S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[Burgerman]

DOES IT Still make you nervous charging at 35 Amps?

I use 2 pl8 chargers at once to charge my 45V pack at 40 + 40 Amps. Sounds quite busy! 2x 30v 40A power supplies as well. But doesent take long. So soon goes silent again.

[expresso]

actually no it dosnt - music to my ears - i am waiting for it rev. up now -

40A i am worried because of the fuse - i feel its going to blow sooner or later and then i have to make a new cable that i dont want to do now -

i am itching to break my 22 mile record so far - if not too breezy tomorrow - i try it - but weather got cooler now - in the 70s from the 80s last week -

72 tomorrow - if its sunny and not windy - maybe its ok - but when moving at full speed in the shade - can be chilly still

and i have to be alone to do this - so if a friend wants to ride - i wait another time to do my record ride - he can do it if he takes the bus one way - then cross with me - he wont do it - i know him -

anything new i want to ride to or go etc, - he gets worried - his battery - this or that etc, - makes up new reasons not to - i dont want to waste time hanging around the same area all the time - now is the time to ride - just ride i tell him -

[Burgerman]

anything new i want to ride to or go etc, - he gets worried - his battery - this or that etc, - makes up new reasons not to - i dont want to waste time hanging around the same area all the time

Thats called lead "conditioning", a desease you and all lead powered users dont realise you have. And is a subconsous thing. An internal mental range limit system. Stops you trying things for fear of running out getting home. Same users will tell you that their chair is fine and has enough range for their needs.

[expresso]

Correct - BM - today is a breezy day - so not a great day for a long distance ride - my friend wants to go to Central Park - so i will do that with him today - i can only do my bridge trip alone when i go - unless he wants to ride the bus one way up to the bridge - i would ride alone and meet him at the bridge - at least one time -

he has fear of breaking down far away this and that etc, - i dont disagree with that - but i am not going to worry about it - unless i have a reason to - if he wants to stay home and just ride around close by same place - he can - i wont ask him to ride along - the whole point of me doing the battery is that i dont have to worry about range - any chair new or old can break down for any reason - what can you do -

as far as i am concerned - all my quickie chairs - NEVER Broke down where i was stuck - besides changing batteries and wheels - casters etc, - thats it - not to they wont - i just never felt worried that it would let me down that way -

now the P222 chair with the ADD ON - since i now know the cable is not working - the ADD ON is not working because of the cable - i dont use that chair till i get it checked and fixed - which is next friday on the 17th - - chair works with lead - but since i cant see whats wrong - i cant know for sure - it can be a loose cable also - if thats the case and the main cable to the battery is really loose - then it can stop the chair - so i am not using it because of that reason -

the tech installed it last - i didnt see 100% how it was bolted down etc, - i say 99% is just the Cable added for the ADD ON - thats the issue - but never know - and no reason to risk it -

but my new chair - i have no reason to believe anything is wrong etc, - therefore no reason not to just use it - what can you do - either you do it or stay home if that makes him feel safer - my plan is this - i have no plan really - but
worst case - get help and call a taxi - - thats my only plan - but i dont plan to do either because i WONT GET STUCK - if you worry about that too much - you dont do anything -

when i first met this friend here - lives in my building - he hardly went anywhere - it took me a while to settle down - after a divorce etc, - my own place - getting things in order and getting my first Chair - i didnt have one when i moved here - i drove my car still at that time -

but once i got settled - i started to use the chair and explore a bit - at first i went to south street seaport and though that was a big deal - maybe 6 miles - haha - slowly keep going more and more till i made it all around the seaport- freedom tower etc, - fast forward to today - that trip now is a warm up - means nothing - thats a short trip for me now - thats about 10 to 12 mile around with out going further up north -

he hasnt been this far before i got him going - he needs to get a New chair first - i suggest my model - do a little ADD ON pack to that one - and he be fine - he needs to make effort to learn a bit - how to charge it etc, PL 8 - this and that - if he does that - and is really willing - i can help him that way - but that wont happen - because hes not the type to make effort to learn - or do anything the way i do it - he just wants plug and play - thats fine - but i wont be helping him if he wants to do a BMS system - i can give him the BMS i have - i can help him make the pack - wires etc, - but he has to fund it - this way its his money being lost when it dosnt work as planned with the BMS -

if he does it the way i did - no BMS - thanks to you - then i help him if he makes the effort and funds some also - thats the problem - he wont fund anything - and i cant just give everything away - cant pay for everything - if hes serious - he make the effort -

but hes fine he says - so who am i to say other wise -

now if Quickiee2 - gets my model chair next one - i would do it for her - the whole chair pack - like mines - she will make use of it - and it be well worth it - but she also has to at least make effort to charge etc, PL 8 - and once she did - she will love it also -i am sure -

thing is this - her chair with the GB motors - does very well with battery life - so she really dosnt need it for that chair - but if she ever changes chair model - it wont be the same with out the GB motors - she may feel the difference then - range drops compared to her GB motor chair - i feel she can hang in there with my chair with the ADD ON - - but not the full pack chair -

videos will be on my channel - expresso4712 Youtube if anyone wants to watch them - i checked it myself - watched some on the TV - not too bad actually

today should be Central park - lets see where we end up in there -

[Burgerman]

but he has to fund it - this way its his money being lost when it dosnt work as planned with the BMS -

if he does it the way i did - no BMS - thanks to you - then i help him if he makes

Do you know what makes me laugh? Go to any lithium battery supplier and they will all tell you a BMS is essential. And they are all brainwashed. You know its not. You have seen how it works. But the same mentality almost crashed an airliner. That dreamliners battery fire was BMS induced...

Along with being responsible for countless fires they cause battery deaths, reliability issues, and everyone KNOWS that you gotta have one. Every battery related forum has endless discussions on charging and bms systems and the best way to fix something... All pointless!

[expresso]

yeah they all say that and they all spread it that way from the start - so from day one - anyone and everyone will be told that a BMS is needed -

and if you dont get involved and charge the correct way - etc. like i now do - then they have to use a BMS - or else it be ruined in short time - but they dont explain it the correct way from the start -

if you tell them your not using a BMS - they all makes strange faces and swear its not good etc, - they dont know shit

just got home charging - short run today - Central Park - was cold here - for me at least - will post video later - this one should be nice one i think -

[Burgerman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1kGMCfb2xw Expresso, and other computer virgins using win 10 this is for you.

[steves1977uk]

http://www.majorgeeks.com/mg/sortname/w ... fixes.html Most Windows 10 privacy apps are listed here.

Steve

[Burgerman]

And just so you understand, you dont need to use any of these apps to make it private. As long as you can drive your computer! I always fix all this, and make it a clean safe installation as soon as I install windows. Its easy enough. A small price to pay for a free operating system. But most users are less capable. And bill wants to push his advertising and services!

[expresso]

http://www.majorgeeks.com/mg/sortname/windows_10_fixes.html Most Windows 10 privacy apps are listed here.

Steve

thanks - i check those out - i dont stress going crazy over tall this stuff - i like to live my life at times you know who cares - like they dont know anyway - you think a few little tweeks and your private -

but every little bit helps - makes you feel private - or just download Thor browser - then its a big red flag and you be monitored private or not -

i will try a few of those programs - we should all be private from the start anyway - funny how they tell you how important it is to keep all your stuff safe - this and than - and then they are the ones breaking into it -

[expresso]

BM - your may right - i cant seem to ride long enough to drain the pack - i did the GWB today - i was really expecting to use more miles total but cant seem to break 23 mile record so far -

i found a good way to get to the bridge - took 11 miles - then i crossed it into NJ and back - total was 22.5 - on chair - App on phone GPS said 23 miles

here is the snapshot - Monitor the Cells before i started the charge - i was expecting 30 miles -

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid= ... gK6V6piIIw

[Burgerman]

May be right?

You are still over 26v... You will need to get up earlier, take packing up!

[expresso]

yeah i am amazed at it really - its almost done charging - i love it - it may end at about 55 ah put back in -

go figure - i messed up my camera angle and got bad video - and the zoom makes it too grainy so not good - - i did get a little of it - but not worried - will do again for sure

now that i know the right road to take me there - i have to get up earlier and continue around the freedom tower after i do the bridge again just to see how much more i can do - that may add another 8 to 10 miles to the trip -

still bring me to about 33 miles - should still have 8 miles left easy after that -

too bad no one else can do this with me now - its a nice ride - was a nice day - just beeped - should be done very soon -

[Scollard]

Barely used half your capacity Expresso. You need to look for a longer trip. You probably could have pulled that one off with your Add-on chair.

[expresso]

yeah i think your right scollard - i could have - but i would be down low for sure with the ADD ON - i may try it one day with the ADD ON and see if i can pull it off - once i get it checked and going again - tech coming next week on the 17th -

i am impressed -

[expresso]

Done -

[Burgerman]

You always use less than you put back, usually about 6 percent going by my own chairs.

So your 56Ah returned was really less by about 3 or 4Ah. So about half that 105Ah.

[expresso]

thats pretty good - i am happy so far - its solid - fast - i wonder at what point would i loose a green bar on my joystick - maybe after 35 miles or at least 30 miles - i know what your going to say - dont worry about the joystick lights etc,

Now i dont worry about them for real - i shouldnt loose any greens any more - Now the challenge is to TRY to loose a green

the joystick is still a good indicator to keep you aware if something is not right - just like my ADD ON Chair - thats how i knew something was OFF - for example - i know i didnt loose any greens after 23 miles - maybe wont till after 30 miles -

now if i seen the green lost at 18 miles - i know something is Off - or they are getting worn out for some reason - you get to know your chair more or less and that is just a more or less indicator - maybe not be accurate - but dosnt have to be - to realize something is off -

once i get my ADD ON chair back and going - will use it to test it again - range etc, and monitor when i loose a green - how many miles at the time etc, - just to have a base line to work off - since i found a nice way to get to the GWB now - i wonder if i can pull it off with the ADD ON - if i use the same road - to get there and cross the bridge and back - took 13 miles - then the ride back which can add another 10 to 12 depending - which way you take back -

the ADD ON chair is a lighter chair - but heavier batteries - LEAD in there - plus the 36ah pack - so in the end - maybe same weight - it does wheelie alot more so maybe thats killing my battery more also - - i will feel it out once i get it going again next weekend -

[Burgerman]

thats pretty good - i am happy so far - its solid - fast - i wonder at what point would i loose a green bar on my joystick - maybe after 35 miles or at least 30 miles - i know what your going to say - dont worry about the joystick lights etc,

On the full pack chair. Once you begin losing lights then it will lose them fast. Very fast. When lithium is done its done! If you get to the reds or close you must stop. And be rescued. All the lights can really tell you is when the pack is at about 95 percent empty.

THIS is what the little meter that Shirley sent is for. So when you get near the end, you can see that no single cell (group) is going to be empty before the rest. That would be bad... You would look at it when stopped, and see 8 voltages. The lowest one is the important one.

2.8V to 2.7V and thats as low as you want to go. 2.5V According to headway.
No damage till 2V. But that happens about 400 yards later...

It stays good, stays good, stays good, falls of a cliff!

[shirley_hkg]

Your gauge will not tell you anything now , because there is no lead inside .

Set the low voltage alarm of the monitor at 2.8V .

Use it when you lose a green. When the alarm sounds, you should consider NOT going any further.

I can assure you of that one over discharge will ruin your pack. Yes, just once.

[expresso]

i see - well again i mentioned it before i believe - its useless to me since i wont be able to see the monitor anyway - but the alarm part may be useful - if i hear the alarm go off - then i would know - i havnt explored how to use that thing or set it up - let alone connect it to the pack - not sure how that would work out - even so - i would have to be near home or at home when reaching the end - if the alarm goes off and i am far away - i am screwed -
i guess i can try to take a Cab at that point -

i dont expect to get that far down anyway - if 23 miles takes half of my pack - i have more to get before i need to worry and i may not ever get that far - i have to feel it out and take a longer ride if i even Can -- i tried and still it ended up only 23 miles round trip - took 4 hours - and i am not a morning person so i am not getting up at 6am to ride around thats for sure

If i did get the monitor alarm thing to work - if i figured it out - i have to connect it to the pack and leave it there in the chair connected - i wont be able to see it - just hear the alarm - maybe also - with all the noise here - i may not even hear that

or what if i can use the Anderson connector i have on the chair - for the ADD ON - is there a way i can make the alarm monitor thing with an Anderson end also - then can have it connected there for the alarm ? will look funny leaving it there -

also dosnt that drain the battery if i left it connected ?

[expresso]

thats pretty good - i am happy so far - its solid - fast - i wonder at what point would i loose a green bar on my joystick - maybe after 35 miles or at least 30 miles - i know what your going to say - dont worry about the joystick lights etc,

On the full pack chair. Once you begin losing lights then it will lose them fast. Very fast. When lithium is done its done! If you get to the reds or close you must stop. And be rescued. All the lights can really tell you is when the pack is at about 95 percent empty.

THIS is what the little meter that Shirley sent is for. So when you get near the end, you can see that no single cell (group) is going to be empty before the rest. That would be bad... You would look at it when stopped, and see 8 voltages. The lowest one is the important one.

2.8V to 2.7V and thats as low as you want to go. 2.5V According to headway.
No damage till 2V. But that happens about 400 yards later...

It stays good, stays good, stays good, falls of a cliff!

so really i should keep the trips at or below lets say 35 miles - to make sure it should get that low before recharging - so even if it can do 40 miles or 45 miles before stopping - i dont want to get that far down - and if i see myself doing alot miles often - where it can be in the low range - i can then connect the ADD ON pack to it - and worries be gone

[expresso]

Your gauge will not tell you anything now , because there is no lead inside .

Set the low voltage alarm of the monitor at 2.8V .

Use it when you lose a green. When the alarm sounds, you should consider NOT going any further.

I can assure you of that one over discharge will ruin your pack. Yes, just once.

thanks for the heads up - that would really suck if that happened - i have to keep that in mind now - maybe figure out how to use that monitor you got me -

[Burgerman]

That was the point!

[expresso]

That was the point!

its useless if i cant get to it to look at it etc, - the alarm maybe is the only thing - that i can hear maybe -

i got an idea - would i be able to somehow make a XLR connector and connect the monitor to the joystick in the front where you normally charge from ?

now that would enable me to do it myself when i am out - i can stop plug it in and look at it - then take it out to continue -

the way it looks i be alone for any long rides - therefore - unless its something i can do myself - and see it -
not behind me - or in the battery case on the Pack etc, -

Can that be done with the monitor i have - ? or else i just have to keep an eye on the miles i use and get a ballpark figure from recharging etc, like i am doing now -

i know for sure 23 miles is not a problem - i think 30 wont be either - i have to do 30 mile first and then recharge to see how much Ah is put back in to get an idea -

[Burgerman]

It needs to connect to the balance connector. It watches each of the 8 seperate cell voltages.

Because as you run out of power your 8 groups will do so at almost the same time. But there will always be one group that do it first. Thats the one you need to know about. Thats what the monitor is for.

[expresso]

ok then if thats the case - i wont be able to make use of that - i wont be able to view it anyway - the only thing would be the alarm to alert me - but i think before that happens - i should be home already anyway - if i used up about half with 23 miles and 4 hours later - i dont see myself doing that much more that would make me nervous of being too low - but does make me think - i will make sure i am fully charged each time i go out just to be on the safe side

i will try to get 30 miles one day and see how much i used up - then inch my way up to 35 miles and see where take brings the cells - to have a base line - and use the mileage as my monitor - not perfect - but better than nothing -

[Burgerman]

i will try to get 30 miles one day and see how much i used up -

23 miles uses half the pack?
So thats 52.5Ah divided by 23 miles... 2.88Ah per mile.

So 30 miles x 2.88 means you will use up 68.4Ah of your 105... A might over cautious!

[Burgerman]

i will try to get 30 miles one day and see how much i used up -

23 miles uses half the pack?
So thats 52.5Ah divided by 23 miles... 2.28Ah per mile.

So 30 miles x 2.28 means you will use up 68.4Ah of your 105... A might over cautious!

Actually 40 miles x 2.28 means 91Ah so still tons left...

At 2.88Ah per mile, your 105Ah will take you 46 miles and a bit.

[expresso]

ok so 35 to 40 miles is about where i should limit too - which i bet wont reach that anyway - i though the bridge ride was going to be easy 30 -

i will try to break 23 miles one day - if i get up early on a nice day - i can try the bridge again - believe it or not - i started to record it once i got there - and my mistake - i didnt ajust the camera enough and it was facing the floor for the bridge -

i got just a few mins but i was trying to hold it with my hand - didnt go a good job at all - i didnt bother to even process it to post it - - i will make sure the next one will be better - in order to get close to 35 miles - i have to make a similar trip to the bridge and back and keep going all the way around to the end of the city freedom tower - past the seaport and will bring me back close to home - that should add a good 10 miles - i believe more or less -

i will wear out my tires in 3 months i think