help me

[Burgerman]

So now I need ONE video, of you using the chair around the house and in a straight line at speed.
We cannot go any further unless I see this clearly.

[Burgerman]

mini sauce

???

I also have relatively small home. Doesent stop me doing wheelies and 10kph indoors ALL THE TIME!
Yes I know you cannot do this. But the vid is just to put things into pespective and entertainment! I also mostly use FULL STICK like an on off switch.

You wouldnt like this!

www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

[q700m]

mini sauce

???

Code: Select all

a mini salsa chair

I also have relatively small home. Doesent stop me doing wheelies and 10kph indoors ALL THE TIME!
Yes I know you cannot do this. But the vid is just to put things into pespective and entertainment! I also mostly use FULL STICK like an on off switch.

You wouldnt like this!

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/control.mp4

Ido not exceed 3km/h at home indoors so I guess you don't need much video indoors, you need more video outdoors or not?

[Burgerman]

I need to see you control it in every direction and situation, fast and slow dont care if its indoors or out.

I joined up those videos to make one lowr resolution smaller one. It doesent affect you as you have the correct type. It shows the difference between the ROUND gate restrictor plate that we need, and the square one that is needed for aircraft or cars etc. For those that never considered this.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/JStypes.mp4

The ROUND one means that if you are going fast, you cannot add much turn, without that also slowing down the chair. It restricts the steer sensitivity at speed.
The SQUARE one is horrible on a powerchair because it means you can add full left stick while flat out! Causes wheel to screech or the chair to swerve violently left or right. This CAN be moderated with a software "gate" restrictor. If one exists. It DOES exist in a good RC transmitter as you need this in a helicopter. Or in the event of a tank steered vehicle. It can be added in some wheelchair controllers via programming too. To a degree.

[q700m]

I need to see you control it in every direction and situation, fast and slow dont care if its indoors or out.

I joined up those videos to make one lowr resolution smaller one. It doesent affect you as you have the correct type. It shows the difference between the ROUND gate restrictor plate that we need, and the square one that is needed for aircraft or cars etc. For those that never considered this.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/JStypes.mp4

The ROUND one means that if you are going fast, you cannot add much turn, without that also slowing down the chair. It restricts the steer sensitivity at speed.
The SQUARE one is horrible on a powerchair because it means you can add full left stick while flat out! Causes wheel to screech or the chair to swerve violently left or right. This CAN be moderated with a software "gate" restrictor. If one exists. It DOES exist in a good RC transmitter as you need this in a helicopter. Or in the event of a tank steered vehicle. It can be added in some wheelchair controllers via programming too. To a degree.

excuse me, I didn't understand, is my joystick SQUERE OR ROUND ?

[LROBBINS]

John isn't referring to the entire joystick. Inside the joystick there's may be a plastic plate that limits the movement of the stick. The opening in that plate might be square or round or even some other shape. To find out what is in your joystick, move the stick all the way straight forward then while still pushing forward move it to one side. If it moves straight to the side it has a square restrictor plate (not good for a wheelchair), if it move's back while you move it to the side while keeping forward pressure, it's a round (or something else) restrictor plate. The chair should NOT be turned on while checking this, and if you can't make those moves ask someone else to move the joystick this way while you watch what happens.

John non sta parlando dello justick stesso. Dentro il joystick si può trovare una piastra di plastica che impone limiti sul movemento della stecca. L'apertura di questa piastra potrebbe essere quadrato, o circolare o di qualche altra forma. Per scoprire cosa c'è dentro il tuo, sposta la stecca dritto in avanti e mentre contuia ad applicare qualche pressione in avanti prova a muoverlo verso un lato. Se va in linea retta fino al lato, la piastra o non c'è oppure ha l'apertura quadrata (che non fa bene per guidare una carrozzella). Se la stecca viene spinta parzialmente in dietro mentre staimuovendolo verso il lato, è circolare (o altro, ma più probabilmente circolare). La carrozzella dev'essere spenta mentra va fatto questa prova e se tu non riesce a fare questi movimente chiedi a qualcun altro di fargli mentre tu quarda cosa succede.

[q700m]

the styck moves in a circular manner

[q700m]

I need to see you control it in every direction and situation, fast and slow dont care if its indoors or out.

I joined up those videos to make one lowr resolution smaller one. It doesent affect you as you have the correct type. It shows the difference between the ROUND gate restrictor plate that we need, and the square one that is needed for aircraft or cars etc. For those that never considered this.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/JStypes.mp4

The ROUND one means that if you are going fast, you cannot add much turn, without that also slowing down the chair. It restricts the steer sensitivity at speed.

The SQUARE one is horrible on a powerchair because it means you can add full left stick while flat out! Causes wheel to screech or the chair to swerve violently left or right. This CAN be moderated with a software "gate" restrictor. If one exists. It DOES exist in a good RC transmitter as you need this in a helicopter. Or in the event of a tank steered vehicle. It can be added in some wheelchair controllers via programming too. To a degree.

my edge chair does this.
when I steer even a little to the right or left it reduces forward speed a lot

[q700m]

my edge chair does this.
when I steer even a little to the right or left it reduces forward speed a lot.
can it be programmed this way?

[Burgerman]

Need decent video. So I can properly understand what is going on here. Because non of what you are saying is making any sense after FIVE pages of posts!

[q700m]

Need decent video. So I can properly understand what is going on here. Because non of what you are saying is making any sense after FIVE pages of posts!

please make me an example of the video I have to make, how do I do it?

[Burgerman]

Get someone with a video camera or smart phone to do a 5 minute video or a few shorter ones of you driving your chair in, and ouside of your home. Show me everything. Point out where you dont like/problem.

Steering, starting, stopping. Going through doorways, avoiding obstacles, traveling fast, slow. Show the whole chair. Show the joystick and you using it. Etc.

So I have as much info as possible. So I can see the WHOLE BIG PICTURE! Use the settings I gave you earlier in this thread unaltered.

[q700m]

Get someone with a video camera or smart phone to do a 5 minute video or a few shorter ones of you driving your chair in, and ouside of your home. Show me everything. Point out where you dont like/problem.

Steering, starting, stopping. Going through doorways, avoiding obstacles, traveling fast, slow. Show the whole chair. Show the joystick and you using it. Etc.

So I have as much info as possible. So I can see the WHOLE BIG PICTURE! Use the settings I gave you earlier in this thread unaltered.

should the video be taken from the side or from the front?

[Burgerman]

Both sides, front, rear, on top, underneath and from the future. I want o see as much as possible from all angles.

[q700m]

I could not take video, because the chair on the outside is in driveable for me, with the test settings.
speed 5 the chair goes left and right too fast and swerves I had to stop it to regain control

[daveonwheels]

i believe q700m is not able to drive a powerchair at all due to the nature of his disability.. that said,others with severe CP have succeeded.

[slomobile]

This is a tough one to figure out. I think there are several different issues happening. Loose seat was definitely one. Motor compensation another. Great sleuthing figuring that out.

I think q700m got comfortable with the lowered reaction time brought about by super low motor compensation. Cerebral palsy I think doesn't produce tremor so much as overshoot of the joystick. So when the hand would overshoot the mark, he used to have time to correct hand position before the wheels moved. As much as we don't like that, I think it is what he needs. At least at first. He can move settings closer to your ideal later as confidence is gained.

Definitely keep motor compensation stock. But reduce max and min turn acceleration significantly for now. Maybe 30% or lower until he feels safer.
Reduce "Power" to 70% or lower as well so it doesn't bang doors quite so hard.
Perhaps allow some gap between max and min settings so the controls feel 'softer'.

"when I move the joystick to the right or left, the chair should not move.
on the other hand, if I hold the joystick down to the right or left then the chair can also move quickly.
I don't know if you can do that?"

That sounds like a description of very slow turn acceleration to me.

If proportional joystick cannot suit, maybe a 4 way switch joystick from an arcade game could be used with switch driving.

I think the same result can be done had by programming the proportional stick to behave as a switch joystick. I've never done it though.

[Burgerman]

I could not take video, because the chair on the outside is in driveable for me, with the test settings.
speed 5 the chair goes left and right too fast and swerves I had to stop it to regain control

THIS is exactly what I want to see!!! And want to watch your hand/arm on the joystick while this is happening.

So I can see where the problem is.
But this is the problem. You cannot program the chair to go where YOU want, if you are not pushing the stick which makes it do this, in the correct direction.

And you may still have issues caused by the actual mechanical chairs configuration. I want to SEE this. Because EVERYTHING makes a huge difference.
I feel sure that if you were atualy here, in front of me that I could figure out how to make the chair controlable. But the programming may only be a very small part of this. I have done similar things for people in the past. But you may need alternative input system. What part of your body, has the best response to your will? Head/neck? Mouth, lungs? You are likely going to need an expert locally that can see what you can actually do. Problem is that anyone with the required knowledge is very very hard to find.

Can you control a computer mouse?

"when I move the joystick to the right or left, the chair should not move.
on the other hand, if I hold the joystick down to the right or left then the chair can also move quickly.
I don't know if you can do that?"

That sounds like a description of very slow turn acceleration to me.

He sts this at 1% which makes the chair do nothing, even at full left stick for around 5 seconds. Then accelerate left/right at speed. AFTER you intended it. So while headed for a doorway you break your feet when it misses! Then as its started turning you cannot stop it even with full opposite stick because he sets turn deceleration at 1% too. So the think keeps of turning for 5 seconds regardless of what you do. Hence the first post where he was tipped out on a ramp... Adding this delay to turn acc and turn dec is the exact opposite to what he needs. It doesent stop the miss control happening it just delays it and then stops him from correcting while it keeps turning! Dangerously so.

What he wants is a chair that goes straight regardless of steering input... And that turns when he tells it to do so. A contradiction. The best way to achieve that with a single axis joystick may be to have a gate that only allows a upside down jesus style "cross" so that he can turn or go forwards and back not both at the same time. Or use TWO joystics with a single axis on each. OR use 4 buttons. Or use some other input. Delays to steering controls (the accelerations/decel) isnt the answer.

Nor is reducing power. That just reduces torque. So it wont climb a threshold unless you add a tone more stick. Then it overshoots after the resistance is gone. Same as turning compensation too low.

Adding shit loads of damping will help loads. Bt unles I SEE the problem in action I have no idea!

[q700m]

I have been driving electric chairs for 30 years, I have always lowered all the acceleration and deceleration turns and forwards without any problems of control or crashes

[Burgerman]

Which is *EXACTLY* why I want to see a clear video of what is happening wit the hardware, software, positioning, seating rigidity etc.

TRY setting this as shown below. The YELLOW parts!
Never set advanced stability to more than 50 or 55 as that will make steering MORE twitchy. Do this AES only after testing the Front Drive Rate ON ITS OWN

Front drive rate may be set high if needed for straight line steer sensitivity reduction. That might help you. A or B refers to software versions of a shaped restrictor plate... Try A and B. See if you can feel the difference.

[q700m]

these settings are almost fine for me, but the joystick forward is still very sensitive,
is there a setting to reduce the sensitivity?

[Burgerman]

No movie?

Those settings are dangerous. Back to why you posted the first time 5 pages back. Also those settings have reduced turn sensitivity beyond any rational way to steer. I am actually surprised it turns at all. This is not the answer. What you have dne is basically stop it steering at all! And if it does it is going to accelerate the turn to a miniscule 5% after about 5 seconds. Thats crazy.

Do a video so I can see the problem you are trying to mask.

[q700m]

No movie?

Those settings are dangerous. Back to why you posted the first time 5 pages back. Also those settings have reduced turn sensitivity beyond any rational way to steer. I am actually surprised it turns at all. This is not the answer. What you have dne is basically stop it steering at all! And if it does it is going to accelerate the turn to a miniscule 5% after about 5 seconds. Thats crazy.

Do a video so I can see the problem you are trying to mask.

how do i upload a video here?

[shirley_hkg]

Upload to Youtube

Then put down the link here.

[Burgerman]

Heres a quick vid.
Remember that on this video my settings are quite wild and I wouldnt expect you to use these.

TURN ACCEL 100
TURN DECEL 100
MIN TURN ACCEL 100
MIN TURN DEC 100
TURN SPEED 50
MIN TURN SPEED 25 (although it makes no difference here)
DAMPING 0
Compensation set 5mOhm ABOVE stock figure.
Torque, power, etc all 100.

So you would expect it to be very "sensitive" right?
Well even when wiggled about as hard as I can actually do it, its STILL going straight. It barely has any effect on where I go. IO Bcan still safely steer and drive while doing this all the time.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/doomed/wiggle.mp4

Your settings are at LEAST 10 times slower and less sensitive. And damped, and delayed. How the hell can that be too sensitive?
I dont get it.

[daveonwheels]

fear is the problem i think

[Burgerman]

I fear you may be correct. Did you see what I did there...

Seriously. You cant really have it set up more sensitive than mine and its sluggish and slow. And no amount of accidental left/right can do much harm esp when everything is set at 3% and 100% damping! Try it. Its as i the joystick isnt connected!

[q700m]

how important is it to know the type of joystick mounted on my chair?
https://www.mediafire.com/file/0cvxh3yp ... 1.mp4/file

[Burgerman]

It was important because I did not know the type of gate/rstrictor. That makes a simply huge difference to you if you dont have good hand control. Because it either allows you to add max turn while travelling forwards or it does not!

But this was just a small part of this puzzle. I need to see you struggling to control the chair. From all angles and in the worst conditions. Because non of it is making any sense right now. Hence the video!!!

[q700m]

It was important because I did not know the type of gate/rstrictor. That makes a simply huge difference to you if you dont have good hand control. Because it either allows you to add max turn while travelling forwards or it does not!

But this was just a small part of this puzzle. I need to see you struggling to control the chair. From all angles and in the worst conditions. Because non of it is making any sense right now. Hence the video!!!

have you seen the joystick video?