Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby ex-Gooserider » 31 Jul 2017, 23:14

hotwheels_75 wrote:Still tweaking my programming. BMs settings were a little to responsive for me :shock: my lack of hand control had me zig zagging & bucking around. Got it tamed down a bit. You mentioned to set any torque settings to max. There's a Torque % setting but it resets itself to zero every time I use it. Does that mean it's not supported by my chair or is something causing it to reset?


I usually get an error when I try to download a changed file to the controller - something about it not being a supported value. I just hit the OK box and it resets to the default for that item. IIRC, the error message says that the value isn't supported...

There are several values like this where you can set them on some controllers but not others... Presumably has something to do with the exact firmware loaded (which we don't have the ability to change as far as I know)

(Annoyingly, there is a value for the controller amp rating - the software lets you change it to a higher value, but errors when you try to download it :cry: )

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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby rustyjames » 01 Aug 2017, 00:22

hotwheels_75 wrote:Still tweaking my programming. BMs settings were a little to responsive for me :shock: my lack of hand control had me zig zagging & bucking around. Got it tamed down a bit. You mentioned to set any torque settings to max. There's a Torque % setting but it resets itself to zero every time I use it. Does that mean it's not supported by my chair or is something causing it to reset?


I can't use BM's settings either (no offense intended :D ) just way to squirrley for me, especially when loading up in my van. And, I have others sometimes moving my chair at times, like at the dentists office. The speed pot also helps in these circumstances as well.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 01 Aug 2017, 01:03

ex-Gooserider wrote:
Best I can suggest is draw out top and bottom of the pack and add the plates - then count, several times, and add 10-20%... Remember to count both the two-hole and four-hole plates...

Also you probably won't want them from ev-assemble, but remember all the other stuff needed like balance wires, terminals, etc...

ex-Gooserider


Thanks ex-Goose. I placed my order for batteries, plates & blocks. Have you ordered from evassemble? Take long for processing & shipping your order?

I ordered my charger & accessories. Still need a power supply & wires & terminals. Digikey isn't working for me today, can't do any searches. Looking for the Dsub connection parts.

It's a lot to keep straight!


ex-Gooserider wrote:
I usually get an error when I try to download a changed file to the controller - something about it not being a supported value. I just hit the OK box and it resets to the default for that item. IIRC, the error message says that the value isn't supported...

There are several values like this where you can set them on some controllers but not others... Presumably has something to do with the exact firmware loaded (which we don't have the ability to change as far as I know)

(Annoyingly, there is a value for the controller amp rating - the software lets you change it to a higher value, but errors when you try to download it :cry: )

ex-Gooserider


I haven't gotten any errors yet. I meant to ask anyone are you supposed to use the "controller write" option or click the "program" button? If I click the program button it updates to the new settings. If I click Controller write, it asks for the joystick serial number then loads new settings, Looked to me like both had the same end result... but I'm still a bit clueless. :| pretty sure I was able to change the amp settings in mine. But I'll have to double check
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 01 Aug 2017, 01:24

rustyjames wrote: I can't use BM's settings either (no offense intended :D ) just way to squirrley for me, especially when loading up in my van. And, I have others sometimes moving my chair at times, like at the dentists office. The speed pot also helps in these circumstances as well.


I didn't even go near my van with those settings :shock: lol I don't have a speed pot on that chair but it's very useful on my current chair. I keep the slowest setting very tame for tight quarters like those. People bump my joystick all the time. A lot of "Walkers" are oblivious to it. Lol don't need any destructive mishaps.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 03 Aug 2017, 16:04

https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?keywords=5748676-3

http://www.digikey.ca/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&itemSeq=234807885&uq=636372941399829860

Question to anyone with an answer, will both the above shells work for my charging cable setup? Is one better than the other?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Burgerman » 03 Aug 2017, 21:52

1st is ok. 2nd isn't a connector shell but a huge list!
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Williamclark77 » 03 Aug 2017, 22:16

When I built my last pack I ordered several shells and connectors to try. I really didn't like the metal shells.

Here are the ones I liked best:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/680S17W2103L201/NOR1218-ND/4146273

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/680M17W2203L401/NOR1282-ND/4311798

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/A-FT-25/AE11004-ND/1241836

Those folding shells were much easier to assemble. Those connectors are 17 pin because that's what I needed. Be sure to order the proper pin count you require.

I order a lot of wire and wiring bs from https://www.wirebarn.com. Their TXL or GXL spec automotive wiring is probably the best I've used. By no means the cheapest, but it is real copper wire and reasonable.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 04 Aug 2017, 00:42

Burgerman wrote:1st is ok. 2nd isn't a connector shell but a huge list!


Weird, this is the second https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?keywords=952-025-030R121


Williamclark77 wrote:When I built my last pack I ordered several shells and connectors to try. I really didn't like the metal shells.

Here are the ones I liked best:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/680S17W2103L201/NOR1218-ND/4146273

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/norcomp-inc/680M17W2203L401/NOR1282-ND/4311798

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/assmann-wsw-components/A-FT-25/AE11004-ND/1241836

Those folding shells were much easier to assemble. Those connectors are 17 pin because that's what I needed. Be sure to order the proper pin count you require.

I order a lot of wire and wiring bs from https://www.wirebarn.com. Their TXL or GXL spec automotive wiring is probably the best I've used. By no means the cheapest, but it is real copper wire and reasonable.


Thanks for the suggestions, Will. There's so many different parts & sources floating around, it gets a bit confusing.
I'm building a 64 cell 24v pack. I'm not exactly sure how many pins I need. Two bigger pins for main power & ground & 8 balance wires?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Williamclark77 » 04 Aug 2017, 01:07

hotwheels_75 wrote:I'm building a 64 cell 24v pack. I'm not exactly sure how many pins I need. Two bigger pins for main power & ground & 8 balance wires?


24v is typically 8S, which would be 9 wires plus your two power charge wires. Doubt they make 9 pin versions. So, it would probably be a 10+2, whichever the next amount of pins available over 9 is.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby shirley_hkg » 04 Aug 2017, 03:13

;)
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 04 Aug 2017, 20:46

Williamclark77 wrote:
24v is typically 8S, which would be 9 wires plus your two power charge wires. Doubt they make 9 pin versions. So, it would probably be a 10+2, whichever the next amount of pins available over 9 is.


Initially I was getting 10+3 connectors, but the 17 pin connector you linked is cheaper, so I'll just get those.

What gauge wire did you use for yours?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby ex-Gooserider » 08 Aug 2017, 04:51

I didn't order from Evassemble, but don't have any serious reason to object to them... I went with a Chinese source 'Boka Batteries' recommended by a guy at Headway HQ as they are now wholesale only.... Saved about $200 over EV, and was happy with delivery time, took about 3 weeks.

I got the NorComp 10+3 connectors & shells, the Molex Microfit BMI connectors and the JST-PA-9 connectors for the PL8 from Digikey.

I didn't look to see if I could find the Norcomp or Molex stuff anywhere else, but Digikey was the only place I could find the JST connector in 'retail' quantities....

I got the wire, banana plugs and terminals via E-Bay, MUCH less than Digikey... I'm using some 5 strand ribbon cable for the balance wiring, and silicone wire for the main power wires. The ring terminals I am using on the balance wires are 3M branded crimp on lugs w/ glue lined heat shrink. I also got some glue lined 3-1 shrink tube in an assortment kit from E-bay

Worth noting that the 3M connectors are UL listed, and if properly crimped with a ratchet crimper, should be as good or better connections than soldering... They are also 'automotive and marine' rated, meaning that they are basically waterproof when shrunk... IMHO this is the best choice for the balance wiring. Even if not using the heat shrinkable crimps, I still look for the UL listing as that seems to guarantee more consistent sizing so that you get a solid crimp with the ratchet crimper. I've found some of the non-UL listed crimps are lighter / thinner, and don't give a reliable crimp, even when using a good crimper...

Shells are largely a matter of what you like, the two big things to worry about is the size of the shell, which is usually given based on the equivalent size standard 'D-sub' connector. (The 10+3 Norcomp connectors are 25-pin D-sub equivalent. IIRC, the 17+3 are 35-pin.) The other thing is the 'cable exit position' - what do you prefer, and on the chair end, what works best for cable routing to go from the place where you are putting the plug to the batteries... You can get several different exit angles from parallel to the connector face to right angles to it...

They will talk about shielding level, which is important if dealing with high frequency stuff, but what we are doing is basically DC, so doesn't matter... Thus other than cosmetic, there is no advantage of the 'metallized plastic' over plain plastic (which costs less).... I don't think there is any mechanical advantage to the cast pot-metal shells, so I went with plain plastic.

On the programming software, I always have to play with it a bit each time, as I don't use if often enough to have the interface memorized... However I have found that it is a good verification step to disconnect the chair, close the programming software, and then open everything back up, and re-read the controller in order to verify that it actually shows any changes you made properly...

ex-Gooserider


hotwheels_75 wrote:
ex-Gooserider wrote:
Best I can suggest is draw out top and bottom of the pack and add the plates - then count, several times, and add 10-20%... Remember to count both the two-hole and four-hole plates...

Also you probably won't want them from ev-assemble, but remember all the other stuff needed like balance wires, terminals, etc...

ex-Gooserider


Thanks ex-Goose. I placed my order for batteries, plates & blocks. Have you ordered from evassemble? Take long for processing & shipping your order?

I ordered my charger & accessories. Still need a power supply & wires & terminals. Digikey isn't working for me today, can't do any searches. Looking for the Dsub connection parts.

It's a lot to keep straight!


ex-Gooserider wrote:
I usually get an error when I try to download a changed file to the controller - something about it not being a supported value. I just hit the OK box and it resets to the default for that item. IIRC, the error message says that the value isn't supported...

There are several values like this where you can set them on some controllers but not others... Presumably has something to do with the exact firmware loaded (which we don't have the ability to change as far as I know)

(Annoyingly, there is a value for the controller amp rating - the software lets you change it to a higher value, but errors when you try to download it :cry: )

ex-Gooserider


I haven't gotten any errors yet. I meant to ask anyone are you supposed to use the "controller write" option or click the "program" button? If I click the program button it updates to the new settings. If I click Controller write, it asks for the joystick serial number then loads new settings, Looked to me like both had the same end result... but I'm still a bit clueless. :| pretty sure I was able to change the amp settings in mine. But I'll have to double check
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 11 Aug 2017, 00:14

Getting my parts together. Got my charger, & the recommended cables from revoelectrix. Also got my Dsub connectors & shells. Need to start getting it all assembled. Still need to collect a few more bits.

I also need to choose a power supply.
Been looking at the coolice 2400w, though it'll be 1800w on a 110v input.

I looked at this hobby psu https://www.greathobbies.com/productinfo/?prod_id=SKY20001502

And this pricy higher end unit http://www.mastechpowersupply.com/dc-power-supply/switching-power-supply/mastech-power-supply-hy3050ex-30v-50a-over-voltage-over-current-protection-110v-input/prod_121.html

Been trying to read everything I can. Would appreciate suggestions from anyone using them. I don't necessarily need to charge at full power. I know the 50a psu's can't run the charger at full power, but how long will it take to charge 64cell 24v pack using a 50a psu?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby expresso » 11 Aug 2017, 00:23

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-Power-Supply ... 0011.m1850

if you dont mind used - if cost is a concern - or even if its not a concern - check ebay for others similar also -
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 11 Aug 2017, 00:51

Is that what you use expresso?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby expresso » 11 Aug 2017, 02:33

i am using a similar one - i dont see the one i got anymore on ebay - it was called Juice box by stick products -

same idea - i have a 24V model - and a 12V model same kind - they were used just like the others - i took a chance for the cost - and so far its working fine for me -

75A - more than enough to run the PL8 full blast if you wanted - the 12V model is good for about 18A to 20A max - thats even good for most users

i tend to charge slower now so even the 12V works great - usually around 10A to 15A - depending how far i discharged them - etc,

there are others on Ebay in the same price range -
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 26 Jan 2018, 03:15

Is there an easy way to group individual batteries into balanced cells for building your packs? I just finished my second charge after they sat for 2 months. Now I’m ready to start building my pack. I have 66 cells, need to use 64 of them to build 8 groups of 8 cells? For a 24V setup? Do I have that correct? I have them all recorded in a spreadsheet with cell #, serial # & mAH returned. Thought someone had a quick way of organizing them into groups with similar mAH returned, but can’t find it now.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Burgerman » 26 Jan 2018, 03:26

10 mins with a calculator.

If you need say 8 cells per parallel group, just make sure that that group have the same TOTAL mah returned.

So add up 64 cells, (ignore the two with the highest amount returned before you start and remove them from the equasion).
Divide this figure by 8.
Then make 8 groups that add up to this figure. Ish. Not super critical. But it prevents you having all the worst cells on one group.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 05 Feb 2018, 01:41

Pretty easy actually. Just did it in a spreadsheet.

Now I just need to start the wiring process... I think I have it figured out in my head, but I would appreciate anyone’s assistance to make sure I dont make expensive smoke signals.

I assembled them in parallel groups of 8 in the only shape that will fit my box. So I need to link 4 of the groups of 8 in series to make 2 x 12v packs? I’m not confident in where the balance wires should go. But for each 12v Pack, I run a +cable & - cable that will plug into my chairs power harness. And a balance wire to where each group of 8 is joined?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Burgerman » 05 Feb 2018, 01:56

Just connect all cells as 8S 24V. You never need to think about 12v.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 05 Feb 2018, 02:18

Burgerman wrote:Just connect all cells as 8S 24V. You never need to think about 12v.


I realized that after I posted. I remembered 8s pack.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 07 Feb 2018, 01:09

Anyone have trouble with the 4 hole plates from evassemble not lining up with the battery terminals? Every one of mine looks like it needs the holes drilled out or elongated to fit properly.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Burgerman » 07 Feb 2018, 01:26

Yes I had a batch 5 years ago. I just ordered another set from a place in the UK. Have ordered them since from EV and no problem.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby expresso » 07 Feb 2018, 01:46

hotwheels_75 wrote:Anyone have trouble with the 4 hole plates from evassemble not lining up with the battery terminals? Every one of mine looks like it needs the holes drilled out or elongated to fit properly.



could be you have the wrong size -- ?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 07 Feb 2018, 03:39

I ordered the right ones for the 12ah batteries, but they forgot to send them with my order. They sent them after, so I’m not sure if they sent wrong ones. They’re only off by a slight amount. Had my helper drill them out and now they fit.

Are there photos of how to wire up the 24volt 8s pack to the chairs power harness. I’ve been searching and can’t find what I’m looking for. Originally each 12v lead brick had its own harness and Anderson connector and the chair side harness they plugged into linked them in series an connected to the controller. I’m having a brain fart of what to do there.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby expresso » 07 Feb 2018, 04:11

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6873

this shows some pictures - its just an ADD ON - i made - - with my full pack - i made it one large pack - 24V - i didnt break it into two 12V

my chair it worked perfect this way for me - -

trust me - i am always lost each time i have to tackle it - i just made a another charge cable and always nervous when i make them - luckly my helper saved me twice - when i was soldering the small pins - adding the balance wires - i got solder on two pins - and she managed to break them apart as i kept it hot with another thin object - Twice - worked out

i am lost without pictures - :D
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Burgerman » 07 Feb 2018, 12:31

Your chair runs on 24v. The 12v bit of the loom just connects the two lead batteries together. Throw that bit onto a shelf as you dont need it.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 07 Feb 2018, 19:07

expresso wrote:http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/board/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6873

this shows some pictures - its just an ADD ON - i made - - with my full pack - i made it one large pack - 24V - i didnt break it into two 12V

my chair it worked perfect this way for me - -

trust me - i am always lost each time i have to tackle it - i just made a another charge cable and always nervous when i make them - luckly my helper saved me twice - when i was soldering the small pins - adding the balance wires - i got solder on two pins - and she managed to break them apart as i kept it hot with another thin object - Twice - worked out

i am lost without pictures - :D



I’m very visually oriented too. Hard to wrap my head around some written explanations if I can’t picture how it goes. I have the power harness figured out now I think, your pics will be helpful for my charger cable.

Burgerman wrote:Your chair runs on 24v. The 12v bit of the loom just connects the two lead batteries together. Throw that bit onto a shelf as you dont need it.


I’m aware it runs on 24v. I was thinking My harness was different than it actually is. I didn’t have the chair in front of me. Now that I’ve looked at it, I see it’s a simple fix. My factory power harness connects to an 80amp breaker, is it recommended to keep that between the battery and the controller?
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby Burgerman » 07 Feb 2018, 23:29

Yes.
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Re: Quantum Blast 850 modification & rebuild

Postby hotwheels_75 » 07 Mar 2018, 02:55

can anyone here offer a suggestion why my PL8 is having issues discharging my pack? 8P 8S 24V 96AH. If hooked to a PSU, selecting anything over 3A I get Error Code 139 Discharging exceeded 120 watts. I’m using a preset found here, with settings tweaked by BMs step by step directions in the forum.

It discharges between 6 and 8A max regardless of what I select for discharge rate when regen discharging into a 12V battery.
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