S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[Burgerman]

It is. Thats anotheer reason.

But copper oxidises. It goes green... Black evetually. It starts oxidising instantly and thats why we need flux. And that stuff doesent conduct. Its why all decent connectors are plated, and why good cables are tinned...

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/1 ... dation.jpg

See above. ALL copper does this in air.

Unless a crimp uses the right tool, the right terminal, the right cable type, the absolute correct size, solder is always better.

[expresso]

yes thats true - forgot the penny - all the wiring is silver also - for that purpose i would guess now that i know -

all i know is when the girl tried to pull it - it felt welded - didnt move - is it needed - maybe yes maybe no - my only concern is that it stays in place period -

its headshrinked glued etc, - unless i didnt go a good job - and the cables end up bad - other than that - its pretty solid -

i hope they last - because i dont want to redo it - at least not now -

[Burgerman]

its headshrinked glued etc,

Heatsgrink with glue wont make a blind bit of difference if you pull!

[expresso]

well if you pull anything hard enough its going to come loose or break - i mean if a grown man yanks with all his strenght and it dosnt move - that should be good enough -

all depends what its for - but i get it - also those wires are bad most likely they werent sealed correctly from the start -

so lets say - you start off with a clean copper wire - and then connect it - how ever - sealed closed tight - no air goes in or out - water etc, -

like those marine rings with 3m adhesive - there were made for marine in the water use - - they have to be air tight sealed etc, - to protect -

so if those were correctly done - with clean wire to start - they wont go bad - i would think

[Burgerman]

so if those were correctly done - with clean wire to start - they wont go bad - i would think

The heat shrink wont keep air out. It can help... If they are crimped only, and done well, and the cable is tinned, and nothing yanks them out they should be ok. But I wouldnt do it. Heat shrink add almost nothing other than insulation.

If a pro crimp is done correctly, with correct materials and tools you can use it to lift your own weight as long as the cable doesent snap! And they are so tight they have no air space even for tiny oxygen atoms. DIY crimps are not this! If its DIY then solder it...

2 bad battery cable crimps.
Both will "work"...
There are THICK WALLED heavy terminals.

1st one will allow air to oxidise and will be loose and can pull out. Gaps and so high resistance too. Wrong sized die/cable/terminal
2nd one has "ears" and so lost its clamping force and is not tight enough. So it too can come loose and oxidise. Die was too small or cable too small.

Of course if these were correctly soldered they would both be great.

[expresso]

this is the first time i ever owned tools haha - i really never had the need and now i have a garage in the house - two untiilty carts full of stuff -

i worked on cars when i was young but just bullshit stuff - - i was really surprised when i finally got the first cable made 25 pin - charge cable - i didnt think it would happen -

now i dont mind as much - still have to figure out ways to make it nicer - neater or fix the wiring etc, how they exit but for most part - its made well - enough to use and not worry about it -

the XT connectors are a pain - small area to work on and surprised how they handle 90A constant - but such small wire - i mean really 12 AWG is the best fit -

10 AWG is work and dosnt fit flush in the cup - it will be on top of it - they could have made them a little bigger - xt60 forget it - so small - 14 AWG maybe is fine

i used the 90 hoping to snake it under the frame into the batter box to the pack -

[Burgerman]

the XT connectors are a pain - small area to work on and surprised how they handle 90A constant - but such small wire - i mean really 12 AWG is the best fit -

This is because in the hobby world we push stuff to the limits to get high power and low weight.

So silicone cables as an eg. They are low resistance, low oxygen copper, and at these currents they get extremely hot regardless. So silicone insulation because it doesent melt! And the connectors themselves have accurate gold plated contact areas with more area than the cables. And they are soldered so low resistance. Thats why you complain about tight fit...

[expresso]

making me worry about my cables now - i know they are strong but first time doing this - i just hope its good enough to hold on for some time - i cant believe i did a superb job -

but i seen alot worse from videos on utube - trying to learn watching them and i found myself saying - that wasnt good - i did better -

i think i did a decent job for my first time - not going to say its great - but i did my best for my level of skill - - they look nice also - so makes me feel good -


we would be able to see with the charging - how the pack holds up - more or less - - what i hate the most is i have to rely on others to move this thing - thats a problem for me -

or else i wont worry as much - i dont have patience - hate to sit around waiting for someone to move something for me etc, - but what can you do - i am amazed i went this far -

[Burgerman]

Dont worry. It will be fine, Most crimps work ok forever. Yours will be fine. U-tube is 99 percent idiots! Theres some really good stuff, mostly not!!!

Some occasionally dont.
This one went a bit oxidised and so high resistance, and so it heats up...
http://images.matthewsvolvosite.com/b-p ... -fix-6.jpg

[Scollard]

Expresso stop worrying about your crimps. They are fine. Get on with putting it all together so you can test it out.

[shirley_hkg]

What I mean is cramp it first , before soldering.

[Burgerman]

Yes I do that with all.

[expresso]

i will get the last 4 wires done by this week - 1 3 5 7 - i have to add the rings to them to attach to the 7th row - have to size the cable - add the rings - then i will start to finish it up - locktite - rubber sheet between the two -

next week i will make the cable to charge - -- by next weekend - should be ready to test - if nothing else gets in my way here -

[expresso]

ok just about done - all wiring is done and in its final spots - rubber sheet between the two packs - works out great - no need to build up anything to make it level - will be just about level once i add the Caps on the screws in the end -

and it measures just like Scollard said it would - a touch over 9 inch high - its below 9 1/2 inch for sure - so i have a good feeling about the fit now - i will start to screw it down locktite next - and then start on other half of the cables -

this worked out nicely as it comes to the end - fit and finish - looks etc, - very good job Scollard - i wasnt able to vision how the top Row would sit - attach etc, -

like when you watch the painter on channel 13 - starts off and you have no idea what hes going to paint till the last 5 mins of the show - and it all comes together perfect painting - i used to love that show -

[Scollard]

Looking good. That's exactly what I had in mind when I thought it up.

You have gone from Group 24 capacity to Group 27 capacity.

And if you slap on the 36Ah add-on you will have EPIC RANGE.

[expresso]

Looking good. That's exactly what I had in mind when I thought it up.

You have gone from Group 24 capacity to Group 27 capacity.

And if you slap on the 36Ah add-on you will have EPIC RANGE.

i am very happy - looking great - as long as my cable making was good enough to hold up over time - i dont even thing i need to do anything to the divider of my chair -
it may fit just snug this way -

i will wrap the whole thing with a sheet of plastic i have - sort of like a wall just to be safe and keep it clean - around the tray tapped so it stays put with opening for wires to stick out the sides -

i may use the add on to be safe when i go to NJ from NY - i just want to get over the GWB - into NJ - and then i come back - thats a long Ride - but nice - since i be along the water about 90 percent of the way there - then over the bridge and back -

this weekend if warm enough - i will be testing the ADD ON chair - shooting for a 20 mile run and see how much i used up there in battery when i recharge -

[Burgerman]

Scollard wrote:
Looking good. That's exactly what I had in mind when I thought it up.

You have gone from Group 24 capacity to Group 27 capacity.

When you consider he would only get approx 40Ah from a set of grp 24 batteries until it stops, its better than that. Its equal to 105 div by 40 = 2.5 sets of grp 24s. Or 170Ah lead. Thats a group I dont think actually exists... Before the addon.

Or look at it this way. Yesterday He went 10 miles on 30Ah returned. Thats about 25Ah used. Around 2.5Ah per mile even carrying the addon and the heavy lead bricks at 112lb... So maybe 2Ah per mile without all the weight? 105Ah div by 2Ah per mile is about 50 miles. Call it 40 miles for safety. With 10Ah in reserve. Thats without the addon.

With addon thats another 36Ah. Or around 15 to 18 miles. So 68 miles in theory, 55 is safe with room to spare for about FIFTEEN miles reserve!

[Burgerman]

Its hard to compare as my bm3 is 45v but I once tried while dog walking to eat up a lot of battery but I was going slow as he was old, and too cold. But after about 10 miles mon, 10 tuesday, and pub etc, moving indoors all day twice. I expected it would be pretty low. It was about half discharged.

[Burgerman]

this weekend if warm enough - i will be testing the ADD ON chair - shooting for a 20 mile run and see how much i used up there in battery when i recharge -

With lithium you generally put back about 10 and a half Ah if you take out 10. About 5% or less extra.

With lead its less simple. A nearly full battery can require an extra 40% as its all wasted in splitting water and recombining and it makes heat. But if its heavily discharged you do better because the first part of the recharge is far more efficient. So its not as easy as that. It makes it seem that you used more than you did.

[expresso]

while in the program settings - i noticed the low volt cutoff is set at 18V on the pilot + chair - this is the chair with the ADD ON -

with lead alone - that would mean getting down to 9 V a battery before the chair stops -

how does that translate now with the ADD ON - 18V cut off ? lets says i went down that low - is that low enough to damage the ADD ON Cells ? thats low enough to damage Lead i think if got down that low -

[steves1977uk]

Is there a low voltage cutoff setting on the Pilot+? There is one on the R-Net system, but never seen it in the Mobility OEM PC Programmer.

Steve

[expresso]

Is there a low voltage cutoff setting on the Pilot+? There is one on the R-Net system, but never seen it in the Mobility OEM PC Programmer.

Steve

sorry - i was referring to the Pilot + didnt realize i was in this section - i didnt look at the Rnet system - what is the cut off on the Rnet ?

its in the Pilot + 18V cut off - scroll down towards the end

[steves1977uk]

I must be blind then, there's no low voltage cutoff setting, even if I open a new Pilot+ preset. Odd!

Steve

[expresso]

Ok i finished up last night - ALL done - just need to make two cables - next week - and then start the charge testing it - get my chair ready - and what i never did was make 100% sure that my anderson i used - if it does in fact match my chair -

i did check before but wasnt 100% - i was going to do that when test fitting the pack in the chair before finishing it up - but since it turned out to be just a bit over 9 inches high - and i didnt help to do it - i wasnt worried about the fit - i know it will fit now - but slipped my mind -

so i cross my fingers that i added the correct Anderson to my pack and that it connects to my chair - if not - i have a problem - but i will check that over the weekend - but dont do any work with the girls i have on the weekend - never have and not worth the trouble explaining how to do something or how to assit etc. - i used two of my girls - and they both know what and how to help me when needed - by next week end should have the cables made -

here are the pics - nice looking unit for the future - i can now see how i could have ran the 0 and 8 wires under the pack also towards the center and then loop around to connect - wire would have to be 10 inches long - for that - i didnt see it before how this was going to work - but its not too bad on the 0 and 8 wires - thats 7 inch wire - if i made it 10 - i could have kept it all under and neat even sides etc, -

very good job Scollard - Your match is excellent -

[expresso]

pics

have doc. appt. today - and its nice out - today , all weekend - will have to put the ADD ON Chair to the test - shooting for a good 20 miles at least out of it -

[Burgerman]

Dont go too mad, your MKs are new... They need a few cycles before you fully discharge them for long term benefits.

[LROBBINS]

Even if your Andersons won't mate, you can pop the pins out of one and put them in the other color shell - the pins are all the same. Just need a small screwdriver to push down the leaf spring to get the pins out.

[expresso]

Even if your Andersons won't mate, you can pop the pins out of one and put them in the other color shell - the pins are all the same. Just need a small screwdriver to push down the leaf spring to get the pins out.

Oh ok good to know - i am worried - i though i had to make a new cable - or cut the wire and add a new one -

it was hard to install those pins - i hope i can even get them off if thats the case - but thats an option - i wont know till i get someone to take out the batteries so i can check it - i wont try to install the pack before i make sure its correct

[expresso]

Dont go too mad, your MKs are new... They need a few cycles before you fully discharge them for long term benefits.

well not exactly new - i got them New but they sat for 6 months to 8 i think - not more - i kept them charged during that time - every two weeks - and kept them on the charge for hours after the green -

i have been using the chair so short runs here and there - like today - i take a decent ride and not try to run them down much then -

a while back someone told me of an App which it recored my ride and then i send it to the computer to show a map of the ride -

would anyone know the name of that app ? i have since changed phones and forgot about it -

thanks

[Burgerman]

They may benefit from a few cycles exercise though esp if been stored for months. Regular daily use will likely sort them out though.