limit switch, i will have van on the 20th of november,

[ICEUK]

BM

Is this the correct place to disable the tilt inhibit crawl mode, I presume I just set it to 100% if it's not correct can you please show me correct location to disable it

many thx john

[greybeard]

Thanks Woody, but mine has no similar connections.

[Burgerman]

I think so. Its a bit like guesswork. OK if its right. But if you didn't set it up, or know what the names or inputs are called you cant be sure.

Just set everything marked inhibit on every profile and every band and every option to 100 one at time until you find the right one if not. Really everyone needs an OEM programmer themselves to play about and get things correct over time.

[greybeard]

i sent you PM geoff, make sure you are shortening the tilt inhibit switch and not the downward limit switch, i will have van on the 20th of november,

I've not been able to find a tilt inhibit switch. I think it is possible that the 'tilt feedback' cable must control this somehow. It WAS the downward limit switch that I was fiddling with after your first suggestion as it was the only switch I could find (except for the upper limit switch).

[LROBBINS]

Your tilt actuator may have a potentiometer built in rather than a tilt inhibit switch. If that's the case, it may have slipped position, but doing surgery on the actuator to fix it may be easy or may be a pita. In any case, if you're a careful driver and would feel safe not having any tilt inhibit at all, by all means get rid of the inhibit in the programming. Just do realize that you might be rather unstable if tilted much. Ciao, Lenny