PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

Grp 24 sized? Will be about 70Ah and dumb BMS. And the 50 mile is ISO miles. Call it 35.

And their controller is 120A. Not 100 with 120 boost like r-net. Their handheld is basic level. No OEM for the customer...

[expresso]

Grp 24 sized? Will be about 70Ah and dumb BMS. And the 50 mile is ISO miles. Call it 35.

And their controller is 120A. Not 100 with 120 boost like r-net. Their handheld is basic level. No OEM for the customer...

yeah i figured something in that area - i was thinking it may be good for about 30 miles - but even so - and even with the basic programmer - would have no choice either way - i never seen or heard of anyone with this chair and you dont find any of these items on ebay etc, -

This may be a Doable option for me - meaning i May be able to get this funded and paid for - Maybe - i wont know till next week when i go and ask about it - IF this was Free to YOU BM or anyone etc, -- Would you take it ? its not the most modern looking - but does have good features also - i am very active now thanks to lithium and travel far - even if i cant get lithium in the chair but am able to get the chair - i can always make another 105ah pack and drop it in anyway - which would be better for me - unless i get it free -

my one big concern is the Drive Chain - or Belt - i was told the Chain would be better overall and more durable - still i think of when i was a kid and the chain comes off the bike - i wonder how common is that with the chair

[Burgerman]

Not in a month of sundays. Looks like something from 1970. Huge load of stuff hanging out the rear. Too wide with fat tyres. Too long. No known oem programmer. Weighs a ton.

[Burgerman]

I have not tested the latest script yet. I got flu. First time in about 30 years. And it felt like I was going to die. Couldn't get breath properly, hot, cold like a bladder infection, and now its almost gone after a week. I even considered an ambulance at times. I would never have believed it. It has left me with a heavy chest infection, and a horrid cough... But I am eating and breathing more normally. So will be getting up again in a few days. At the same time I lost a carer for a week, due to the same thing. And have been relying on one alone. Now she looks ill... O what fun! At least the pressure sore seems good! Good riddance 2016.

[expresso]

Hey sorry to hear about the Flu - that does suck - hope you feel better soon -


i called century 21 again - 24V system uses a 100ah pack and 48V system uses a 55ah pack - i was told - i may shoot for it next week and see what they say - if they agree - i try a demo first - hard to pass this up if i can get it Paid - with lithium already installed -

[Burgerman]

100 isnt bad. but its a heavy chair, to get real good range needs a grp27 normally in one of those chairs. So it will be unlikely to do what your quickie does.

Remember that my 45V chair has 72Ah, my BM2 24v rebuild has 120Ah.

[expresso]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xgL9Mfx_Q2U

this video talks about the battery - i agree - wont be the same as my 646se with range - they claim real world 55 miles - but if it does 30 to 35 miles - not that bad - its plug and play charger at 10A - will be overnight charging for sure

i cant see how i can add a direct cable for a ADD ON to connect to this - i asked about it - was told to wait and see if i can get it paid first - then we can ask the engineer dept. about that - etc, - fair enough - i dont think they will do it though -

can get black tires - Air with sealant installed already - suspension all around - i asked about moving the seat frame back some - was told it can be done about a inch rearward more than the standard - i know its a heavy chair - build like a tank it seems - its not like i am going to be lifting it anyway heavy or not heavy -

i have to at least demo it if the option to get it paid is on the table - if they can do it - and agree for a demo - thats a done deal - if they allow me to demo the chair - they will get it paid - then its up to me - how i feel when i demo it -

[Gnomatic]

May be big, may be heavy, but those 21st Century chairs are built to last. Make "modern" chairs seem like toys.

And speaking of "modern" chairs, what other wheelchair companies are offering chairs with a modern LiFe battery/charger, or a 48v option? In that regard they're way ahead of just about everybody.

If you already have 646se in good working order, and you can get a Group 4 chair like the Bounder funded, it's silly to get another 646se then IMO. Even if insurance won't fork over the $4K for the Bounder lithium, still I'd take the Bounder if I had the choice over a 2nd 646se, and then build your own lithium pack for it

You do most of your journeys on hard, flat surfaces, I think you'd enjoy being able to go 11MPH. Just my two cents.

[Burgerman]

They claim 20 and 25 real world with grp 24 or 27. Already a little optimistic with heavyweight chairs if you ask me. But may just be possible as their motors are supposed to be quite efficient. And I would expect a 100A lithium will get you about 30 percent further than a grp 27. So a 35 mile approx real world. About 5 less than your chair because its very heavy build. Esp if you choose a faster speed option.

If I bought one I would toss the BMS and use the pl8v2 charger... Real problem is the width though with the good fat soft tyres. And maybe the length is a killer. And the rear view isn't pretty.

The 120A limit and 11mph don't add up to me, unless you are used to a pretty gutless chair. Would drive me mad. I like control and it to jump on command. Of course they recognize this. So have a BETTER fix than just tall gearing. At 48V. If you add the date to the price... Because like my chair, they can use say 6mph gearing (good torque and range) and still go 12mph.

[Gnomatic]

If I bought one I would toss the BMS and use the pl8v2 charger... Real problem is the width though with the good fat soft tyres. And maybe the length. A rear view isn't pretty.

Not to mention, their lithium pack costs nearly $4K. Would be shocked if insurance covered, though it doesn't hurt to ask. So if he gets the Bounder with lead, he can build another pack for 1/3rd the price of what 21st Century charges, and he's already got the charger etc.

The DIY pack should be at least as good I would think.

[Burgerman]

But. If he wants the speed without that saggy elastic band feeling on the controls, he needs the 48v one. And they cant offer that with lead because it cant cope. So that means ordering lithium at the same time?

4k for 100Ah lithium!
You can build 3 packs for that.

[expresso]

all this may be true - or maybe not - yes the chair may be a bit heavier - its build like a tank - i have seen One person with an OLD Version of it - with the Big rear tires like a manual - shes about 70 years old i think if not more - every so often i see here - and her chair still going maybe 30 years -

moving on - yes the 4K for the battery is crazy and i wouldnt pay that myself out of my pocket - i decided like Genomatic suggested - why get another same Chair if i can get this boulder for Free - IF i can get it for Free - i am going to demo one first at the very least - i am running 24V now with lithium - feels great to me - dont see why this one wouldnt feel as good or better - i will ask for the 48V but not betting on it - i be very lucky if i get the 24V with lithium - and may even take it if i cant get lithium and do it myself after - there is no other chair that offers this kind of speed - built to last chair - my riding is mostly road surface - yes i do many more hills now than before - we see how that handles the hills -

the width of the chair is the same as my current 646se - unless you add the off road wheels etc, - then its over 28 inches - i am not goin that wide - sticking with the standard short frame width - Black of course - lights - horn - lithium if i can -
seat lift and tilt the same way i have now -

going for top speed - thats it - if i get it and i dont like it that fast or too sluggish for my needs - can always just change out the sprocket and slow it down to gain more bottom end - i get the feeling i wont have to do that - after talking to them about it - i was fine at my weight of 160lbs - i was told there controller gives out about 150A - they offer another controller also - but i would stick with there own - if i get that far -

if this dosnt fly with my vendor insurance etc, - then back to another 646se - Silver this time - same set up - and thats it - i dont see any other chair model i like , looks good - fast and i can make the lithium for the 646se - easy now - thats my plan -

boulder or 646se - one of those chairs i am going for - i may have a shot at boulder - my vendor does not like quickie chairs and didnt want me to get that one either - but he knows me and knows how i am - so there was no issues - and i did the 646se - now i can go there and use the fact that he dosnt like quickie to get the boulder instead he already has acquired about boulder to them a few times already - so it may be a do able option - and he may rather me do any other chair but a quickie - i dont think sunrise quickie gives them a good enough break on costs - thats my feeling - i already spoke to boulder a few times - i made him aware of my vendor - and my sales man name which he recognized his name-

it may just work - MAYBE - or i may get excited and then let down - i find out next week when i go - only thing is i will prolong the process because of wanting a demo of it first - so that means another trip back - maybe a month longer -

no rush - i have my quickie

[expresso]

Not in a month of sundays. Looks like something from 1970. Huge load of stuff hanging out the rear. Too wide with fat tyres. Too long. No known oem programmer. Weighs a ton.

hey the 70's were a great time its not that long a chair with the standard frame size - width same as my current chair and length - you can get a center plate for it - if you like - the swing aways will make it longer

[expresso]

But. If he wants the speed without that saggy elastic band feeling on the controls, he needs the 48v one. And they cant offer that with lead because it cant cope. So that means ordering lithium at the same time?

4k for 100Ah lithium!
You can build 3 packs for that.

i think it be fine with 24V with my size body frame - i am using it now 24V - feels great to me - the chances of getting 48V model - thats a long long shot - - the chances of the 24v model is much better if not with in reach -

4k - thats alot - i agree - but its being paid for - so saves me having to build another one - i may have to anyway if i cant get it with lithium - but will see -

[Gnomatic]

i was told there controller gives out about 150A - they offer another controller also - but i would stick with there own - if i get that far -

Did not know their in-house controller was 150A. If that's legit and apples to apples compared to R-Net 120A, you're getting 25% more power/torque right off the bat. And if you build and put a lithium pack in there, you'll have a battery that can deliver that much current upon request.

After you put your lithium pack in your 646se, did you notice any difference in how the chair handled? Was it more peppy or anything like when going over small obstacles ect?

[Burgerman]

Their in house one is 120A. And looks like it was designed in 1950...

They also offer Dynamic DX2 electronics. (used to be R-Net). Which is 90A and a couple of seconds boost to 120A.

http://wheelchairs.com/electronics.htm

[Burgerman]

Was it more peppy or anything like when going over small obstacles ect?

Having done it a few times. Yes! And easy to feel. 50lb lighter, hardly any volt drop...

[expresso]

i was told there controller gives out about 150A - they offer another controller also - but i would stick with there own - if i get that far -

Did not know their in-house controller was 150A. If that's legit and apples to apples compared to R-Net 120A, you're getting 25% more power/torque right off the bat. And if you build and put a lithium pack in there, you'll have a battery that can deliver that much current upon request.

After you put your lithium pack in your 646se, did you notice any difference in how the chair handled? Was it more peppy or anything like when going over small obstacles ect?

yes i was told 150A about for there own version - if thats true or not - cant say for sure - there website is very dated also - seems to never change so even though it shows 120A controller on there website - i wouldnt be too surprised if its not and may be 150A - or unless that was the 48V model ?

i did feel a bit more peppy with the lithium over the lead - after a short while you just get used it to that way and dont notice a big difference - unless i guess you got back to lead - then you may notice it again -

traction wise - maybe a bit less depends - - the few times i used it with the extra ADD ON also - going over the same areas uphills i done before - got more tippy which is fine with me but felt stable and solid - i felt the extra weight helped from the ADD ON in certain areas - etc, -

[Gnomatic]

yes i was told 150A about for there own version - if thats true or not - cant say for sure - there website is very dated also - seems to never change so even though it shows 120A controller on there website - i wouldnt be too surprised if its not and may be 150A -

If they said 150A on the phone that's probably the right info. Their website is very dated lots of options etc. they have now are not listed bon there.

I'll be adding a steel or lead plate under my lithium pack so I don't change my chair's center of gravity when the lead bats get replaced by LiFe.

[expresso]

that is a good idea if you add something there to bring it closer to what it was before - i though it was great saving over 50 lbs !!! - and i dont have a problem or issues with it this way - since i had that accident crash - it came to my attention maybe maybe that had something also to do with it - that alone - NO - but many other factors also came to play and that was that -

i have to be careful downhills - i couldnt add anything anyway to my chair even if i knew before hand - when i attached the ADD ON a few times - i did notice it different - was a plus at times - but could be a Con if just going flat ground -

you can try it both ways - which ever feels safe secure for you - i guess adding it would be safer

[Burgerman]

Well if thats the case. But sounds unlikely. They updated that page recently to cover the Dynamic DX2. But remember the chair needs more to start with as its built out of heavy stuff... Likewise it needs more battery too.

[expresso]

Well if thats the case. But sounds unlikely. They updated that page recently to cover the Dynamic DX2. But remember the chair needs more to start with as its built out of heavy stuff... Likewise it needs more battery too.

it may not be that bad for a user like me -- light about 160lbs - waiting to hear how heavy it is - be curious to see how much a difference it really is - sometimes you be surprised may not be that much a difference - but those motors are HUGE and HEAVY i think - i read if you get the High Torque Off road motors - they add 100 lbs to it - thats alot -

i wont be getting those - i one i will get would be the smaller version but still may be heavier than my sunrise 8.5 mph motors and the steel is light on the 646se - Aluminum - but the seating is motion concepts which is steel - so go figure -

curious to find out how much a difference it really is

[Burgerman]

Note battery (meter) menu below...
That will allow me to set say 3.35v per cell as 100 percent. (26.8V) and then fine tine until it reads full for first mile or so.
Then set say 3V per cell (24.0V) as the red/end of play.
And set it to VOLTS rather than a fuel gauge.
And 9 other battery meter settings to fine tune for lithium accuracy!
And I can set it to stop the chair completely for safety at (2.8v per cell) 22.4V.

download/file.php?id=5945&mode=view

[steves1977uk]

Wonder why Curtiss-Wright (PGDT) didn't implement this on their controllers?

Steve

[Burgerman]

Because you need a better than OEM to get to it... But it obviously can.
SERVICE appears to unlock the factory stuff thats OEM wont...

[Gnomatic]

Note battery (meter) menu below...
That will allow me to set say 3.35v per cell as 100 percent. (26.8V) and then fine tine until it reads full for first mile or so.
Then set say 3V per cell (24.0V) as the red/end of play.
And set it to VOLTS rather than a fuel gauge.
And 9 other battery meter settings to fine tune for lithium accuracy!
And I can set it to stop the chair completely for safety at (2.8v per cell) 22.4V.

download/file.php?id=5945&mode=view

What controller is this for?

[Burgerman]

Dynamic - gearless brushless in this case.

[Gnomatic]

DX2 then I presume?

Very cool you get rid of the worthless fuel gauge and change it display the voltage.

[Burgerman]

Actually the fuel gauge can be made to work. It will be as garbage as always, but will tell you when to stop before you do...

[steves1977uk]

Because you need a better than OEM to get to it... But it obviously can.
SERVICE appears to unlock the factory stuff thats OEM wont...

That's the next challenge then, to get hold of the SERVICE software

Steve