Jive/Salsa R2 mixture

[elryko1992]

Where you buy the rims? i liked

[Burgerman]

They are all over. Monkeybike modifiers in all countries, ebay, even amazon have them sometimes. And on that chinese ebay thing that I cant read! But cheaper from Shirley here! I got 4 for the price of a few s.

They are 3.50J x 8 rims alloy, tubeless.


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7455&start=20#p112216

[elryko1992]

ok i wait to see how you put your rims on motor.

[hank]

Tyres look well on rims.
will plastics need a trim or remove them.

[shirley_hkg]

New tyre & rim look really good .

Matchless from stock counterpart .

[Burgerman]

Tyres look well on rims.
will plastics need a trim or remove them.

They will be fine as they are. If they touch, which I doubt, just add a washer under the mounting screws.If you look here download/file.php?id=7631&mode=view
Theres quitea bit of space and these tyres are only .4 inch bigger diameter. And thats only .2 at the top (or 4mm).
Of all the chairs on the market I think only this allows you to easily tailor a rear drive chair to work properly. No stock ones do. And I looked at the Alex, the Puma, and so on. There are a few less common manufacturers that may be OK like theV4, but those are silly money. And so I didnt explore.

Matchless from stock counterpart .

And much tougher construction, and tubeless, so no worries about the dreaded punctures.

[Burgerman]

Esp with this! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/OKO-TYRE-SEA ... SwHn1ZeLjz

OKO OFF ROAD PUNCTURE FREE 1.25 Litre

The heavy-duty tyre sealant off road drivers prefer
Permanently seals multiple holes up to 10mm each
Can seal up to 20mm
Up to 80 km/hr: 50 mph

It is an essential aid to operators of vehicles that suffer harsh off-road terrain.
The OKO Off Road product can be relied upon to seal holes with a diameter of up to 10mm.
However, unlike some other companies, OKO does not over-claim on behalf of its products.
In tests, OKO Off Road has shown that it can seal holes of up to 20mm.
Even if it cannot always achieve this, it will slow down deflation to allow the driver to bring the vehicle safely to rest.
Off Road OKO is primarily designed for use off the highway.
It can be used on road for slower-moving trucks and service vehicles, and is often used in countries with bad road surfaces; it is preferred to other sealants for use inside inner tubes.
It is not for regular use on any surface in excess of 80 km/hour, or 50 mph.

[Burgerman]

Flimsy grey tube / tyre and wheel on the left.
Stronger 70mph safe construction tubeless tyre and rim on the right.

Not fitted yet. And it will sit 5mm further in when I get the metal to make an adapter.

Plenty room for the bodywork... And its more in keeping with a 180kg chair!

Then to see clearance...

And from the front...

[Burgerman]

Compared

[shirley_hkg]

Tyre looks perfect on the rim .

Did you re-polished the rims to look so shinning ?

[Burgerman]

About 2 weeks ago. Just a cloth and some metal polish.

[Burgerman]

Notice light moved inboard too.

These tyres and wheels add about 1.6 inches per side since the wheels can be mounted a little closer in. By a few mm...

If the stupid manufacturers solt this chair with the lights moved, centre footplate, seat moved bach, these tyres/rims, control pod mounted correctly, and decent programming. Then they wouyld sell them like hot caces to all those like me that want a decent rear drive chair. Because there isnt a stock one on the market. True, it ends up 27.5 wide. But then thats the same as me! So no loss.

download/file.php?id=7645&mode=view

[steves1977uk]

You need to spray the caster forks black too BM!

Steve

[Burgerman]

No. Anodise! Already ordered a set of spare forks to send off. I have a set of spare rims. Considering sending those as well as a spare set of front casters to be anodised black.

Or red!

Pick a colour!

http://anodizing.co.nz/images/Colour%20 ... G_0227.JPG

[Burgerman]

To fit those rims to a salsa, you need:

Spacer ring:
Inside diameter 41.5
Outside diameter 110.0
Thickness 16mm (used 2x 8mm instead per side)
Bolts inner ring 60 pcd x4 drilled 9MM and countersunk for taper flush cap head bolts.
Bolts outer ring 90.5 x 4 tapped M8 to fit rim.


Cover plate 2 parts.
1x ring, 74.5mm x 41.5 x 8mm thick.
1x cover, 74.5mm diameter x 1.5mm thick polished held on with 2x countersunk m4 bolts drilled through to the main adapter.

All in easy to drill aluminium from here, laser cut to size https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/easy-order

[expresso]

Looks great - lucky you - i wish you had my chair so i can get all the correct facts and numbers for rims etc, - would make it easier for me to follow -

cant complain here though - 3.50 x 8 tires are doing great - and they fit the stock rim which actually looks nice - mines are chrome black mix - i think the only rim that looks decent - i wouldnt mind those monkey rims - if i knew for sure i can get spacer adapter etc, all done for me -

i am glad i went to real tires either way - even with tubes -

[Burgerman]

You just need to measure! Its really not hard. I bet my new adapter will fit most sunrise/quickie chairs anyway! Once made.

if i knew for sure i can get spacer adapter etc, all done for me -

Find a US based laser cutter out place. Order the flat disk, after checking your measurements with a steel rule. Then its just a case of finding a guy with a pillar drill Iin a college or workshop to drill 8 holes! And tap 4 of them to M8.

Is the salsa/jive chair available in the US with a different name? Seems odd that it wouldnt be.

Salsa/Jive are the same chair. Just different options. Mostly seating is different (suposedly better but in fact worse) on the jive, and it has 3 spoke wheel rims to differentiate it. They should have ONE chair, with all the options! Because its confusing if you dont realise its the same thing. For eg the jive offers 8mph. The salsa doesent. And the jive is with some fancy different but worse seating. That is less useful if you want to move the seat back. In reality you can swap any parts on the order form. Even the mid drive salsaM centrepower footrest! So they should have stuck to the old groove name.since thats what it really is!

[expresso]

easier said than done for me -

sunrise makes 636 - 646se - same chair - or the P222se - thats it for RWD -

the best i can do right now is what i did already - using stock rims with nice fatter tires - this was as simple as you can get - bike shop did the work and my tech. installed it on my chair - moved my fender up higher and thats it - i just maintain it with Air every month or so now since its just sitting

[elryko1992]

To fit thoserims to a salsa, you need:

Spacer ring:
Inside diameter 41.5
Outside diameter 110.0
Thickness 16mm (used 2x 8mm instead per side)
Bolts inner ring 60 pcd x4 drilled 9MM and countersunk for taper flush cap head bolts.
Bolts outer ring 90.5 x 4 tapped M8 to fit rim.


Cover plate 2 parts.
1x ring, 74.5mm x 41.5 x 8mm thick.
1x cover, 74.5mm diameter x 1.5mm thick polished held on with 2x countersunk m4 bolts drilled through to the main adapter.

All in easy to drill aluminium from here, laser cut to size https://www.lasermaster.co.uk/easy-order

Can i cut here the aluminium 2mm for my invacare gearless to make circle? to put my new tyres Heidenau 110/80 X 8?

[steves1977uk]

expresso, you should look into importing a UK Sunrise chair as it'd probably be cheaper than the over-inflated US pricing madness!

Steve

[expresso]

expresso, you should look into importing a UK Sunrise chair as it'd probably be cheaper than the over-inflated US pricing madness!

Steve

why would i do that - whos paying ? IF i had to buy a chair myself out of pocket - i would consider Kilmore chairs for sure - even though it would be work to get it customized some what - seating etc, but it could be done i think - i rather use my money on converting to lithium as i get new chairs - unless of course it already has them - only company i know is bounder who offers lithium - and with the current conditions here in the states - its not looking good for me with that option - i will end up with the chair i believe - but maybe not the lithium - i have a small chance at getting them - at least i tried if thats the case -

but it would be great if we can do that - have more chair options -

[steves1977uk]

http://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powered ... heelchairs This is what we can get in the UK from just Sunrise, let alone Invacare and others. Can you not get something similar in the US like the Jive/Salsa?

US site... http://www.sunrisemedical.com/power-whe ... heel-drive Just two???

Steve

[Burgerman]

http://www.sunrisemedical.com/power-whe ... heel-drive 5 chairs if you include the mid drives that are so popular in the US.

And those are really the same as UK chairs with different names. Prices are actually cheap. But the extras are not. 900 dollars for the batteries, that are included free on the UK ones... For eg.

This is the Jive/Salsa chair... They call it qm-7-series http://www.sunrisemedical.com/power-whe ... m-7-series

Here its the Jive hybrid... http://www.sunrisemedical.co.uk/powered ... e-m-hybrid Maybe a few different options shown there, like a jay3 back, but same chair.

Both are about 10k retail with tilt, recline, lift,power legs etc. So not a big difference. But what is different id that the US page shows only FIND YOUR DEALER. Wheras the UK page has tech details, documentation, brochures, parts manuals, and a prescription forall ready to use.

[expresso]

the extras are insane - tilt - seat lift - recline - you add another 15 grand plus what the chair costs - its about $5000 each feature - tilt - recline - seat lift -

those are retail on the order forms - what the insurance actually pays is another story - the vendors get a much better deal for sure - but if you had to pay out of pocket - you still have to use a vendor to do it - so back to square one - the vendor is going to charge more than what the insurance would have paid - because there is no other way to purchase it - you have to use a vendor of some sort -

unless just buying the real cheap model online but wont be from sunrise - may be ready made kind with no options to custom etc, - for you BM - coming to the states would be going backwards in this area - since you have it better i think your way - we may end up that way here at some point also -

[Burgerman]

http://www.sunrisemedical.com/getattach ... -Form.aspx

15 grand plus what the chair costs - its about $5000 each feature - tilt - recline - seat lift -

5k for all on the form. That includes all power options.

These are the retail prices. These are what you pay. Forget about insurance, inflated prices etc. There are places that will sell you a chair at these prices. Samee way any shop works. Or car showroom.

Yes 17k aprox all in if you supply battery and charger, with all the best options ticked but you can find a supplier (many in fact) prepared to offer a supply only discount. I got 30% off my latest one. 25% off the previous one.

Your 17k less 30% makes it 11.9k. REAL price you would pay. That more than here. But its not the huge figures you think. If you lobby your gov to allow the USER to be given say 12k per 3 years, that easily covers it, if you get a new chair every 5 years for eg. And once these suppliers/dealers realise that the USER has the money they will be fighting for your business. Prices will drop.

[salixfire]

This is probably a daft question but my brain isn't working today so please bear with me. Is the 27.5 inches width overall for the chair due to the seating size you chose (plus wheels etc)? If you had chosen a smaller seat what would change altogether? Would there be less room for the batteries etc and so would fitting the lithium ones be more awkward or need a smaller pack size?

Looking good BM! How much time has it taken to sort all that out? If I finally can get my wheelchair clinic to stop being stupid, what you've ordered is likely to be similar to what I'm looking for (I'll also be asking Tom Kilmore about his chairs too).

[Burgerman]

Seat width in MY case is set to 20 inches, and I ordered wide arms. So the width across the arms is the same 27.5 inches. Same as across rear tyres. If you set it to a narrower seat, like 16, 18, and used stock arm tops then the distance across arms would be less.

The seat width settings have no affect on battery size or tyre width etc. 24.5 is standard width with the grey tyres. And a narrow seat/arms.

Time? 4 or 5 hours actual work about. And 2 weeks waiting for programmer, bolts, washers, bolt head caps, a rose joint for footplate actuator movement, tyres... Now waiting to see a rep about a j3 tall back with headrest. And waiting for lasermaster/metal cut for wheel adapters.

So basically a stock chair with many small changes that took about 5 hours over 3 weeks... Metal just arrived to make a better swing away that doesent wobble and swings wide enough from its new inboard mounting position...

[Burgerman]

One thing that does bug me is that every last pin/hinge/axle/bolt are totally squeeky clean metal with no trace of grease or lubrication. If this chair saw a single splash of water it would seize solid! In a years time the casters would be unable to be removed, the rear wheels the same, and every bolt would be rusted in place. The footplate would no longer move...

Seriously, the invacare chair was the same. How much longer would it take to grease each bolt/axle/spacer on assembly? Took me hours with a set of spanners and sockets to grease every bolt/axle/pin/spacer I can get to. The lift mechanism is the same. But an squirty oil can will sort that

[salixfire]

Quite frankly from my experience it's because they don't care. That extra labour time + grease cuts into their profits and if the chair seizes then the NHS/customer has to buy a new one. So they win all round. Longevity doesn't play well with their profits.

[salixfire]

Thank s for the reply. So seating size won't really change much? Cool. I'm looking at overall width (due to some very narrow bathroom doors), the top width wouldn't really matter unless wider than the wheels. Thank you