PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

Its opto isolated? And the connection is powered by the USB. So cant be related?

[robert97]

where does the usb/FUIM3 get its power? imagine noise/spikes on those power lines.

this is the best explaination i have.

[Burgerman]

The PC. USB 5V.

You can substitute a Bluetooth module, and go cable free. But it needs a 5v supply. Theres no power provided by the PL8. Only opto isolated signal.

[robert97]

are the three skinny FUIM3 wires coming from thePL8 isolated?
a scope might show problems.

Only the signal and ground are connected in the PL8 as far as I know. And thats opto isolated via a chip. I have been looking at finding a 5v source inside the PL8 and connecting it so I can use a blutooth module as I did on the old hyperions.

[robert97]

again, the symptoms:
PS: about 24v
battery pack, about 24v (7S life)

once "Charge Only" is selected, the CCS software often loses the connection
to PL8. charging continues.
the connection drop is often quick, but sometimes not immediate.
maybe if the lithium pack is low voltage, the PL8 doesn't
buck/boost for a while.

[steves1977uk]

In the 3 years+ I've been using the PL8 with the USB FUIM3, it has never lost the connection to the PC. How long is your USB cable? Mine is about 1 meter long.

Steve

[Burgerman]

I have one that goes to my kitchen! So length cant be anything to do with it. I have had a cable that didnt work reliably though.

[robert97]

FUIM3-US from RevoLectric is about a meter long.
i'll bet you don't have 7S headway LiFe and 24v PS.

with my 30v PS, no problems.

[expresso]

i have 2 24v PSU - off ebay - both work fine - never had issues with either PSU or USB cable - i also have a 12V PSU - from ebay also and that works fine

i have 3 Pl 8s now - and all work fine - ONE Pl 8 was defective and it was exchanged - since then it worked fine - its all running of a Win 10 laptop and no issues at all

its frustrating when little things like that dont work - i say use a Win 10 PC and take it from there - - unless its possible the usb cable was connected wrong way on the PL 8 end ? if so - it wouldnt work at all then -

i have a 6 foot usb cable one of them - all work fine

[Burgerman]

I might add that in a few years of use, charging many different hobby packs, inc 5S, 6S, 7S, lipos, and 4 and 8s LiFe po4 packs never an issue. Also my power supplies are adjustable from 0 to 30V. And I randomly turn the voltage up to anything from 12 to 30 as long as I am only charging at a relatively low rate. Never had this 24V issue with lead, lithium or anything else.

You possibly have a bad supply. It might be noisy or drop randomly at high frequency to a low voltage or something.

[shirley_hkg]

This is my first self-assembly pack wih A123 pouch , back in 2011 .

This time I discharged it real low (3.05V) , to see how much are left after 6 years of use .





Below shows cell voltages of the last 1Ah .

Cell 3 has been with a swelling cell , so I added an extra 30AH to salvage it .

[shirley_hkg]

AND RECHARGED

There is the fuse betwen cells 3 & 4 .

[Burgerman]

200Ah? But a few bad connections somewhere? On the yellow one?

[expresso]

thats not bad for 6 years considering it was using a BMS -

[robert97]

yes, PS24V50A-BL-US $229.95 *might* be bad, but

after going through two PL8s, two FUIM3s,
and two laptops, i tried charging from a 12v lead battery.
the disconnection problem ended. so revoletrix sent a new
PS24V50A-BL-US . the disconnection problem returned.
i finally bought a 30v PS and all is good.

my reason for posting is to possibly save others from this grief.
so, if during charge your pack voltage rises from 23.5v to 24.8v
and your supply is about 24-26v and your PC CCS disconnects,
try a different voltage supply.

[expresso]

Which PSU did you buy - can you post a link - always good to know what works if ever needed

all of my PSU came from Ebay - and all work - they are all used server units - less than half the cost of new ones and so far i never had any issues - but in the event i get issues - i like to know what other PSU units everyone is using that work for them -

thanks

[Burgerman]

It pays to have an adjustable super stable bench supply. You choose any volts. And it doesent do this kind of thing even if you dont. But it shouldnt anyway.

[expresso]

It pays to have an adjustable super stable bench supply. You choose any volts. And it doesent do this kind of thing even if you dont. But it shouldnt anyway.

i guess if your having issues - - i only paid $100 for mines and so far so good - the second i got i paid $125 - works fine - i worry if i cant find them again if i need in the future - i dont think those sold by Revo - are worth it - they seem to have issues - others have same issues

[steves1977uk]

I don't have any issues using a 24v PSU with the PL8, I do have a bench 0-30v adjustable PSU too like BM has should any problems occur. Like BM says, it shouldn't matter how many cells in series are being charged, the CCS software shouldn't lose the connection to the PL8 unless there's an issue somewhere.

Steve

[ex-Gooserider]

For what it's worth, I thought the USB cable I had been using was the one that came with the Revolectrix FUM board, but I'm not certain - I have so many different USB cables in my space it's hard to keep track sometimes...

At any rate, the one I had was only 3-4' long, but the cable OD was pretty thin (hard to tell what is under the jacket w/o surgery....) It should only be carrying low currents, but even so this cable seemed thin, so a bad cable was possible... It also seemed like an easy thing to check, so I dug through my box of USB cables and found one with the right ends and which was a larger OD on the jacket, and also had 'shielding beads' on each end next to the connector....

I haven't tried it on the XP box, but on the Win-7 box, it seems to have solved the problem, in that the timer on the software never stops. It still takes a few seconds for the graph to start displaying data, but when it does, it seems to do so from the beginning...

I've been charging cells, and it seems like I'm getting a good bit of variation in the time to charge, and mAh returned... I had one cell that never did stop by reaching 20mA, instead it hit the safety time out at 4 hours.

I had another one that did an over-voltage safety stop - the graph seemed to be doing fine until the last few seconds when it went from 3.6 to over 4V
in just a few seconds... Otherwise it was about average for mAh returned, charge time, and cell resistance.... Strange...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

I had another one that did an over-voltage safety stop - the graph seemed to be doing fine until the last few seconds when it went from 3.6 to over 4V

I suspected a cable. USB cables are crap!

That fault above is always a bad connection. As for a cell that doesent fall to a low current, it can happen and the same cell will behave normally next time. Not sure why.

[expresso]

If your charging the cells a few at a time - maybe you can first get a working Cable - working system computer and charger PSU - then i would charge each cell one at a time - good connection - yes it takes longer - but it may be more accurate - in the end when you build it - if the mAh returned are not correct for some other reason - connection etc, - then the built would end up not as tight -

i recall you built some unit to charge a few cells at a time to save time ?

[ex-Gooserider]

The over-volt cell was with the good? USB cable - at least it hasn't given any other problems...

I built a jig months back when doing the initial charge, which allowed me to do 4 cells at a time. Essentially it was two blocks with holes for the cell ends, with tinned copper braid for contacts, and a spring to force the connection on each cell.

I am using the jig again this time, but only doing one cell at a time, and using the same position to do every cell.

Latest frustration was with the copy of MS Excel that was installed on the Win 7 box when I got it... I do NOT like programs that CHANGE the data you enter, after you enter it...

Just solved it, downloaded a copy of Libre Office, sneaker netted it to the Win 7 box, and installed it - no problems, no difficulties just like most Free software, and unlike any of the Wincrap that I've dealt with... Opened the spreadsheet file, which had my data still in it (reversing the Excell diddling) and saved it as an ISO standards compliant .odf file...

Programs that Just Work are so nice...

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Strangely enough, every single version and release of office since office 97 onwards just worked fine too. Only you seem to have a need to use something different to the most popular operating system and office suite on the planet, universally used in the workplace and industry.

Not saying that whatever you used instead doesnt work too, but why do you always want to be on some betamax operating system/office etc?

[Burgerman]

Exspresso, and other lithium/rnet users.

These are the settings you might get best warning from.
Also once I have a word with PG drives I think we can adjust the calibration to read "just" full, after the first few yards. And then the auge wont be accurate, but will start to drop after some use so you know where you are. If they wont tell me then I will break out my meter when I convert the new rnet chair to lithium in a month or so. Since I think I can get it working. At least to a degree.

You can set 6 or 8 bars if you wish. So it warns you before any damage.

[expresso]

i believe this is what i have current - been a while since i went in there - next time i will double check - should i set the flashing bars to 6 then ?

battery level etc, ?

[expresso]

BM - when you get your Rnet going and if you can figure out which setting i need to change to make my chair not slow down if i raise the seat lift up - i dont plan to ride this way but just in case its needed or for some reason gets stuck in slow etc, if it dosnt lower all the way - good to know what to disable in that event

it should be in this section here - but me knowing for sure - i wont play around with guessing unless i have no choice - i know i can always reprogram if i make a mistake - i rather make a change when in know which one to change -

maybe your chair may be limited in the same way ? or maybe its different in the UK -

[Burgerman]

Set them to flash, and alarm at the point where they normally start to drop, or the point where they are after a long run. About 80% of the trip. Se wiring mOhm lower to reflect the better cables you have. Say 10 or 20. Power will cut off at 22v which is 2.75v. But thats low! So set the 255 secs to 60. Or 30 secs. So you dont run them even lower up some hill.

[Burgerman]

Send me your saved file. Just add .zip to the file name and add to next post. As I dont know which actuators are connested to what/which module! Might not help me. But if I was there I would just change one thing at a time till I find the right device/channel then experiment.

[expresso]

after a 44 mile ride - i have all my greens on my JS - so not sure where to set it etc, - i figured i set it to flash at 3 bars warning me its getting low and cut off at 22V - should i change that to 22.5v or 23V ? -

even if my wires are thicker - i used 8AWG - i dont know if my Chair wiring for power is the same or thinner - i am sure they are not thicker - but if they are thinner - shouldnt i leave that alone ?

the thing is this - the seating part of my chair - is not stock from Sunrise - its from another company - Motion Concepts - adds the upper part to the sunrise frame
and the program settings i am sure are from Motion and not Sunrise i would think -

i think this is the current settings i am using - i have so many saved that i am confused what i am using - when i connect it again to check - i will save the current on the chair and the original i have and delete the rest - getting to confusing now - i have dozens of settings saved-

i only need the original - and what ever i am using now -

take a look at this -