PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

https://www.amainhobbies.com/racers-edg ... 55/p630398

Will only give you 120Watts. No idea if its any good or will charge properly etc. Its a bit like a BMS. No idea whats going on.

[Gnomatic]

I know it's not for you LOL!

Thanks for the link.

[Gnomatic]

One thing I do plan on doing, is getting a 2nd PL8 wired up in my van that lives in the glovebox. If I'm on a road trip, great opportunity to charge. BM you've been preaching about doing this since before I started reading here. Makes too much sense.

[expresso]

about the external BMS - i recall Shirley mentioned that one time - - only to use if going away - not to carry all the other stuff - make the BMS wires to a SubD connector to plug in the chair and the other end of the wires to the dumb charger XLR connector -

yes its slower - yes its not perfect - but will do for short time and simple plug and play - - using a BMS from Shirley - which just charges and balances -

removing all the rest of the functions - like the one he got for me - sounds like a decent idea -

[shirley_hkg]

Another PL8 now , with 60" balance leads .

[Burgerman]

Shirley has a factory going ON over there in HK.

[steves1977uk]

Shirley's a PL8 convert now!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Best tool for the job right now. But in the hobby world these things have a habit of changing. Wait while he figures out how to do fast discharges with it...

[ex-Gooserider]

I don't have brand / model info at hand, but when I was doing the electric skateboard project for my friend Erik, he purchased a small hobby charger and power supply from Hobby King.... The 24VDC power supply was about the size of our much unloved 'mobility brick' chargers, and I think was 15 or 20A, and the charger was maybe 3/4" thick and about the same length and width... I used a few zip-ties to fasten the PSU and charger together and the result was comparable in size to a mobility brick... It was moderately annoying to program the charger the first time, but it had presets that would let you be pretty close to the desired 'one button start' once it was set up....

No idea how well it works compared to a PL8, but seems like it would be an OK setup for use as a travel charger...

ex-Gooserider

If you are happy with a low power charger, like the 8A type you are used to, then an 8S all in one plug into the wall hobby charger could be used.

Have a link to any?

I an 8A charger is far less than ideal. But it could still return 64Ah to the pack in 8hrs. My pack is 105Ah. So even a puny 8A charger could return 60% of my pack's capacity on an 8hr overnight.. I wouldn't mind having something like that in the toolkit.

[Gnomatic]

Always makes me laugh when you hear that we will be able to charge a new just invented lithium battery in 10 mins. You can if its a phone. But they claim a car can be charged in 10 mins. That would need your own power station.

10min? That's like, forever. This company claims EV charging will only take 5 minutes with their new fangled battery for complete charge and 300mi range. Because everyone will be living near hydroelectric damns in the future I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkMMxmPfWVA

[Burgerman]

OK heres the maths.
An example...

the 2017 Model S 100D Tesla, which is equipped with a 100 kWh battery pack would need a 100kw power supply. TO CHARGE IN 1 HOUR. Plus 10% losses in charging. And another 10% in the charger. So lets call it 120kw required. No house has this. Most factories dont.

So we would need 10x this to charge in 6 mins. Thats 120kw x 10 (or 120,000 watts, x10) = 1,200,000 watts to charge it in 6 minutes.

So as I said, you will need a personal 1.2 MILLION watt power supply. And a typical electricity pylon cant do that. Dont think we are going to be doing this anytime soon.

[Gnomatic]

So as I said, you will need a personal 1.2 MILLION watt power supply.

And what gauge wire for the charging cable???

[shirley_hkg]

Feel that slow charging has more stable voltage than that of fast recharging during use .

I recharged less than once a week , so twentiesh amp overnight is adequate . Fast recharging is because of what you have forgotten .

[Burgerman]

Feel that slow charging has more stable voltage than that of fast recharging during use

Depends on C rate, or resistance. And the lower the C rate, the higher the resistance the lower you must choose the termination point to allow a full recharge.

I use 130C rated LiPo batteries in my heli. (I use 8C recharge 40A as its the best the wall/charger can do). Its a mobile phone sized 5Ah (5000mAh) battery and can be EASILY be charged 8x its 5A. I recharge that at 40A regularly. Its ready to fly again, and 100% full after approx 7 minutes. Doesn't get warm.

I charge two at once on my bench with 2 chargers, thats 2.9kw input to the battery!
I am using two typical hobby batteries that are like this:
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-nan ... -pack.html

10min? That's like, forever. This company claims EV charging will only take 5 minutes with their new fangled battery for complete charge and 300mi range. Because everyone will be living near hydroelectric damns in the future I guess?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkMMxmPfWVA

And the actual recharge rate the above hobby battery CAN be charged at is DOUBLE my 40A! A huge 15C! or 75A each. Or about 5kw input...
So you can already recharge cells in FOUR mins!!! Read the specs. But already the wall, the AC power or charger capability is simply not capable. And thats just for a couple of tiny hobby batteries that are in common use for years. The claims made for the "new" technology are not new. Or useful.

[Lilenglishcuppa]

I would be very interested too ... (in the nf-22)

[steves1977uk]

Pride should've made the Q6 Edge built around GRP24 batteries. You might be able to squeeze in 2x12v 75Ah Lithium packs (4S 5P) using 15Ah cells. It depends how much room is available in the boxes to accommodate the extra wires and cells. I imagine it would be a very tight fit.

Steve

[Burgerman]

Pride should've made the Q6 Edge built around GRP24 batteries. You might be able to squeeze in 2x12v 75Ah Lithium packs (4S 5P) using 15Ah cells. It depends how much room is available in the boxes to accommodate the extra wires and cells. I imagine it would be a very tight fit.

Steve

The 600, or 6 edge chairs are a narrow base. They used cheap 2 poles, lower top speed to try make the small batteries work. And to keep the price of parts down to make a better profit and fit some insurance category.
The grp 24 sized one is the 6000 chairs. Those are 4 pole, faster options too. But wider. A far better choice if you are normal sized or want to go places. Bigger,wider more stable. Both are my last choice...

[steves1977uk]

Pride would be my last choice too BM, there chairs seem to break down easily.

Steve

[shirley_hkg]

https://electrek.co/2017/06/10/richard- ... -supercar/


Richard Hammond crashed a £700K Concept One , which bursts into flame in 6 seconds .

Concept One ~ uses LiFePO4.~ , ~ with 80KWh on board .

[Burgerman]

Electricity is energy. Energy is dangerous. Power stations explode and lead batteries too! Even my jump leads melted and burst into flames after I accidentally shorted them years back!

If you short enough lfp cells out, you get enough heat to boil the oily electrolyte out. And like engine oil or cooking oil it expands, leaks, and burns if you get it hot enough and give it some source of ignition.

Unlike lithium ion, it takes a long time, so easy to get out. Teslas are lithium ion and go like an instant fireball/firework!

[Gnomatic]

Is there some sort of shrink wrap that can be used on a large pack?

[Burgerman]

Duct tape!

[Gnomatic]

Duct tape!

I guess that would work!

[ex-Gooserider]

Is there some sort of shrink wrap that can be used on a large pack?

There is the 'stretch wrap' like industrial grade plastic food wrap that is used to fasten stuff down on pallets and the like, but it isn't that strong or durable... I have also seen rolls of 'shrink tape' that were like electrical tape that shrank after heating like the tube does.

I found that the 'self fusing' type electrical tape is better in that sort of application, as it doesn't peel apart as easily...

I haven't really looked, but I see no real reason why they couldn't make sheets of the same sort of plastic that they make shrink tube out of... Also they make regular shrink in very large sizes, so it should be available if you are willing to look for it and probably pay a good bit....

ex-Gooserider

[shirley_hkg]

Is there some sort of shrink wrap that can be used on a large pack?

You are not listening , again !

[Gnomatic]

You are not listening , again !

Do you have a link, again?

[steves1977uk]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pv ... l&_sacat=0

If I just typed in pvc, it brings up pvc catsuits

Steve

[Burgerman]

I se that heat shrink envelope stuff on helicopter rotor blades, lithium polymer hobby packs etc. It is available in larger sizes too if you can find a supplier. In small quantities. Or just stuff the pack into a catsuit!

Heres some http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pv ... e&_sacat=0

18 inches wide? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Flat-Width-4 ... 1335272012

[Gnomatic]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pvc&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR3.TRC0.A0.H0.Xpvc+roll.TRS0&_nkw=pvc+roll&_sacat=0

If I just typed in pvc, it brings up pvc catsuits

Steve

I like the cat suit idea!

Those large pvc rolls, the ones I looked at in your search result(thanks you), it didn't say about them being shrinkable. Maybe they are? I've never used this type of stuff before.

[Gnomatic]

I se that heat shrink envelope stuff on helicopter rotor blades, lithium polymer hobby packs etc. It is available in larger sizes too if you can find a supplier. In small quantities. Or just stuff the pack into a catsuit!

Heres some http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=pv ... e&_sacat=0

18 inches wide? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1M-Flat-Width-4 ... 1335272012

Thanks.

I can find the ones for smaller cells like 18650's and such. The second one is close to what I've been searching for. That's the first of that material in that large of sizes I've seen. I've only found it for smaller stuff. I've seen Headway packs on places like endless sphere taken out of ebikes(usually to remove faulty BMS) with that kind of shrink wrap. I've just had no luck searching for such large size wrap myself. The one you linked is getting close in size in what I'd need to shrink wrap my pack.

I hadn't originally planned on doing that, but I figure if I can a pvc shrink wrap large enough, why not?