PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[expresso]

oh yes - i though they were 12V - but i go confused - didnt realize they are in front of a Mirror - haha - i though he made 4 Packs - and i wasnt even drinking

[shirley_hkg]

Lovely , itsn't it ?

The fourth pack for INVACARE chair.

£450 for real 135Ah . Who wants a £660 MK gel ?

[expresso]

Cant beat the cost thats for sure -- you did get lucky finding those Cells - - its a risk that paid off for you -

would you have pictures of the Pack top and bottom views ?

will you still connect a ADD on with this pack - 45ah ADD ON - making it 180ah - maybe we can meet half way -

[shirley_hkg]

Battery box arrived !

[snaker]

I am going to make spare DSub charging cables. This time I want to experiment balance wires bigger than the stock size (22 awg). Does 18 awg fit the solder cups in DB13w3?

[Burgerman]

Yep.

[ex-Gooserider]

Battery box arrived !

You need to turn your chair around, all your stickers are backwards....

ex-Gooserider

[shirley_hkg]

Cant beat the cost thats for sure -- you did get lucky finding those Cells - - its a risk that paid off for you -

would you have pictures of the Pack top and bottom views ?

will you still connect a ADD on with this pack - 45ah ADD ON - making it 180ah - maybe we can meet half way -

This pair are meant for a friend's INVACARE ARROW .

The 112 cells I purchased earlier have been in the bathroom , only 24 of them are used . 72 left for spare .
( See page 82 .)

My current pack is 216Ah with 72P8S of SONY 26650cells @3000mAH . Very stable & conform .

See I put 148Ah back to it, when cells were discharged to 3.235V ( Page 152 )


I have 2 add-ons :
53Ah @SAMSUNG 2600mAH cells , ( See page 21 & 36 )
45Ah @15Ah 40152 cells . ( See page 92 , 97 , 105 .)

They can be ALL mounted on my chair, though I haven't tried yet .

They will be a total of 314ah then .
@26.2V average , it's 8.23 KWH .

[expresso]

whow - alot of packs you got - using those small cells - that would drive me nuts and take for ever - you have the patience and know how for that -

do you still use Lead with the ADD ON ? or lithium inside and the ADD ON also ?

how do you like the 40152 cells 45ah pack compared to the other cells ? do you notice any difference for better or worse ?

[shirley_hkg]

whow -

how do you like the 40152 cells 45ah pack compared to the other cells ? do you notice any difference for better or worse ?

It's as good as it gets .

I only return to lead when travel aboard , where you won't fight with the airline operators .

[Burgerman]

What are we banning? Lead?

[steves1977uk]

Lead should've been banned a decade ago!

Steve

[Burgerman]

Bought a lead brick - pc65 odyssey - in summer. For my van, to replace the 2007 one. Retired after 10 years. New one has 50w roof solar / charge controller should last longer. And always be full.

[Gnomatic]

Strange. I plugged in my chair last night to charge. I knew it wasn't empty but I wanted to be topped up for today. So I unplug my chair this morning thinking the chair had finished charging several hrs ago. It hadn't. The charger was still in the CV stage. Not expecting this, I unplugged the charge cable and the PL8 protested. Realizing it was still charging at that point, I checked the PC graph and saw this:

What the heck? Usually CV lasts ~2hrs. Here it had been going 6hrs and still wasn't finished!

[expresso]

that is strange - are you using the same preset i am using ? charging up to 3.6v and then let it balance ? this is another reason why i like to watch it and finish it before bed -

if you charge at 20A - you should be done in 4 hours times on a close to empty pack - the balance part dosnt take long - maybe 20 mins for me or 30 mins at most i think - i never really paid attention - since it never acted funny out of the norm before - lets see what BM suggests - maybe easy fix with the preset used

[Gnomatic]

My pack 90Ah, and the preset I'm currently using charges to the 500thC at 14A with CV set to 3.55v.

[expresso]

this is the preset i always used - i have a few of the same with different charge speeds - for the 105ah pack - you can adjust the term. point if needed - based on charge results -

i think that may be your problem - i recall BM saying if start to balance too early - will take a long time - but you didnt have this problem before ? could be this time around there were out of balance more -

either way - you can try this one and see - i would watch it this time -

[expresso]

also - maybe the cable - is it too long ? could be a combonation of things - cable - preset - cells out of balance - etc , use shortest cable with my preset - which is BM's preset - he made them all for me - i havnt had to touch them at all -

just charge speeds i adjust -

[Gnomatic]

i think that may be your problem - i recall BM saying if start to balance too early - will take a long time - but you didnt have this problem before ? could be this time around there were out of balance more -

Perhaps my Dsubs haven't been making good contact on previous charges and messing up the balancing? And on the charge graph posted above, perhaps the Dsubs finally got connected well and good for the first time in several charge cycles, and my pack was finally being properly balanced last night.

The reason I throw this out there as a possibility, is that on multiple previous charges, the graphs had not looked so hot - the lines weren't all together, kind of messy. Not so on the graph above with super long CV stage, all the lines suddenly together as one again.

The preset I'm using is one BM made for my pack.

[expresso]

OK - that can all have an effect - you may want to try making another cable - or use the one thats giving you the best results - in that case - if that is whats happeneing - then yeah it could have been out of balance - makes sesnse about the cable -

i will make a few extra myself this winter to have as spares - its good that you found this out - now you can keep an eye out on the cable - it should show like the above graph all the time - i know with my packs - early on the charge after about 10 mins or so - theres one line that goes off for a short time and loops back on and thats it - continues charging all together - happens on both my packs - and it depends how discharged they get also - i actually notice its dosnt happen as much or less when discharged deeper - it varies - i always look out for that - its early on the charge - its really minor but i still notice it - by the end of the charge - the graph is perfect line - and you cant even see that little bit from the start of the charge -

since i know my packs now how they charge and discharge - i use that as my guide - baseline - if i ever see it differently - then i would look into it - once you get it charging right each time with the graphs showing it - then you can get used your pack to notice when its good or when something can be off -

[Gnomatic]

Here's the graph from the preceding charge cycle to the one above. As you can see kind of sloppy. Recent charge cycles had a frayed graph look like this. Until the one last night with all lines together and super long CV.

[expresso]

this is my last charge graphs - 40 miles done - but over time - over a week - the chair was used here and there and sat for a while - in between etc, -

i charge two packs - 105ah with one charger and the 30ah ADD ON - with another charger - same time - 12A for 30ah pack and 20A for the 105ah pack -

when used steady in the summer - the graphs are tighter also - the important thing i feel is when i get home and check the level of discharge with the PL 8 - when i first start the charge - the Line is ONE - all even - i like to see that all the time

deeper the discharge - that one line would start to turn to 8 lines - at some point they will all do that -

[expresso]

Here's the graph from the preceding charge cycle to the one above. As you can see kind of sloppy. Recent charge cycles had a frayed graph look like this. Until the one last night with all lines together and super long CV.

11082017 Volts.JPG

big difference - use the same cable you used last night and make sure its connected good - see if that was the issue - may very well be -

[expresso]

Strange. I plugged in my chair last night to charge. I knew it wasn't empty but I wanted to be topped up for today. So I unplug my chair this morning thinking the chair had finished charging several hrs ago. It hadn't. The charger was still in the CV stage. Not expecting this, I unplugged the charge cable and the PL8 protested. Realizing it was still charging at that point, I checked the PC graph and saw this:

111217 Volts.JPG

What the heck? Usually CV lasts ~2hrs. Here it had been going 6hrs and still wasn't finished!

this graph looks good - just needed to be balanced like you said - i think your right about the cable connection or cable itself -

[Gnomatic]

I've been using the same charge cable, but I do have a spare. I might give that a go if it continues acting up.

But I'm inclined to think its just a matter of the Dsubs not getting good contact. Sometimes when I go to start a charge, the PL8 throws a fit. When that happens I just give the Dsubs an extra shove and it charges fine after that. That's what makes me suspect the connectors.

[Burgerman]

Make sure theres a 4 hour CV limit set. Unless balancing a fresh or old stored pck.
Make sure that you have a 4mV balance deadband set.
Make sure that you have a balance start 3.500V set.

Buy a tin of switch cleaner, do chair end, cable both ends, charger.
If it still miss behaves check all bolts tight.

[Gnomatic]

Make sure theres a 4 hour CV limit set. Unless balancing a fresh or old stored pck.
Make sure that you have a 4mV balance deadband set.
Make sure that you have a balance start 3.500V set.

Buy a tin of switch cleaner, do chair end, cable both ends, charger.
If it still miss behaves check all bolts tight.

I take it the CV limit is the CV Timeout setting in the Termination tab? I set that to 4hrs. Balance Start and Deadband already set as above already.

I will pick up some switch cleaner and go from there

[Gnomatic]

Which one of these?

https://smile.amazon.com/WD-40-Speciali ... ch+cleaner

https://smile.amazon.com/CRC-5103-Quick ... dpSrc=srch

https://smile.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-Deo ... dpSrc=srch

[Burgerman]

I use, https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxI ... pldnSite=1

[snaker]

My maddest range: 83km/89.5 returned Ah.

In fact I was nearly unconscious in the last 4km A kind guy along the road gave me a 'red bull', it saved me. I should better prepare for long ranges, e.g some

You see the avg speed is 14.29kph. Its max speed must be greater than 15kph because I had to run at very low speed in some dangerous roads. That great speed was achieved just by increase motor voltage from stock 21.5V to max 25V.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1zVOpR ... sp=sharing