PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

You realize that they are all copper? And two are zinc plated?

Use the heavier one... It looks almost adequate to just crimp? Provided the wire is a close fit. But maybe not quite its hard to tell from pics. The others are just thin soft copper tube and must be soldered.

[expresso]

yes - i do - realize that - i used on my pack the copper ones -

i found the heavy duty kind from the place where i got the breaker from and i like how they feel - i have about 4 wires to make - replace the two power cables on the top Row and then make two cables for the Main SB50 to battery and going to the breaker - and back

will use the thicker ones and see how they feel when crimping and solder etc, -

i copper ones were fine also when i made the pack - decent size room for the wire and works good with solder - i hope they last for many years after i finish it this time and put it back -

[Burgerman]

The thin ones are fine soldered.

[expresso]

Ok finally redone the Pack with a 100A breaker in the Wire - i packed it a little better this time to keep dust out and cushioned both ends - its a very snug fit - wont be moving at all in there - dosnt look pretty - alot of tape around - and the wiring i did on the charge wires - ADD On etc, - on my next pack - will make those wires longer -

its very hard to connect and disconnect this pack - wiring a bit too short and being a tight area to work with - makes it much harder than it needs to be - its done - i hope this is it now - would love to never have to take it out again charge works - i just have to ride it around some and charge etc, - i want to make sure the balance wires etc, are good and were not stressed or pulled on when trying to connect the pack and install it -

thanks to Scollard - BM for helping me out with this breaker thing - i feel better at least now knowing i have some protection - i hope it never trips at all -

also those heavy duty lugs i got this time - they are MUCH better for crimping for sure - wire is a perfect fit for crimping but harder to add some solder in there - so had use little less solder -

it was a very solid feel after crimping - then after the soldered - done - never coming apart - i wonder for the next time - if its better to get a larger 6 AWG lugs to make it easier to solder them after crimping -

[expresso]

breaker

[expresso]

heavy duty lugs

[Burgerman]

It shames the stock powerchair wiring.

[expresso]

It shames the stock powerchair wiring.

yeah - really does and i am new and never done this - i am sure its not the best soldering job done but its solid and wont come apart for sure - with heat shrink looks very nice - the lugs are very good - even for crimping alone i think - but since i am no expert here - i was only able to add a little solder in there - was too tight a fit - - wasnt able to pull apart before i soldered it - and after forget it

i be very very shocked if they ever failed that way -

would using these heavy duty lugs at 6AWG for 8 AWG wire and add a bit more solder - instead of one piece - i may be able to add 2 or 3 easy - for the future - would that be a good idea ?

these lugs are True to size and thick walled compared to the rest of the pack -

[expresso]

now going out in the COLD to test it a bit - take a quick run and recharge to watch the graphs - need to make sure no wiring was damaged during install - the small balance wiring -

[Scollard]

now going out in the COLD to test it a bit - take a quick run and recharge to watch the graphs - need to make sure no wiring was damaged during install - the small balance wiring -

Good Job. You're well on the way to becoming an Expert now.

[expresso]

thanks Scollard - 12 miles - everything seems fine and charges up as before - graphs etc, - i feel much better now - i was really worried that the wiring on the balance wires got pulled -

since the graphs show fine - i believe its all good - hopefully for many years

[Burgerman]

Better than before... All lines stay together.

[ex-Gooserider]

Solder is NOT GLUE! You do not want to use a larger size crimp than what is needed to match the wire size being used if you have a choice.... Obviously if you are trying to get multiple wires into the same crimp terminal, then you have to use what fits, but even then you want as snug as possible, so that you have a good MECHANICAL connection before adding solder...

As long as there is enough solder to make a good connection, less is BETTER....

ex-Gooserider

[expresso]

ok - the crimp was solid - much better fit for sure - 8 AWG with the 8 AWG lug - it was a very snug fit - i was only able to slide in one piece of solder in there - crimp and heat it up - on the other lugs i used - it was a thinner lug - a bit more room i was able to fit two piece and sometimes a third - but at least two -

this one - i was only able to use one - was just too tight to fit anything else after - but felt great before the solder and after wards

it was crimped down hard strong

[LROBBINS]

One piece of solder should be plenty. You just need the wet the surfaces inside to ensure connectivity.

[shirley_hkg]

ADD-ON for vacation is taking shape .

[expresso]

looks nice - how large is that pack ?

the BMS is that the same kind you sent me ?

[shirley_hkg]

There are 24 cells , 40152 @ 15AH . .

It will be put inside a SS box , with inside dimensions 358 X 88 X 270 H.

Same BMS but with bigger output @60A continuous .

[expresso]

Same size as mines - 36ah ? looks bigger in that picture

what size did you send me the BMS - ? how many Amps can it handle - just so i know

you will hang in the rear also of the chair - but in a SS box ?

[expresso]

Same size as mines - 36ah ? looks bigger in that picture i just realized 6 in a row there - i am used to seeing 8 -

oh you used 15ah cells- so 45ah then - mines are 12ah for the ADD ON - will use 15ah also next time

what size did you send me the BMS - ? how many Amps can it handle - just so i know

you will hang in the rear also of the chair - but in a SS box ?

[Burgerman]

what size did you send me the BMS - ? how many Amps can it handle - just so i know

Not enough... It also cuts out under load as the voltage drops below what it thinks is safe. Best bet is to connect straight to the battery as you do now, and use the BMS to badly charge the battery. But the PL8 does that better too.

[expresso]

i was just curious - i dont plan to go back to a BMS - - its perfect without one - i was so concerned about this PL 8 thing - but once i started to use it - its really plug and play also - if it wasnt for you BM - for the presets etc,

maybe i would be more concerned about getting it - i dont know how to set it up with the details - but with your presets - its done - simple easy - but on the other hand - Shirley has been using a BMS always and hes been going good with it - hasnt had issues and his packs last a long time also -

i wont go back to one - but if it works for him - dont see why it wont work for someone who wants to use there simple generic charger - someone who dosnt want to get involved or do anything other than plug it in - i dont like having extra wires
i feel i have more than enough already -

[Burgerman]

maybe i would be more concerned about getting it - i dont know how to set it up with the details - but with your presets - its done - simple easy - but on the other hand - Shirley has been using a BMS always and hes been going good with it - hasnt had issues and his packs last a long time also -

He is only using half of the BMS. He connects the battery power directly to the chair, bypassing all of its protection. And only uses its (crappy/slow) balance capability. And he charges to 3.550V instead of 3.650 volts per cell or more, by carefully setting his power supply to this lower voltage. And still he will get worse cell balance and much slower cell balancing than you do with the PL8.

So its not quite that simple!

[expresso]

yes i get that - he removed all of the stuff off my BMS also - it was only balancing during charging - he charges overnight so theres no rush for him - i am sure if you do compare side by side - his way of doing it and PL 8 with no BMS etc,

yes the PL 8 will win of course - but all in all - hes got it working fine his way and hes been doing it for many years i believe - it may not work the same way for someone else here - unless they get a BMS from shirley to just balance the cells - and do nothing else -

but in the end - really just a PL 8 is the best way and even easier - dont have to watch the BMS lights - only advantage is using the same generic chargers they give out - as long as it worked the way Shirleys does for him - its fine - but shirley knows what he is doing also -

the others wont and would cause more work and issues if any arise to deal with then just charge with the PL 8 and thats it - when i try to break it down for a friend what he will need - for the ADD ON - i hear it and see it - hes not trilled about it - thats because he dosnt know what it will take to work it - like i was at first - and also cost to him - and the fact that he barely knows how to reboot a computer after 50 years using one - but does fine talking to oversee girls

that he knows - haha - hes going for a new chair and i want him to get ready for a ADD ON - so when he gets a new chair - have the ADD on ready and connect it with new MK 24 Gels - but dosnt seem like he will do it - and he will just waste those MK and then they the vendors wont even replace them with MK again - he will loose the chance to get it done and should last many many many years with a 45Ah ADD ON - he be happy with it and can finally take some rides with me going the distance -

i suggested something to him - why not - Cut cable out of the loop - for a year - save all that money - which will be alot of money saved - just keep internet and stream netflix etc, then once all done - your free to get the cable again if you want it that bad - i offer him solutions that are do able - - and i will help him also - maybe even consider gifting him mines and i built a new one for myself - thats a big maybe - i feel if someone dosnt invest themselves or want it that bad - i would be just throwing it away since he wont keep up with it to do it right - charging etc, -

i have the BMS from Shirley if he really wanted to go down that road - i would suggest PL 8 - but his choice - i just dont see him doing anything so i take it hes not caring about it - but just complaining bout it

[Burgerman]

as long as it worked the way Shirleys does for him - its fine - but shirley knows what he is doing also -

That's ALWAYS the secret. Knowledge is power.

On the other hand nothing quite as satisfying as seeing all those cell groups at identical voltages and under full control, charging at up to 40A and ending at the same terminal voltage to within 0.000V on screen, 0.002V accuracy, exact Ah returned etc to know its working exactly right!

As for all the PL8 settings, you could do that. You just need to learn what each setting does and why.

If you ask, and no more than 2 at a time I can explain.

[expresso]

as long as it worked the way Shirleys does for him - its fine - but shirley knows what he is doing also -

That's ALWAYS the secret. Knowledge is power.

On the other hand nothing quite as satisfying as seeing all those cell groups at identical voltages and under full control, charging at up to 40A and ending at the same terminal voltage to within 0.000V on screen, 0.002V accuracy, exact Ah returned etc to know its working exactly right!

As for all the PL8 settings, you could do that. You just need to learn what each setting does and why.

If you ask, and no more than 2 at a time I can explain.

thanks - i have to keep that in mind when i do ask for help - its working fine for me this way - not going to change anything - as i get curious - i ask

i agree - i like to see it in action and know its working or its not working - the other way - your just blind with what is going on -

[shirley_hkg]

I'm convinced that PL8 is best , especially for large pack .

It's been 40 months and these sub standard cells don't show any aging yet . They give our freedom to go as far as we want .

You get bonus too . The MK GEL are 6 years old now and still power us 5 days per charge . My last pair were 10 years old, still holding on when we parted .

For us out of the safety net of insurance and social security , replacing an $800 pair MK every 2 years is not subtle .

BMS is WiFi connected and parameters are adjustable through cell phone now as well as real time battery status monitoring .

CUT OFF VOLTAGE CAN BE SET BELOW 3.6V …

[shirley_hkg]

[Burgerman]

It still has weak balance circuits, and bounces voltage up and down all the time for a long time if unbalanced, and takes forever to end a charge. And its not accurate.

[Gnomatic]

BMS is WiFi connected and parameters are adjustable through cell phone now as well as real time battery status monitoring .

That's one quibble I have with the PL8. For all it does, it'd be real nice if it had wifi. I'm not a huge fan of the USB dongle. Just about everything has wifi these days. I can control the thermostat in my home via my PC or phone. Heck even my thermally controlled air intake for my BBQ has wifi. So does my sistrer's fridge!

Come on, FMA Direct!