Braun Entervan (Dodge 2005)

[segreen]

My Dodge Entervan has just developed a problem. Side door where the ramp deploys has stopped working. Ok to open/close manually, ramp and kneel deploy ok. Door will not open and close on electrics. Any ideas what is wrong?

[Burgerman]

The ramp on mine did that when the fuse feeding the ramp motor failed.

Braun are similar/same so expect a 20 amp fuse somewhere near the ramp motor. I now keep spares in the van...

Hence http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/fuse.htm ........... I have a pack of every charger, powerchair, main l;ead, and van fuse in my van at all times! So far its helped me rescue a fellow wheelchairist, as well as my ramp twice. It blows the fuse if the ramp tries to power down to the ground and there is an obstacle in the way. Say 8 inches or higher. Like a big curb and lowered at the same time.

Can also be caused by a computer crash. Reset (remove power) and test.

[segreen]

Thanks, I'll check it out tomorrow.

[segreen]

Just had my door checked and its not a fuse problem. When I disconnected the computer and reconnected it, the door worked fine, it kneeled and the ramp deployed.

Then when I pressed the key fob, ramp folded up, van sat up and door didn't close. Any ideas anyone?

[Lord Chatterley]

Just had my door checked and its not a fuse problem. When I disconnected the computer and reconnected it, the door worked fine, it kneeled and the ramp deployed.

Then when I pressed the key fob, ramp folded up, van sat up and door didn't close. Any ideas anyone?

I had a similar problem with my Braun.Try disconnecting the power then reconnecting. Also check your battery levels individually - one of mine was flat. A new battery cured it.

[segreen]

I'll try that tomorrow and let you know.

[segreen]

Just had a thought, I still have the problem with the engine running so will that have a bearing on it regarding the battery?

[Burgerman]

Do yourelf a favour. Fit a D34 PC1500 Odyssey 68 Ah Deep Cycle and starting battery. And keep it topped up via an external maintainance charger, or 5 watt solar panel charger.

All those electrics added to the concersion computers electrics kill batteries. And low battery levels cause the computers to error... That causes all sorts of issues.

Added... My tie down wasnt fully releasing at one point, causing a bigger battery drain as the magnet stayed energised. That caused the computer in the boot to crash and door/ramp/lowering to get all confused for a while until I worked out why. I now leave a 5 watt solar charger panel on the front seat facing the sun if unused for a few days.

Stick a volt meter across your vans battery:
a) while running - will read 14.4v (well its supposed too!)
b) when parked up (after 10 mins when everything SHOULD have gone to sleep). Should now read about 12.6 or greater and be recovering slowly to 12.7 ish....
c) next day... Should read 12.5 or greater.
d) After a week... That will scare you... And make you realise you need deep cycle batteries on your van too. Read this page (relates to vans too)
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/Powerch ... ry-SOC.htm

[Burgerman]

And remember that a van battery is NOT a deep cycle battery. So in deep cycle use you will get tens of cycles rather than many hundreds,

Starter only batteries are designed to make hundreds of amps for a few seconds. That starts your car. Then they are rapidly topped back up. That winter start takes about 5 percent of the battery capacity only.

A deep cycle battery cant usually make enough amps quickly to start an engine.

A true dual purpose battery, yellow top optima, or Odyssey etc can both start a truck AND be deep cycled... And be fast charged safely, and has the power to drive a powerchair up a steep ramp...

I use Odyssey batteries for chair and van for this reaason. Optimas group 34 is the same but has 20 percent less capacity. Both are true dual purpose batts.

So if you need a replacement only fit odyssey! And no I dont sell them...

[segreen]

Just tried fitting a new battery, and no joy. Any more suggestions?

[phatboyroy]

Hi segreen


The smilie gives you a clue as to what may be wrong. I have a similar problem with similar symptoms on my 2004 Grand Voyager, which after much ado is hopefully being resolved as I speak.
I traced mine (6-7 weeks ago now) to the wiring loom that sits in the bottom of the door sill. Have a look when the door is open, and you’ll see a black plastic chain like contraption with 9 (+1) wires running through it. The 9 are original, (or part of Modifications) and maybe/maybe not another one, (could be Orange/Yellow) that senses the ramp. 7 (or 8) wires go up into the door near to the motor-drive and 2 pale green/white go to a magnetic sensor at the rear of the sill.
With usage, i.e. constant flexing as the door opens/closes, metal fatigue sets in and the wire breaks down and or the insulation wears and exposes the wire. It’s not just converted voyagers that this is prevalent on. It happens to all voyagers with electronic doors. A new loom… is £75-£90, and if you’ve had a lowered floor may not fit, but you may not need to buy a new loom… then again you may need the bits off the new loom to repair the old one, (e.g. black chain link). It gets better. The wiring diagrams give a set of colour codes for the wires, which bear no resemblance to the new loom; which in turn bears no resemblance to the wires in-situ; which in turn bears no resemblance to the wiring diagram.
If it transpires to be duff wires within the loom, you’ll need to take the ramp off, remove the inside of the door panel, and basically make up a new loom to fit. It’s a remake of the loom salvaging bits off the old loom. So you’ll need a good auto electrician, (mine is in the 3rd garage) whereas normal garages see a modification and freak out. They would be fine with just swapping the looms, but anything deeper and they go running scared. This was even C*** M***rs in Cardiff who are supposed to be ‘vehicle converters’. Your car may also throw up code 13 on the diagnostic box.
My black plastic chain is knackered so I did need a new loom, convincingly, this new guy, (by all accounts an old fashioned auto electrician) does not appear to be fazed by having to pull the new wire through the loom and put another connector at the front end of the loom up inside the ‘B’ pillar. My fingers are crossed, otherwise it’s a 6 hour round trip PLUS at least 3hrs at £95 an hour at Steering Developments in Hemel Hempstead. They also seem to know the score re this problem, and if I lived nearer, I’d give them a go. Ok, kiss goodbye to the best part of £400… but what’s the alternative. If you live near Bridgend in S Wales, let me see how this guy works out and I’ll pass you his name/No.
Food for thought eh??

[segreen]

Sounds good to me! Was thinking of visiting my second auto electrican tomorrow, as I'm getting nowhere fast, either fixing my car or building my chair. Your quite right any garage that see's these car's just freak out! Keep in touch. Thanks

[phatboyroy]

hi segreen
yet again the smilie says all... welll tentatively... I phoned him today, and “Yes, everything is working fine”. He’s dropping it off tomorrow, (Thurs 6th may) I don’t know how much and don’t know the state of wagon, but fairly confident. Where are you based, roughly speaking? Is Bridgend, S Wales too far if your man doesn’t work out? I’ll post a costings anyway.
Be well
Roy.

[segreen]

I'm in Bolton, the Northwest and nowhere is too far if I can get my dam van fixed properly. I've had a new harness like you described fitted a few years ago plus a new cumputer in the boot. Done under warranty. Thanks for the help, Steve

[phatboyroy]

hi segreen

I phoned my tame auto-electrician man and asked how much I owe him, he was muttering to himself, "...3 hours plus a bit of materials ..." he wants £147.50p plus vat, I was pleasantly surprised. Like you, I would have paid more, (don't tell him that though). And of course blue badge holders don't pay vat on servicing/repairs, (you know about that I take it?? - under group 14 of the zero rate schedule to the VAT act 1983. HMCE Notice 701/59 March 2002 refers). Apparently he didn't have to take the ramp off either. Fair enough.
As I say I haven’t seen the job yet, so final report to come. He said it was the main power lead that had failed, and that you couldn’t see the break, but as I intimated previously, apparently it had broken down inside the insulation. If you can’t get it fixed locally, Bolton is a 7.5 to 8 hour round trip, plus 3 hours workshop time; though he should be quicker now he’s done it once. I’ll post a final report later today/tomorrow.
Roy

[segreen]

Thanks for your input. I've been thinking about this damn door and I don't know whether you noted that when I disconnect my battery and or computer to reset everything it starts to work. Door opens, ramp deploys and van kneels. Press again and van sits up, ramp closes but door stays open.

Does this suggest broken wire?

[Burgerman]

No. Mine (not braun but rollx) did that when new once or twice. Systems are almost identical. It was a switch or sensor that wasnt telling the computer that the door was in the "open" condition. If I manually opened the door wider by half an inch then it would shut.

The non ramp side will open the door fully again when you try to close it with the key if its not fully open. The ramp side is different. The conversion computer disallows that as the ramp may be in the way so if the door isnt fully open the computer wont let anything move. It gets scared!

So it could be that the door isnt fully open, (or the sensor thinks it isnt)...

Anyway I didnt fix it and it no longer does it. Also check battery voltage after operating door etc. Computer in boot crashes and behaves weird when voltage low. Test everything again while engine is running (14.4v) to test.

Any error messages on the computer screen when it wont close?

[phatboyroy]

hi segreen, the plot doth thicken. [quote="segreen"]...I don't know whether you noted that when I disconnect my battery and or computer to reset everything it starts to work...

When did you do that? Time wise and how many door cycles ago?

And, no I didn't note that bit. It could be a wire breaking down and it could be as Burgerman points out. However, I would have thought that if the door sensor is not sensing open, the ramp won't lower. So for the ramp to lower that 'door open' sensor must have registered. So I would assume that the door has cycled and is then ready to go to 'close mode' waiting for your finger input.

Mine failed thus.
I pressed the button, door opened part way and stopped. My wife opened door manually, I pressed again, and the ramp deployed. I pressed to close, the ramp raised, the door closed. Next time I pressed nothing happened. Took it to the garage, they partially opened door, pressed the button, door opened and ramp deployed. Pressed the button again, ramp retracted and door partially closed. They manually closed the door. Since then pressing buttons did no operate the door. You had to manually open the door to hear a click, (micro-switch making - and door looking in open position) before the ramp would function. Press again ramp would raise, but door would not motor.

So going on that indicated to me that as the bend in the loom got to a point the wire inside separated and failed, but then at another point the strands made contact and worked.

I take you have disconnected/reset batt and computer again? And I’m assuming that the door works once then fails again??
Have you had a Chrysler garage put their box of tricks to see if it indeed does throw up a fault code?


regards

roy

[segreen]

I've not had anyone else check the car after paying out good money to a recommended auto electrican and not solving anything.

[Burgerman]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/tools.htm

Note orange thing. Dare I say eBay... 9.99 delivered. There are loads of these code readers. It will show door faults, sensor, gearbox, engine steering, windows, air con, lights, etc...

I have one in the dashboard... Fits under the dash on every modern car. And your van. Erases faults codes too. I had an air bag fault code. Had no idea what the fault was without this.

[phatboyroy]

The door seems to be working well and all looks tickety-boo. Naturally I haven’t been able to go too deep, but what I see looks good.
I do still keep looking over my shoulder though for the spectre to reappear. Strange that isn’t it? Psychology of man.
Anyway if it does go wrong, at least I know someone who can fix it.

Here’s the guy’s contact details, tell him I sent you.

Andrew or Richard
Moto-Lec Auto Electrical
Unit 3,South Cornelly Trading Estate,
South Cornelly,
Bridgend,
Mid Glamorgan,
CF33 4RE
01656 744117

also, there's a loom on ebay at the moment starting at a fiver, from spire automotives. i bought onne as a spare yesterday, cost me £15.50 inc a charity donation. i may use it but it's worth it to have just in case. compare that to £90 from Chrysler.

as an aside, thanks burgerman for the tip to buy a scanner, i did, (£20 - ebay), and feel that if i get an eng warning light glitch and go into a 'false' limp mode, at least i can cancel it and get home. that's gotta be worth £20 in anybody's language.

[segreen]

Finally got my car back on the road! After buying a new 'Smart Box' (the bit that controls the door, kneel and ramp) from my dealer in America and getting it shipped over here, only to find they'd shipped me the wrong one and costing $800, I find it wasn't the 'Smart Box' at all. My third auto electrican found that the spindal on the ramp wasn't connecting with the switch to tell the door to close and open. Somehow it had worked its way loose and as a result couldn't hit the door switch so the door didn't know the ramp was up. It took the guy 50 minutes to strip the ramp motor and re-build, fixing everything and charge me £20 for his time. I'm so happy, I've got my indendance back!

Makes me wonder what the other two auto electrians were doing. Anyone need a good auto electrican near Bolton - just ask me.

[phatboyroy]

hi segreen

glad to hear you've got the door working. something as simple as a micro-switch not making. this used to happen on my previous grand voyager when parked on a left incline. ie the ramp coming away from the switch. we sometimes needed to hold the ramp back to 'make the switch' so that the door could close. then tighten it up when we get home. if you see my may 6th post, this is one of the things i checked on my fault diagnosis trail.
i'll bet you're frustrated at all the S#!t that's gone on while at the same time relieved it's all fixed.

be well.

roy