PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[ex-Gooserider]

SNIP

I don't think Anderson connectors are color coded. I'm using red SB50s, and I've also seen them in grey and black. If the chair connector is an SB75 then you will have to get an SB75. Is the Add-on pack going to have SB50 connectors?

Anderson SB-50 connectors ARE color coded, there is even a frequently ignored 'standard' about what voltage is supposed to be used for each color.... Grey and Black SB50's will connect to each other, but the other colors are not supposed to be able to connect (there are some reports that they will but it seems to be mixed)

The PP-75 Power Pole connectors use the same pins as the SB 50's, and I like them better if needing to fit more than two conductors into the same connection. The shells are color coded, but WILL connect to each other - however I try to avoid mixing colors in practice as that sort of ruins any benefit to color coding the connections....

ex-Gooserider

[expresso]

If you would like a pdf of the Anderson catalog, drop me a PM with your e-mail address - it's >12Mb so can't be attached here.

There is no such thing as an SB75. There is a PowerPole PP75 but that's a completely different design. There's also an SBS 75 that is similar to the SB series but is "finger protected", and there are other series (SBX, SBE, SBO) with, for example, auxiliary contacts. (Rather hard to find if you're not ordering in OEM quantities.) The SB50 comes in multiple colors and for the most part different colors will not plug into each other. There are exceptions, however; if I recall correctly grey and red will interconnect, but caution my memory is very fallible. So, your black Anderson is most likely a black SB50. The contact pins are identical no matter the color (and also the same in the PP75), so you can also pop them out and change the shell if you wish.

Ciao,
Lenny

Ok i sent you a PM - thanks

[expresso]

SNIP

I don't think Anderson connectors are color coded. I'm using red SB50s, and I've also seen them in grey and black. If the chair connector is an SB75 then you will have to get an SB75. Is the Add-on pack going to have SB50 connectors?

Anderson SB-50 connectors ARE color coded, there is even a frequently ignored 'standard' about what voltage is supposed to be used for each color.... Grey and Black SB50's will connect to each other, but the other colors are not supposed to be able to connect (there are some reports that they will but it seems to be mixed)

The PP-75 Power Pole connectors use the same pins as the SB 50's, and I like them better if needing to fit more than two conductors into the same connection. The shells are color coded, but WILL connect to each other - however I try to avoid mixing colors in practice as that sort of ruins any benefit to color coding the connections....

ex-Gooserider

yes i think thats correct - i remember reading that - the colors mean the Volts - so if its lets say 45V - then its RED or something like that - so who ever knows the color code - etc, would know by the color of the connector - but it dosnt matter what color you use - but in the Field or Emergency Field - Firefigthers - etc, - thats how it works -

its like the Pos and Neg. Cable - everyone knows RED is Pos. - and Black is Neg. - but you can use any color you like for Pos - a long time ago - thats how i killed my alternator when i was young - i went to change the battery on the car - of course the wires were not RED and Black - it was green or yellow - i dont even remember - and i crossed them - didnt realize - i fixed it - and went out that night -

well of course - i got stuck at 2 am on the way home - but weird things happen in the bronx - i found someone who just happen to have a battery - paid him and got home - - maybe he just stole if from someone elses car that night -

those were the days - Cheek and Chong days -

[Burgerman]

http://www.connector-techals.com.au/dat ... rsonr1.pdf


12V - Yellow
18V - Orange
24V - Red
36V - Gray
48V - Blue
72V - Green
80V - Black
96V - Brown
120V - Purple
144V - White


I use grey for everything. That way I can charge chairs from cars, vans, vans from chairs, power mowers, inverters, from chairs/vehicles, start vans, run my drill, swap batteries, join batteries, connect to solar system, or any so far un-thought of combination as and when needed. EG When we had a power cut as they were resurfacing the street, I plugged my electric bed into my power chair directly, and ran an inverter to power my bedroom lights from my spare batteries just by plugging in. Right now, I am using a 12V soldering iron, directly from my chair.

[expresso]

I think i am sure its a PP75 - i recall seeing that on the Black connector - i have to double check that when i remove the batteries again - so its a different connector ? i would have to get the same one to make it work correctly

they use a different color for the chair connector and the battery connectors - the reason for that is so the Techs - cant make a mistake when they change batteries - theres only one way to connect it - so its color coded

my battery are connected with both RED Connectors and the Chair gets the Black one - i added my direct cable and used a SB50 Grey - Two of my chargers are with the same ends Grey SB50 -

now if the SB50 plug fitst the PP75 - i dont know - it may or may not - but either way - i would keep it color coded anyway -

[expresso]

http://www.connector-techals.com.au/datasheets/andersonr1.pdf


12V - Yellow
18V - Orange
24V - Red
36V - Gray
48V - Blue
72V - Green
80V - Black
96V - Brown
120V - Purple
144V - White

Ok - i remember i was asked what color i needed - when i got my direct cable made for me - they asked me - if it mattered to me if they gave me the grey one - because i told him it was for my wheelchair 24V etc, - so if my chair is PP75 - what would that mean - i could still use my Grey SB50 connector if i wanted ? or i have to get the same Model

[Burgerman]

The single PP75 ones are NOT the same. You can connect a blue to a red etc. But it still identifies it.

The PINS (contacts) are exactly the same so use either. But I would use a 50 because you cant plug it in backwards...

[BounderGimp]

http://www.powerwerx.com/

http://www.powerwerx.com/anderson-power ... pole-sets/

More Anderson details whiich might be of help.

[expresso]

i could be wrong - the Black one on my chair - it can even be the SB50 in black then - i will check that next time i open the box - remove the batteries and take some good pictures - the Red ones i dont see any markings on it -

but i have loose grey SB50 i just got - and can see if they would fit - then i know for sure - if the housing snaps together or not - then i would know - hard to see in this picture

[LROBBINS]

The paired connectors sitting on top of your batteries are RED SB50 with black plastic protective boots over them. The PP series are quite different, even though they use the same contacts.

BTW - John, with the PP you also can't connect them with polarity reversed, and you can also orient the pins in multiple ways so that you can't plug them in wrong. For example, I'm using PP75 for Rachi's motors and PP45 for the brakes, with one side having the contacts parallel to each other and the other side having them in line, so they are keyed and can't be mis-connected. They can be oriented parallel, in line, or crow foot, and in two different orientations for each, so there are a lot of possibilities. I wouldn't recommend using both parallel orientations or both crow foot orientations or both in-line orientations on the same device, however, because then you could possibly connect the wrong plugs together and get a polarity reversal.

Ciao,
Lenny

[expresso]

If i end up doing this - i would want to just use the same connector for the Chair Black one - what ever it is - i get the same one for that plug only - and what ever else i add myself - i keep it SB50 grey - -

i checked the prices on both the EV site - compared to the one here in the States - and if you have a small order - maybe its ok to get from the states - but if not in a rush - you are better off with prices at EV Site -

i checked the totals - if doing a chair - 72 cells and the 56 Cells - etc, its about $300 less from EV - thats not a bad savings - as long as your shipment is not held up - and everything ships smoothly - so i guess i be using EV again if and when that time comes - plus they offer me a little off - $38 - not much - i was expecting $100 at least - for the trouble -

[flagman1776]

I'm researching non-headway cells in the planning stage of the big scooter LiFePO4 Conversion. The group 27 SLA batteries are rated 90ah or the latest version bumps to 100ah. I'm not having success in increasing the nominal ah over SLA rating (realizing that the actual amp-hours available from lead batteries without damage is considerably less than the rating).
Dimensionally, the group 27 SLA batteries are 12” L x 6.63” W x 9.06“ H. As far as finessing more room under the hood, I'm confident I can go to 13"L, 8"W, 10"H... but that is not enough for the larger Winston sizes.

What I've managed to layout a fitment is:
Winston 100ah (8 total cells) 8S for 100ah $1080 in calls + $259 shipping charges ($13/ah)
Headway 38140S (96 total cells) 12P, 8S for 144ah $1823 in cells + $317.78 shipping charges ($14.9/ah)
Headway 40152S (80 total cells) 10P, 8S 80 for 150 ah $1900 in cells + $325 in shipping charges ($14.8/ah)
(All Pricing from EVA is plus shipping)

EV Assemble http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?mai ... 20a&page=1 show yellow retangular cells in 40, 60, 90, 100, 160, 200ah listed as Winton. LiFPO4
Headway Headquarters.com (USA based) http://www.headway-headquarters.com/brands/CALiB.html show (black & white) 60 & 100ah cells.
EV Components.com http://evcomponents.com/catalogsearch/r ... q=Winston/
I think these mfgs have changed names in the last couple of years & not sure all the resellers have caught up... think these are reallythe same cells.

[Burgerman]

Headway 38140S (96 total cells) 12P, 8S for 144ah $1823 in cells + $317.78 shipping charges ($14.9/ah)
Headway 40152S (80 total cells) 10P, 8S 80 for 150 ah $1900 in cells + $325 in shipping charges ($14.8/ah)

Since the 15Ah cells are a bit higher resistance the actual performance between these two will be about the same.
I think a real 144Ah over the 90Ah (60 in reality) lead, will give you about 2.2 to 2.5 times the range.

[shirley_hkg]

SB50, black and grey are compatible with each other, that you can plug them together at least.

Red does not.

[shirley_hkg]

PP can be arranged in various ways and X / Y directions. Unlimited numbers .

[Burgerman]

PP75 connectors can be connected to any alternative colours (can be useful or dangerous depending on user and usage) and are much easier to connect and disconnect for some reason compared to the dual SB50 ones... But are also less secure. They are very easy to knock and undo if a cable gets pulled for eg... I use a small cable tie if its mission critical/out of reach.

[expresso]

Maybe its not a PP75 my connector - because it wasnt easy to pull apart -- either one of them was - the chair and the batteries - both hard to discount - maybe they are all SB50 and different colors - i may take the chair apart again either tonight or tomorrow night - and will check again - take pictures -

[flagman1776]

I didn't know there was such a thing as "low force" SB50. All of mine are grey regular SB50s... with my hands as they are (usually, it varies through the day), it is pretty difficult to get the connectors apart. I use a rocking motion. Rarely I am forced to resort to a small screwdriver once I have a slight separation, insert the screwdriver blade & a slight twist. There are T handle extensions for he SB50s which bolt on through the holes between contants. One of these days... I'll anchor one side to the TravelScoot & put a T handle on the other.

I briefly tried the smaller separate size & there was not enough for me to get a hold of.

[expresso]

i seen the T handle and i like that idea also - at least on one end - i would put that on the charger end - so can hold one end and pull the T handle - i dont do it either way - but its easier for my worker to do it - good idea -

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T4N ... _pC_nS_ttl


i have one cable that was made for me - which also has this on it - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CBX ... _pC_nS_ttl

at first i wasnt sure if i wanted that on it - but worked out where i put it - for now at least -

and i use the boots to cover it also -

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UOA ... o_pC_S_ttl

the boots you have to double check if its for the SB50 Anderson or some other kind - but it looks the same - there are different sizes -

[LROBBINS]

Anderson contacts come in both standard and low-force versions, though the low-force ones are harder to source. Ciao, Lenny

[flagman1776]

I hadn't seen the "boot" before but it has a neet appearance. Either that or the T handle would improve grip & prevent damage by accidentally pulling on the cables. I should get them.

[Scollard]

SNIP

I don't think Anderson connectors are color coded. I'm using red SB50s, and I've also seen them in grey and black. If the chair connector is an SB75 then you will have to get an SB75. Is the Add-on pack going to have SB50 connectors?

Anderson SB-50 connectors ARE color coded, there is even a frequently ignored 'standard' about what voltage is supposed to be used for each color.... Grey and Black SB50's will connect to each other, but the other colors are not supposed to be able to connect (there are some reports that they will but it seems to be mixed)

The PP-75 Power Pole connectors use the same pins as the SB 50's, and I like them better if needing to fit more than two conductors into the same connection. The shells are color coded, but WILL connect to each other - however I try to avoid mixing colors in practice as that sort of ruins any benefit to color coding the connections....

ex-Gooserider

My understanding is all SB50 Anderson Connectors are rated to 600V. So they are not color coded as far as performance goes. The colors may be related to a representative voltage but any color SB50 is good to 600V.

[Burgerman]

More in reality. I have used them on higher voltages on solar stuff.

[expresso]

I hadn't seen the "boot" before but it has a neet appearance. Either that or the T handle would improve grip & prevent damage by accidentally pulling on the cables. I should get them.

the T handle is the one you want to be able to hold and pull with no worries - the boot just covers it to keep dust out - its not a very tight fit - but enough to stay put more or less - i use them - and mines never came off on its own - and if it does - the loop holds it so you wont loose it -

[expresso]

Scollard - My other half of the order is coming next week - Cells on Monday - maybe Tuesday - holiday Monday and the extra buss bars on Wed. next week - so maybe we can start next weekend - and just wait for BMS at the end -

i took more pictures last night - checked the chair - that divider - will post the pics later - its still tight for my liking - but i can try to replace the divider with thinner one - shorter and a little wider - that would hold itself on the sides not need the velcro which is keeping it lower - the inner box has clips on the sides which the wires should be in there - and they werent - have to fix that when i do it - - i just noticed it in the pictures - i have to have a divider - on top of divider there are the control box and more wiring for the seat lift and tilt etc, - and another box over it - - so the divider has to stay put - but i can try to have one made - if the hardware store around here has a sheet of plastic - thinner and strong - i can ask if they can cut it to my size - that would be better -

but even so - its a tight fit for my liking - i may still not do the 72 cells - i am leaning on the 15ah cells the way you suggested - 48 Cell pack and extra 8 on top - which i am not sure how they would stay put etc, but when i get there - you can explain that part - one step at a time first - i like the idea of having the options this way - 90ah pack - and 8 Cells on top, if i see it fits good for my liking - then i leave it with the 56 Cells - that way - and hopefully have the room to be able to pull the tray out and back with out having to force it like now - the tops of the posts rubbing on the divider - i dont want that -

the tray is exacte size of the space - so with or with out the tray - not much difference - i feel a little better now - once i get this ADD on pack done - maybe i feel even better to keep going -

And the Red Anderson i have on the battery pack in my chair - does not fit the Grey SB50 i have - its different - but the Black one which goes to the Chair Main power - that looks the same as my Grey - i think thats the same connector -
hopefully it can be confirmed once i post the picture -

[Burgerman]

bLACK And grey are the same. Or they will fit anyway.

[expresso]

These pics - show the wiring and control box for the Seat lift and tilt etc. this seat on the divider with another small cover over it - - so the divider is needed - but i may be able to get a sheet of plastic made to fit better and thinner -
maybe - or else i stuck with this divider -

[expresso]

I didnt try to force the Grey in the Black - but it seems as if it would fit - the Grey connector is not made yet - maybe thats why it just stopped at a point - but seems to fit - the Red one - is different - wont fit - wont matter - dont need that one - was just checking it while i was there -

[Burgerman]

Have you ever noticed that production powerchairs are made from hundreds of obscure shaped brackets, bolts and dust? Where a single simple part will do, and simplicity seems to be frowned upon? They end up overweight, over complex, over priced, and look old when new.

I didnt try to force the Grey in the Black - but it seems as if it would fit - the Grey connector is not made yet - maybe thats why it just stopped at a point - but seems to fit - the Red one - is different - wont fit - wont matter - dont need that one - was just checking it while i was there -

We know. Its already been mentioned many times. I have a bench full of the things. I use black/grey interchangeably. NON of the others will fit anything else but a matching colour. So if needed just pop the pins out and swap a plastic case.

And all the PP75 are connectable whatever the colour.

[expresso]

another view -