PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[stevelawiw]

Whatch out for project creep!

[ex-Gooserider]

Creeping doesn't work unless you have a really long snorkel... Stick w/ project float....

ex-Gooserider

[terry2]

Fully charge each cell, with the same settings. Then remove say 5Ah from each cell. Be exact. If you fail, and take say 4990mAh out, or 5200mAh then write it on the cell. Ant thats fine. Dont be more out than a few hundred mA.
Do all.
Wait a month if your patience allows.
Then charge each cell individually. And make a note of the exact mAh returned. And write that on each cell under the first figure. It should be a larger amount. The difference is what it lost.
Write that under the two figures...

Great info.

BM have you still got the PL8 setting file\zip for a single 170 ah cell?

[Burgerman]

Yes. Will post later...

[terry2]

I will have to change the layout of the cells.
It's because the R-Net is placed down the centre of the battery bay. So I need to put the cells like in pic below.
Can it be done? Thanks in advance

[Irving]

I will have to change the layout of the cells.
It's because the R-Net is placed down the centre of the battery bay. So I need to put the cells like in pic below.
Can it be done? Thanks in advance

Yes, you wire in series + to - on each side and then one wire + to - across between the two sets of 4, leaving a free + on one side and a free - on the other.

What batteries were fitted originally?

[terry2]

I will have to change the layout of the cells.
It's because the R-Net is placed down the centre of the battery bay. So I need to put the cells like in pic below.
Can it be done? Thanks in advance

Yes, you wire in series + to - on each side and then one wire + to - across between the two sets of 4, leaving a free + on one side and a free - on the other.

What batteries were fitted originally?

That's great news. Thank you.

I have 2 82 amp(I think) Gel batteries.
I only done 16 miles the other day at 8 mph. And I lost 2 of the 3 green bars.

[Burgerman]

Here we go again. The bars do not measure battery capacity. They measure volts. And those are very different things. Drive up a couple of ramps, do a bunch of zero speed turns, and a full battery will show a couple of bars lost. Reality is that you used just a couple of % charge. But the VOLTAGE is depressed. Wait 6 hours and the lights come back. As te battery voltage recovers. The state of charge does not change.

Likewise, after 16 miles, the lights SHOULD be at almost dead... But you drove at low current, and so while all the CAPACITY is used up, the voltage remains high. So you ONLY SEE a couple of lights out. But unlike above, the battery is basically empty. Battery meter basically are only there to make a user feel good, and to show red when its really done.

[expresso]

When using Lead - if i lost the first Green bar - time to turn around and go home - if i kept going - i wont make it bad and have gotten stuck on the way back once or twice which was the last straw which made me go lithium that winter and never looked back since

[ICEUK]

I agree expresso, for me two lights down and it was time to go back home.

[Tomkilmore]

Has anyone used this company before?

https://www.ev-power.eu/Winston-40Ah-200Ah/

[Burgerman]

The company, many have used. But you dont want those cells.

[Tomkilmore]

winston or 40ah winston?, i'm looking at 100ah winston, it was just the title that said 40ah

tom k

[Burgerman]

They are physically too big.

You can fit 16x 105Ah cells in place of a set of grp24 batts.

Gving you 210Ah in the same space for around 1k delivered.

[ICEUK]

My 16x 105ah lithium batteries have just been delivered. I will get some pictures up of them and the packaging. I used a different supplier, only because he was really responsive to my questions


BM have you got a charge parameters for the pl8 and i charge them all individually then take 10mah out and leave them for a month and see what i put back in and match them up?

Sry if i have it wrong

[teppic]

From a recent query to Headway.
Please can you confirm these are genuine headway?
19 Jan 2020

https://www.greenbikekit.com/e-bike-lit ... -cell.html

http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?mai ... ucts_id=21

https://eclipsebikes.com/product_info.p ... ucts_id=91

徐云
20 Jan 2020, 08:23
to me

No, they are not genuine Headway, the first two are trading companies in China, and the third once purchased from us, but it appeared that they stopped the direct purchasing from us for two years.

BR
China Headoffice:Headway Group （cables&batteries)
German company: Head Tech Energie GmBH
Addr.: Cromforder Allee 77, 40878 Ratingen, Germany
Office: Kokkolastrasse 5, 40882 Ratingen, Germany
General Manager
Ji Chen
Tel:+49-021021483379, Handy:+49-017680473463

[Burgerman]

The days of headways are over anyway. We now buy double the capacity ad more in the same volume. Things move on.

My 16x 105ah lithium batteries have just been delivered. I will get some pictures up of them and the packaging. I used a different supplier, only because he was really responsive to my questions

BM have you got a charge parameters for the pl8 and i charge them all individually then take 10mah out and leave them for a month and see what i put back in and match them up?

Sry if i have it wrong

You have it right, but take say 2000mah out. These are 100Ah cells. Te exact amout doesent matter. Since you only have 16 cells its not really worth the bother. Just fully charge them seperately before assembling the pack.

The single cell preset needs no balance connections.
The full pack one does.

On the full pack version, if CV time is less than 10 or 15 mins in use, REDUCE the termination current till its around 30 mins. If it never ends after say 1 hour after the cells are all balanced, then increase it. It should be OK as it is. Hard to guess...

[stevelawiw]

Received 16x015aH cells from BTS yesterday, it caught me on the hop as I haddn't been expecting them yet, I ordered them on 04 Jan so exactly a month to deliver.
I've performed a visual inspection and checked voltages, all ok except for one where the negative terminal looks like this :-

So I'll have to open a dispute with them about it as it doesn't look right! To me it's either an old cell or maybe it's a new cell but it's been subjected to arching?
Here's the positive terminal of the same cell for comparison.

[Burgerman]

Yep, used, burned and filed or sandpapered. Where are they from? I would capacity test one. If not all.

Fully charged and then discharged at 20C to 2.9V you should get 95% of what was claimed. And 100% +/- 2 or 3 % at 2.5V but I wouldnt go there if they were mine. They buy them untapped. And do it badly themselves in some cases. Use stainless studs, and red loctite.

[stevelawiw]

but I wouldnt go there if they were mine.

What, you mean I should send them all back?

[Burgerman]

No I mean I wouldnt go lower than 2.9V...

Send one back takes a lot of time. See what they say. They might just ship you 1 cell... Check capacity.

[stevelawiw]

Yes I will, thanks.
Cells are from BTS https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33054219276.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.70304c4dJYzQYh

[ICEUK]

That looks pretty rough steve, my batteries arrived yesterday, i just pulled one out to have a quick look it appeard ok. I will pull the rest out tomorrow when i got someone here. I used a different supplier

[stevelawiw]

@ICEUK
Looks like we'll both be busy then!

[ICEUK]

Yea we will be busy but i am no real rush, i was thinking if heatshrinking each cell, then having a piece 5mm steel cut to size to fit all 16 cells on, then heat shrinking it all together. It will add a bit of weight low down.

[ICEUK]

What awg wire should i use to connect the cells together? My cells came without busbars.

[stevelawiw]

I'm using 8awg. Don't know what others think?

The 24awg blue wire is for my balance wire and I'm yet to solder and add some shrink tube on each terminal.

[Burgerman]

Yes. Or use a seperate terminal gor the balance connection loom. Or things will get complicated.

[steves1977uk]

I used seperate terminals for the balancing wires on my build. Makes it easier to diagnose any issues if they arise.

Steve

[foghornleghorn]

I used separate terminals for the balancing wires on my build.

Same here. More likely to get a good connection with the correct size crimps for the different wire gauges.