which chair is best or better.

[Carl]

Hi carlo67,

My name is Carl and I work for Magic Mobility. We make the Frontier V6 range of wheelchairs, including the compact 73 you are looking at. Let me know if you have any questions, either through this thread or via a personal message. As Burgerman said, your distributor isn't quite telling the truth when comparing the Frontier V6 range to the Q6 Edge, They are very different and suit different people. Obviously I am biased as I am an employee of Magic Mobility, but we think our products are more in line with what you are after.

What state of Australia do you live in?

Cheers,

Carl

[carlo67]

I saw my new chair today wow I like it but I haven't try it yet I will try it out in few weeks time . I like technical guy,

he said to me the programmer will be $1000.

[Burgerman]

Which chair?

Beware tech guys... Never met one with any real clue yet. They may exist but seem extremely rare.


Dealer level?
Or some middle level?
Or OEM level that is really useful?

Because OEM is the only one that will really allow you full control over all the important settings and parameters.

[motoman]

[quote="carlo67"
he said to me the programmer will be $1000.[/quote]

Ugh for that kind of money it better be an OEM programmer.

[Burgerman]

Those kinds of prices wouldn't work in the non mobility world.

Hence the software and firmware for my quadcopter controller and autopilot and GPS/accelerometers/gyros/Baro/return home/etc is all free. And way more technical and complicated than a powerchair.

As is the digital servo, and hobby speed controller software and programmers. As is the RC transmitter stuff, Gas Turbine control software, camera control software's, the OBDII Engine diagnostic software, the solar monitoring and data logging software I use, Even the GPS locating and OSD programming software used on my video flight FPV goggles is free.

As is the Roboteq controller programming software, that uses a simple USB lead (like all the rest). It allows me to do anything, including running scripts, modified add on code, and tons greater flexibility than a mobility controller. It also logs, and stores and graphs a multitude of joystick input, battery, and motor output, and output mosfet temperature data.

Free. Download it and take a look. Or watch the vid here: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/BM-MK3-roboteq.htm - it shows about 10 percent of its capability.

1000 dollars??? They are making our lives difficult, will not supply what we need (OEM) and rip us off.

[carlo67]

[quote="Burgerman"]Which chair?HYBRID

Beware tech guys... Never met one with any real clue yet. They may exist but seem extremely rare. LOL


Dealer level? I DON'T KNOW
Or some middle level? I DON'T KNOW
Or OEM level that is really useful? I DON'T KNOW

he said $1000 I think he said it can do everything.

I would like to change basic settings

Forward Acceleration
Reverse Deceleration
Turn Acceleration
Turn Deceleration
Forward Speed
Reverse Speed.
Turning Speed

[Burgerman]

I doubt it can do everything.

The key is OEM?


When you say things like turn acceleration, it means high speed turn acceleration. What about low speed turn acceleration? Or low speed turn deceleration? Etc. So the thing steers indoors.

[falco peregrinus]

My wife has a Q6 Edge. I hate it. The original programming is as bad as it comes, and the damned thing gets hung up between the front and rear castors all the time, with the drive wheels not touching the ground so have no traction. The Quantum controller has a proprietary programming socket, which causes problems when you try and reprogram it, and the chair is BIG. She likes it, but I hate it. I don't recommend it.
Falco.

[Burgerman]

Hung up? Yes. Programming issues? Yes. Big? No. Its pretty small.

But has weedy controller, and small batteries, and so its just 5mph to make torque and range acceptable.
You CAN get 100 amp controller, and 6mph (I think) but then you have a battery problem...

[Fulliautomatix]

My wife has a Q6 Edge. I hate it. The original programming is as bad as it comes, and the damned thing gets hung up between the front and rear castors all the time, with the drive wheels not touching the ground so have no traction. The Quantum controller has a proprietary programming socket, which causes problems when you try and reprogram it, and the chair is BIG. She likes it, but I hate it. I don't recommend it.
Falco.

I have a Q6 Edge and it goes just fine. I've been hung up once on a dip and bogged once on soft ground, but this is an expected limitation of the 6 wheel configuration.
For a 'proper' chair, it's pretty small and fits in all sorts of places.
I don't have tilt so it's low enough to get under tables pretty well.
Originally I had a centre footrest suspended from the seat and that made it longer, now I have the standard footrest mounted on the body for 100mm shorter - this would not work with tilt.
I have the 75A 10kph setup and it gets up to 20km range, I live in a pretty flat area.
Yes, the programming socket is a 5 pin, there is a thread on here to devise an OEM? programmer.
Mine is through Power Mobility and 'serviced' by GS Electronics - presumably yours is too Falco?
I find that the programming setup is just fine as far as steering and 'go'. The settings on #5 are good outdoors and a bit too sudden for indoors sometimes unless you are VERY gentle with the stick.
I find that the GS Electronics guys will at least listen to you and give it a go even if they don't think it's a good idea.

[Burgerman]

I find that the programming setup is just fine as far as steering and 'go'.

Seriously? I think you need to try a chair where all the low speed turn acc and dec as well as high speed turn acc and dec has been set to 100. OFF. And the high and low speed turn rate reduced to the point where it feels easily controllable. Because this is a world away from what you are experiencing!

[Fulliautomatix]

I find that the programming setup is just fine as far as steering and 'go'.

Seriously? I think you need to try a chair where all the low speed turn acc and dec as well as high speed turn acc and dec has been set to 100. OFF. And the high and low speed turn rate reduced to the point where it feels easily controllable. Because this is a world away from what you are experiencing!

Yes, I have an modified F55 with all that.
The 2 chairs are much the same.

[Burgerman]

Cant be.

[Fulliautomatix]

Probably because the F55 has 80A & 2 pole motors.
Soon to be 100A.
But still, there's nothing wrong with the Q6 programming, it certainly is drivable and controllable and responsive.

[Burgerman]

Many will disagree!

I never tested one. But every other pride chair I tried was abysmal. Cant hit a doorway, or fly though a narrow gap for fear of disaster. I cant believe they suddenly made one that has all the accelerations and decelerations set to 100 (off)...

Because that's what it takes.

[falco peregrinus]

If they did, then they missed doing my wife's Q6 Edge. It is the worst chair I have ever driven! Absolutely uncontrollable! It's totally wrecked all the doors and doorways in our house, and she's forever driving over people's toes! Unfortunately she won't let me fix it for her. I know exactly what Burgerman is saying, because I fixed my own (primary) chair (a Jazzy), and turned it from being uncontrollable and a nightmare to drive at any speed into a perfect dream to drive around the house or shops and only just slightly less than what I would consider perfect at top speed. (It seems I have to live with the slight imperfection in responsiveness at top speed.) It took a lot of experimentation to get it spot on, but Burgerman's web pages on the PGDT controller were a fantastic starting point. In fact, if I remember correctly, the only setting I ended up setting differently to Burgerman's recommendations was maximum turning speed - I found 40 better than 45.
Falco

[Burgerman]

If they did, then they missed doing my wife's Q6 Edge. It is the worst chair I have ever driven! Absolutely uncontrollable

This is what others tell me too. I think that if you think its OK you have not experienced a good chair yet. The one with 2 pole motors that was mentioned, and 80 amp controller, was either too weedy to tell, or still has its motor compensation set wrong or something. Because it should be MASSIVELY better than any stock programmed pride chair.

[motoman]

The difference between my 6000Z and my M300 is laughable as far as drive ability goes. Like comparing apples to nuts. The Z is like driving a barge, bashing into door jambs all the time...the 300 is like driving a Maserati, crisp and smooth. Its hard to believe I put up with that thing for nearly 5 years.

[Fulliautomatix]

Yes. I had a 6000Z for a while too. Quite terrible.
I guess I should give up my assertion that the Q6 Edge is quite drivable and join with the masses.
But I know 2 others that go just fine as well.
Anyway...whatever.

[Fulliautomatix]

Here's a video of it, doing up to 7.5kph inside and 10 outside;
http://youtu.be/ogQ0kdsxRdQ
I'm not saying it's best or better or anything, just that the one I have and the ones a couple of friends have drive just fine without wobbling and overshooting and running into doorways.
So if you guys have Q6s that do that, they don't need to.

[falco peregrinus]

So if you guys have Q6s that do that, they don't need to.

I know. That's exactly what I've been trying to tell my wife ever since she got the thing. But I don't think I'll ever convince her. My Jazzy was just as bad as her Q6 when I first got it - reprogramming it turned it from a house-wrecker into a pleasure to drive. Meanwhile, it's me that has to convince her Q6 to go up the ramps into the van and back out again when we get to the destination. My Jazzy behaves itself perfectly going up and down those ramps, now it's reprogrammed. Her Q6 loses traction (because it's a 6-wheeler) and invariably goes anywhere except where I want it to go. It's preference is to take a nose-dive off the ramps and into the cavern between them. Great fun. Especially when I don't have the strength any more to wrestle the thing back onto the ramps. (The roof of the van is too low for anyone to travel in a wheelchair in it so there's never anyone in the chair when it misbehaves. So it's more of a pest than a danger.)
Just from looking at the various options on the Curtis controller vs the VSI on my Jazzy, I get the feeling that it might be possible to get a chair with a Curtis controller to behave itself even better than a chair wth an optimally-programmed PGDT VSI. Anyone got any experience in that regard?
Falco.

[Burgerman]

Stock chairs are all configured so that someone's mum can move it about in a fashion and with about the same sensitivity as stirring a pudding, without smashing into everything really hard. I.e. slamming the stick about with zero skills without much happening fast.
Once all those "accelerations/decelerations" at the low and high speed ends etc, are removed and set to 100 or off, turn rates set to sensible lower levels, things become totally direct. Proportional, accurate, instant and feels like the motors are directly connected to the joystick.

Now, control skills and accuracy result in the same control level as a computer mouse, and get it wrong and you will mow down a room or wheelie out of control. Catch a sleeve? Clear a restaurant... Have the control skills however, and its inch perfect and instantaneous. THIS is where you will find that good batteries and big amp controllers make a massive difference. Most user DONT have these joystick/control skills! Most quadriplegics DONT have adequate hand control! And most users do not hold the pod or stick correctly and so will never be able to have this sort of control.

Your video shows this too. You don't go through any narrow gaps at speed or accelerate hard or anything much so it doesn't show the issues. Trust me it could be hugely more direct. So you can literally torture the tyres and be flat out doing all that stuff and in more confined spaces in total confidence.

To the point where you can FEEL the difference between MK gel and Odyssey batteries, and you can FEEL when they are full or say 3 miles later on quite clearly. You begin to lose that sharp accurate control and it starts to be less predictable.

To make your F55 feel this way you need new 4 pole motors, 100 amp controller, programmed correctly with high motor compensation, and no delays, as well as new, freshly charge Odyssey batteries, heavier cables, and a rearward C of G and solid arm/pod mount. Pod mounted inside the arm. And you need the right hand/joystick technique/position too. Any of that not correct and it feels bad and you wont have this feel.

[falco peregrinus]

Just watched your video. My wife's Q6 couldn't do all that without crashing into things. Either yours is better programmed than hers is, or else her spatial judgement and eyesight are even worse than I thought they were. I think it's the former, because although I could match what you did in my Jazzy, I don't believe I could in her Q6. Makes me wonder if somebody deliberately made the programming worse on her Q6 prior to delivery, in the belief that standard programming was beyond her capability. Alternatively, when she told the salesperson that she liked the programming on the demo chair and wanted hers the same when she got it, perhaps that was a mistake. Perhaps the demo chair had been reprogrammed and programmed badly.
Falco.

[Burgerman]

The problem is that while the programming can be varied by a dealer at the "dealer" level, you cant actually properly fix it without the OEM programming tools that pride keep under lock and key in their "engineering" department. According to mark there is no separate tool/software and they just recompile something at their workshop. So buying pride stuff leaves you at the mercy of whatever some guy thinks is a good idea. So while some are better than others all are still a bit crap!

[falco peregrinus]

So buying pride stuff leaves you at the mercy of whatever some guy thinks is a good idea. So while some are better than others all are still a bit crap!

This seems to be a common problem when companies get too big. In the computer industry, you can substitute HP, IBM, COMPAQ (before & after they joined with HP), and to some extent even Dell and that sentence is true. Once they get big, they think they're big enough to go their own way and make their own standards.
Falco

[carlo67]

hi
I am back lol
I am getting the v6 HYBRID wheelchair very very soon
I can't wait lol but I can't get the programmer for v6 HYBRID .I am very angry with my support guy.

does anybody knows how to get or buy the programmer for v6 HYBRID ?

[Burgerman]

You need the OEM version to program from a PC from P G DRIVES. They likely wont sell you it. And will tell you you don't need it.

[carlo67]

they already have lol

where I can get or buy it

[woodygb]

Check which control system will be fitted to your new chair ...
I did a quick browse of Magic Mobility and there seemed to be a suggestion that the V6 might be supplied with a Dynamics DX2 system.

http://www.mobilityscooterpart.com/prod ... php?id=133

[carlo67]

I think I getting the omni+ I am not sure. I will try to find out, because my technical guy is not helpful with this way. .

I like programming chair and make my own speed profiles.
Can I adjust these options.

Forward Acceleration
Reverse Deceleration
Turn Acceleration
Turn Deceleration
Forward Speed
Reverse Speed.
Turning Speed