S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[expresso]

ok i done it - changed the settings to show hidden files - now i have to do it on my laptop later - is that it - or theres more to unhide ?

still dont think i can rename the TXT file to anything else - when i save it as - i have either as TXT . or save as ALL Files - what ever that means -

but i did unhide the folders - at least

[LROBBINS]

Yes you can - in Windows Explorer. Find the file, right click on its name and you'll see "Rename" in the drop down context menu. That will highlight the name and you can move the cursor about and delete and add whatever you want. If you change the final suffix, a little warning will pop up saying that changing this might make it not work - just tell it to go ahead and change it.

As far as other changes in the tools/folder options/view list, read through them and change anything you feel comfortable changing. You can always change it back, but for renaming to zip the only thing you need is un-hide the extension.

Lenny

[expresso]

ok think i got it - if this is correct - i just changed it from TXT to Zip - data file for my first charge combo lead and lithium

[expresso]

Yes you can - in Windows Explorer. Find the file, right click on its name and you'll see "Rename" in the drop down context menu. That will highlight the name and you can move the cursor about and delete and add whatever you want. If you change the final suffix, a little warning will pop up saying that changing this might make it not work - just tell it to go ahead and change it.

As far as other changes in the tools/folder options/view list, read through them and change anything you feel comfortable changing. You can always change it back, but for renaming to zip the only thing you need is un-hide the extension.

Lenny

thanks - this should be working now - i got the message about the warning etc, - and i was able to see the extension when i go to rename it - as before i never saw it - its unhidden now - both extensions and folders etc, -

would you believe i worked for over 12 years with computer - haha - IT - but in the operations end of it - thats my work history - its been over 15 years i havnt worked since wheelchair use started etc, - i just take care of my own computers at home - like BM - install fresh - build my own - just buy parts etc - watercooled - i cut open the i7 unlocked and changed out the paste - able to OC to 4.7 now and never reach over 75C on a full load all day - fairly quiet also - not a screaming FAN - to cool it -

its a special paste - Cool lab pro - only thing that worked - amazing - if you OC - Overclock the speed etc, - i never went to Win 10 yet - everything works fine so no need as of yet -

thanks again -
by the way Lenny - i just got my voting ballot from italy - who should i vote for ? i havnt a clue here - imagine there -

ok i going to get the Cells in order before i start to charge them -

later -

[Scollard]

OMG. You Windoze people are so funny. Just renaming a file to .Zip does not make it a .Zip file. The file is not Zipped (compressed) at all. It is still just a text file with the wrong extension. You need to get WinZIp or something else to actually compress the file. BTW zipping a file on a Mac is as easily as right clicking and selecting compress. Expresso has sometimes compressed a file using rar. But, of course BM's computer can read a rar file. You all crack me up. I get BM motivation, he see his computer as a toy. He builds his own, plays with it, bends it to his will. He is a 0.1 percenter. Most people need a tool, it should just work perfectly from the start all the time.

Test for you Windoze guys.

1) Open Excel
2) Select 4 or 5 columns and make them exactly 1" wide
3) Make a grid with all those cells
4) Print the grid
5) Take a ruler and measure the width of the columns
6) Wonder why they are not 1" wide

[Burgerman]

OMG. You Windoze people are so funny. Just renaming a file to .Zip does not make it a .Zip file. The file is not Zipped (compressed) at all. It is still just a text file with the wrong extension.

Correct. Its the wrong file. Actually sometimes he zips a renamed text file with winrar, and renames or add anothe .ziop to it... Its because he doesenmt understand computers and would probably be better off with a dumb one like yours!

And why would you think it would zip it? I can use 3 different zip utilities, or windows built in zip compression, or I can do it old style from a dos box... PK ZIP Compression. Changing a file extension just changes the name, and the program that you have assosiated with that extension to open it.

You need to get WinZIp or something else to actually compress the file.

Nope! Its built in. Right click, send to: Compressed folder.

See http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/desk.jpg

BTW zipping a file on a Mac is as easily as right clicking and selecting compress.

Thats also built into windows for 12 years at least!
People CHOOSE to use other utilities like winzip, winrar, for added functionality such as making self extracting .exe files or for grabbing movies from the newsgroups where one of the files is missing (because the ISP deleted one to stop people reassembling them) and it includes a mechanism for spreading the data across multiple parts so it can still be recovered. And different levels of compression, different levels of encryption etc.

Expresso has sometimes compressed a file using rar. But, of course BM's computer can read a rar file.

Windows can too.

You all crack me up.

Really. You dont appear to know a lot about windows considering how cracked up you are because I have used both. And theres bugger all to choose for a dumb basic user, but a world of difference if you KNOW what you are doing.

I get BM motivation, he see his computer as a toy. He builds his own, plays with it, bends it to his will. He is a 0.1 percenter. Most people need a tool, it should just work perfectly from the start all the time.

Well they both do. For a non computer literate, say my mum, a mac would maybe be better straight out of the box. But with someone to configure it for her like me, a PC is a better choice. Its non betamax. Her work specific windows software can run... Without having to run an emulator.
For an experienced user, that want real flexibility, and the ability to configure things to the nth degree so it does what I want rather than someone els, or want to run standardised software related to my hardware thats all windows based or hobby stuff, tools etc, theres simply no option. A mac is just a web surfing and email box for the computer illiterate. Its too restrictive, too expensive and too slow, and wont run much...

[LROBBINS]

Test for you Windoze guys.
1) Open Excel
2) Select 4 or 5 columns and make them exactly 1" wide
3) Make a grid with all those cells
4) Print the grid
5) Take a ruler and measure the width of the columns
6) Wonder why they are not 1" wide

That is not a Windows thing, though it might be a "feature" of Excell. As I use QuattroPro, I ran your test with it under Win 7 - six 1" columns, each prints 1" wide and the total width is within 1/32" of 6". (BTW, I set the column widths numerically rather than by "eye".)
Ciao, Lenny

[Burgerman]

Why Windows PCs and laptops are better than Macs
Why PCs are better than Macs: Devices

Only the Windows world offers true variety.

The simple fact is that Apple produces only five kinds of OS X computer. Two types of laptop, the Mac mini, the iMac all-in-one and the Mac Pro. They are all fine products, and they will satisfy plenty of people's needs. But not by any means all of them.

Missing from that list of Apple products: convertible laptops and tablets, tablets themselves (iPads don't run OS X software), and gaming rigs. You don't get tabletop slabs like the Sony Tap 20. There's no equivalent to the Surface Pro 2 or the Asus Transformer Book T100T.

More importantly, you can't buy a Mac for less than £499 inc VAT, and that's the Mac mini - hardly a workhorse for everyone. By contrast you can pick up a perfectly decent Windows PC or laptop from a big-name maker such as Dell, HP or Lenovo for as little as £350 inc VAT. Less if you are prepared to shop around.
Why PCs are better than Macs: Games

Where do we start? Yes, lots of big name game franchises have ports that work on Mac, and yes since the move to Intel there is no inherent reason for Macs not to run demanding games. You can also access Steam from a Mac, so this is the golden age of Mac gaming. And it sucks.

Face facts, Mac fans: no serious gamer is going to be trapped into Apple's walled garden. There are infinitely more games available for Windows PC, from casual games up to the biggest, baddest games on the planet. And you'll pay for the privilege of playing those relatively few games the Mac supports: you could get a decent Windows gaming rig for the cost of a Mac mini - and with onboard graphics the mini is useless for playing all but the simplest games.

You can game on a Mac, but if you consider yourself a gamer the options in the Windows world are much greater - not least because you can customise a PC to fit a gaming-specific spec. And for every type of gamer the choices offered in the Windows world are greater.
Why PCs are better than Macs: Security

This is where Mac fans get smug. 'There are no viruses in the OS X world', they say. And 'you don't need antivirus on a Mac'. The first statement is palpably untrue, the second is debatable. There is no doubt that you are less likely to be infected by a computer virus if your computer is a Mac. This is partly because OS X - as a UNIX-based system - is compartmentalised in such a way that it is harder to infect than a Windows PC. And it is also true that fewer criminals attempt to hack Macs because there is a smaller user base and it is harder to do. Criminals don't become criminals because they have a great work ethic.

But Macs are not inherently secure. They do get malware, and that is likely to become a bigger deal as Mac market share grows. Moreover the vector of attack these days tends to be social rather than technical. You are more likely to be phished for bank details, or persuaded to click a dodgy link on Facebook, than you are to hit by a driveby malware exploit. (This is one reason why security software companies are desperately trying to get people to install pointless AV on smartphones.)

Windows is very far from perfect. It is inherently insecure. But at least Windows users know that. The herd immunity is far from perfect, but as a percentage Windows users are more likely than their Mac brethren to run security software. Windows 8 comes with antivirus baked in. It is, as Kylie once sang, better the devil you know. All internet use exposes you to threat: at least Windows users know they cannot be complacent.
Why PCs are better than Macs: Value

We have covered this before, but let me say it again: the cheapest Mac is the basic no thrills Mac mini. It has integrated graphics and limited storage. And without a keyboard or display it costs five hundred quid.

Most Macs are actually decent value, but they are not cheap. And they cater to a wealthy, high-end clientele. If you want a true value computer you need to look to the Windows world. You can pick up a decent family or office PC or laptop for £350 or even less. And that's value.
Why PCs are better than Macs: Software

And finally - software support. Windows software is like Windows games, and the same is true on the Mac side. There are plenty of programs to run on your OS X Mac. And most major programs have Mac versions. But that's most, and not all. And they are often ports of software originally developed for Windows.

The most popular productivity suite for Mac? Microsoft Office. It's good, but it's never quite up to date with the Windows version (as you might expect).

The Windows world is a feast of free- and shareware, free downloads that do just about anything. On the Mac side you have to change the settings to install anything that isn't approved by Apple itself. It means the software all works well, but the choice is limited.
Why PCs are better than Macs: The verdict

That's as good a place as any to stop: go for a Mac if you have money to burn, aren't a serious gamer, and value a controlled experience over freedom of choice. Go for Windows for variety, value and the option to customise. Basically, get a Windows PC.

[steves1977uk]

I've ran Windows since Version 3.1 and never had an issue with it. All Linux and Mac OS X have there fair share of bugs too, but are not publicly disclosed mostly because they have very little market share compared to Windows OS's. It's all down to the user and quality of hardware they buy.

Like it or not, Windows has the best security and advanced features. Can you run most hobbyists or wheelchair programming software natively on Linux or Mac OS X??? Nope, you have to run an emulator such as Wine, Virtualbox or Parallels. I've tried Linux, it's too time consuming to do basic tasks and drivers are a PITA too.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Well I am from the DOS days and the latest 6.22 was an upgrade!

Win 3.1 was a bit rubbish. 95 crashed all the time, as did 98, and all the 16 and 32 bit win that ran on fat 32...

I used NT, and windows 2000 because they worked. As did XP. And I used 64 bit XP, and Vista was crap, and then 7 appeared. I used that for years. It just works. As does the new free Windows 10. But most people pay for that free with all the microsoft aps and other garbage it tries to push (like apple always has). But if you know what you are doing you just remove/uninstall all of that bullshit. Yes it takes a couple of days to tame it. And then its the best yet. Leaves apple and its mass of restrictions and apple only stuff way behind.

>>> You all crack me up.

Likewise. You are the one with all the restrictions. I am free, with a better operating system and way more options and choice!

[expresso]

i remember when i went to school for this - No windows - no color screen - just a flashing cursor on the screen - long way from there now

i remember learning the binary code - pretty cool - i dont remember it now -

all done charging up the cells - a few are off a bit more than the rest - now i have to figure this out -

[expresso]

here is the list of the recharge -

[Scollard]

here is the list of the recharge -

I crunched the numbers for Expresso.

[Burgerman]

Thats great. But thats not the hard bit.

But they all need to be shuffled about so that they all add up to the same mah TOTAL when added up in each group.

[Scollard]

Thats great. But thats not the hard bit.

But they all need to be shuffled about so that they all add up to the same mah TOTAL when added up in each group.

That's what I meant when I said I crunched the numbers. 8 sets of 7 cells all between 454 and 456 mAh.

[expresso]

yes i see how its not easy trying to figure this out - many thanks to Scollard for holding my hand helping me with this project

i got the blocks out and going to make the bottom part for the Cells to sit in - but ran into a issue that has to be resolved before i can build the pack - heres the first bump in the road - lets say all the Cells are grouped now and ready to install

i cant do that just yet - the battery tray this pack will sit in - i tested it and it fits once all the blocks are connected which by the way will take me a few days to just the bottom - i just did two rolls - very hard - tight to get them connected so will take my time slowly - i left it for now - will try another roll later

so the bottom all fit in the tray - But i will have no room to run any wires down the sides to the bottom of the pack - the only wire i can do are the thin balance wires - which i think thats fine - but 12 AWG or 10 AWG i dont have to room to snake them down the sides to the bottom - and i would need to do that if i add the top 8 Cells for a 105 ah pack -

90ah pack would be just right perfect fit - i wont have to run any wires to the bottom of the pack other than the balance wires which i can do -

thats one bump i have to figure out - but before that - and i will try to get this done this week - i have to clear out the chair battery area - and see if i can raise the divider up a bit - and test fit the tray with batteries in them and extra row on top - not connected - to see if 105h even fits - because if i cant get the 105ah in there after i raised the divider the most i can - - then thats out of the question anyway - and back down to 90ah in the tray as is - which will work with no issues that i can see now -

lets say - i do make the 105h fit in the chair with divider raised up a bit - then i am clear to make a 105ah - but the tray i wanted to use wont work as is now - - i was thinking if the tray is holding me back from the 105ah pack -

i was thinking of cutting one side of the Lip of the tray and fold it down flat - to free up space - i would have to cut the Lip again down the length because it would be too wide if i just cut the corners and flip it down flat - i have to cut that in half at least also -

i have a dremel - not sure what tips i have for that - - and i have to wait for a friend to do the lifting once i am ready to test fit it -

so i guess first step is to test fit it to see what size i can make - before moving forward ? i cant do that till a friend does it for me - when time permits - maybe a week before i can test fit it -

here is the pics - any suggestions - that i may be missing ?

[expresso]

Thats great. But thats not the hard bit.

But they all need to be shuffled about so that they all add up to the same mah TOTAL when added up in each group.

That's what I meant when I said I crunched the numbers. 8 sets of 7 cells all between 454 and 456 mAh.

yes i realize thats not easy to figure out - does the program do this for you - i mean can you add them and let the program come up with best end number ?

what can i do to help with this part if any ?

the other thing is - one if figure out what size actually will fit - 105ah or 90ah - what if we get all the correct set of cells in order for a 105ah pack - and then that wont fit - and have to go to the 90ah pack -

would have to re crunch them again ?

[Burgerman]

would have to re crunch them again ?

Yes... You need to end up with the same mah in each group. So unless theres a cell in every group, with similar mah you can take away, then you wioll need to do some maths.

[expresso]

Thats great. But thats not the hard bit.

But they all need to be shuffled about so that they all add up to the same mah TOTAL when added up in each group.

That's what I meant when I said I crunched the numbers. 8 sets of 7 cells all between 454 and 456 mAh.

whow i got it - thanks alot - !!! - thats a close pack - i didnt think it could get that close - since i have a few cells over 100 - one of them 130 - compared to the others -

[Burgerman]

Charge it before you fit it. And then discharge about 10Ah from it and test by charging again. If all ends with all cells together you won!

If you will store it for more than a week or two, then dischjarge it by 10 to 20Ah.


First charge may take a long while.

[expresso]

Charge it before you fit it. And then discharge about 10Ah from it and test by charging again. If all ends with all cells together you won!

If you will store it for more than a week or two, then dischjarge it by 10 to 20Ah.


First charge may take a long while.

yes i plan to do that before it goes in the chair for its final resting spot - i am a while away before that happens - with me - its the little things that hold me up - like waiting for help to do something - to install - take out - flip it - etc, while i am working -

right now - i have to test fit in the chair first before i can proceed - that will tell me if its going to be 105ah or 90ah - once thats decided - then i can continue - if its going to be 105ah - then i have to cut the tray to widen it - thats another job for me to do -

if its its goin to be 90ah - then i dont have to cut the tray and can use it as it is - but i think have to redo the numbers for the cell groups - if thats the case - so right now - it may be a week before i can take the chair and clear it from its LEAD - fix the divider if i can - and test fit the pack -

i will just add a few cells to make a shell sort of with extra roll on top to see if it fits in the area first - if it clears the divider - i wont screw nothing down - once that clears - if it does - move on to next step - hopefully it clears - and hopefully i can cut the tray without ruining it - or else another set back which takes weeks for me to get back on track - so far so good -

[steves1977uk]

Interesting comment about Linux via Neowin...

Prove to me Linux is better? Is it more secure? Is it more reliable? Does it just work? What evidence do you have?

As an IT professional I will tell you a secret. Linux is the farthest behind in security, least reliable, and has no driver model or driver api which means breaks and incompatibilities.

Want proof? Go get a 4 year old distro on real PC hardware (not a VM). Run updates and let me know how many survive 2 distro updates before barfing?

No really prove me wrong and take the Linux update challenge? Xorg WILL FAIL. Guaranteed. WiFi will break. Gimp may not work. Raid may break if system goes to init to nasty SystemD. Loads and loads of fun!

Meanwhile you can get a system with win 7 upgrade to SP 1, 8, 8.1, and10 and all drivers will work except for an old ATI card. Why? Stallman wants open hardware so GNU Linux is defective by design with driver api. No binary blobs and a recompile of each driver due to a Linux being changed. Ridiculous!

Windows, Solaris, FreeBSD, and macosx do not have this problem.

Hardware can not be open due to parents.

Steve

[Burgerman]

i left it for now - will try another roll later

Roll???
What is one?


I just build the full side/bottom or whatever you call it. Then stand all cells in. Then put the other full side/end on with a small hammer gently. All done.

[Scollard]

Expresso, I took into account the 90 Ah pack when I separated out the 8 cells for the 7th row. If you make the pack as I indicated and left the 7th row off your would have 8 cells running between 397 mAh and 405 mAh. Ok not as good as within 2 mAh but within 8 mAh and I have to think that is close enough, especially since there is no BMS.

[Scollard]

so the bottom all fit in the tray - But i will have no room to run any wires down the sides to the bottom of the pack - the only wire i can do are the thin balance wires - which i think thats fine - but 12 AWG or 10 AWG i dont have to room to snake them down the sides to the bottom - and i would need to do that if i add the top 8 Cells for a 105 ah pack -

here is the pics - any suggestions - that i may be missing ?

No. Trust me, they will fit. Once you fit the blocks together you will gain 2-3mm and that will be enough to run 10 or 12 AWG wire from the bottom of the pack to the 7th row on top.

The blocks looked good for the bottom of the pack. Remember the top of the pack is a different block config. Send a picture of how you think the top should be dome before you start knocking them together.

[expresso]

Expresso, I took into account the 90 Ah pack when I separated out the 8 cells for the 7th row. If you make the pack as I indicated and left the 7th row off your would have 8 cells running between 397 mAh and 405 mAh. Ok not as good as within 2 mAh but within 8 mAh and I have to think that is close enough, especially since there is no BMS.

Oh ok very good - i did that myself just to see what it would be if i removed them also - and yes its 8 mAh off rather than 2 - even 8 sounds great to me -

my first concern is if it fits in the chair - my divider is in the way - i have things over it - for seat lift tilt etc, - so i am limited how much i can raise it - if i can make it fit - then its my battery tray i have to do something about - as it is - i wont be able to run wires down the pack to the bottom

what is the smallest AWG i can use for attaching the top 8 Cells if i do the 105Ah - - would 12 AWG be ok ? if i can make 12 AWG fit ? 8 AWG may be too thick and even 10 but i can try them first -

thanks

[expresso]

i left it for now - will try another roll later

Roll???
What is one?


I just build the full side/bottom or whatever you call it. Then stand all cells in. Then put the other full side/end on with a small hammer gently. All done.

I may be connecting them different from everyone else - the pic shows the bottom - i first connected 4 side by side to make 8 long - and i add to it making it 6 wide - i am doing one block at a time to add to it - they are very tight - and i have to direct someone else to use the hammer - which as you know - can be tricky - they hit too hard or too soft or at a angle etc, - so i am being careful and taking it slow - since i dont want to break any now - i wont be able to take them apart if i do -

i did get a few extra but not enough to make the whole pack - what i mean by a roll is - 4 blocks long way side by side - i called it a roll -

Scollard - i posted the same time you were and didnt see your post before i asked about the wiring - - so far you been right so i am going with its going to work with the 105ah and wiring also in the tray with me not having to cut it up -

i rather leave it as is - so its simple to remove - slide it out and back etc, - has the strap to pull it - if i have to cut it - it will weaken it for sure - but would still be fine - if i have no choice - - what i can do is - once i feel its cleared to fit 105ah - then i just make it and leave the tray for last - once all made wiring in place etc, - i have a friend drop it in the tray and then hope it fits

ok good one thing i dont have to worry about right now - i just have to wait for a friend to remove the LEAD - and work on the divider now - then test the fit with the tray and some cells to see -

[expresso]

this is how i will make the TOP - its upside down - as if it were the bottom - the top would be flipped over with the feet facing up -

[Burgerman]

OK. Some of those are not together correctly. And the ones turned the other way may never be as they dont go together like that.

If you miss one tiny tab/connector then it all gets out of hand. You really have to build them in full rows at a time. Or it gets difficult...

And in one bit assembled that will be very heavy. 63lb of cells. I did my last one in two parts. So it could be lifted easily.

[expresso]

OK. Some of those are not together correctly. And the ones turned the other way may never be as they dont go together like that.

If you miss one tiny tab/connector then it all gets out of hand. You really have to build them in full rows at a time. Or it gets difficult...

And in one bit assembled that will be very heavy. I did my last one in two parts. So it could be lifted easily.

Opps my mistake - i went too much - its too wide - it will be one roll down the sides and then double rolls in the middle - should have been 3 double rolls in the middle - and one roll each side - making 8 rolls -

i made it 10

but besides that - they are all fitted correctly to snap in - i didnt do it - and its upside down - this would be flipped over - same thing - just to show how i will make the top row - i think its correct other than the fact i made it 10 rolls instead of 8