PINNED - R-Net for dummies

[emilevirus]

Not in US. Anything around $100 is cracked. I paid $100 for the led one used. A good cond CJSM is around $175.

[Burgerman]

Because you are just going on eBay and looking at the ones that NOBODY BOUGHT.

If I look on ebay right now I will never see the cheap stuff that I bought. Just overpriced junk and used stuff.

Cheap and unused stuff appears very infrequently, and about 3 minutes later its gone. You will never see it.
I scan 3 or 4 countries ebay, including the US, daily and I have bought parts from everywhere. Some people set up alerts for various searches. I search for unusual things including misspellings, and for thing that are sold incorrectly. People list things badly. Like "brain" for wheelchair instead of Power Module. Or mobility instead of R-Net etc. Or control stick, etc. They also do things like rnet instead of r-net or call it something like a (name of a wheelchair) controller or something. Search for sunrise under parts or mobility. And other brand names. You have to learn to fish.

Trust me the good and cheap stuff does appear. Then someone like me makes a silly offer, and within a matter of minutes its gone. You MUST be patient. You must search a lot and often. And if something appears make a daft offer. Buy as soon as you get a reply. If its really cheap dont offer, buy regardless fast or someone else will.

I have SIX joysticks, all can be used on any chair, all brand new. 2 LED, 1 CJSM, 3 CJSM2 (All between 40 and £150)
I have FIVE 120A power modules all either used but unmarked, new, or less than a couple of hours in the logs. (All £50 or less.)
I have FOUR ISM6L seating and lighting modules. (£0 free with a power module, £40 to £50)
I have 2 attendant controls to take apart to make RC interface, (£20 and free.)
A couple of distribution blocks, (£20 £25)
A huge box of bus cables of many lengths, and battery looms from random chairs. Some came free with other parts some bought maybe £50?

That gives me enough COMPLETE high end CJSM2, Seating and lighting modules, and 120A power modules to build 3 complete rehab chairs.
And still have 3 joysticks, 2 power modules, as spares or for 2 more non rehab chairs...

The LOT cost me around a grand. Over 5 years of aquiring this.
Why? Because its a good system, and the ability to properly program a powerchair is goin away. This is the last one, all the rest are locked down. I am 64, so this will see me out. I can retro fit to chairs with crap systems, use it as spares, or whatever. All joysticks are new. All the rest is as good as new or actually new.

Its all about fishing eBay, here, and patience and perseverence!

[Burgerman]

Right now the only thing thats good is this.
An ISM6-L module. Brand new.


Says offers. Offer £30
He will reply 40, then buy...

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156567737844

And... And a LED joystick claims is never used, looks dusty. Like been stored. I have many like that.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/156636530378
Same seller, offer and dont pay more than £40. (I bought a NEW CJSM1 for £80 from him).

EVERYTHING else is way overpriced right now.

[BCrip71]

Do you ever buy the Permobil branded joysticks? There seems to be lots of them on Ebay.

[Burgerman]

No. They have a few issues as far as I can see.
1. I only buy new, unused, or factory refurbished by PGDT. Which is the same thing, And there are non. So all tatty old and used...
3. Its got two buttons that I use all the time missing...
3. Cant see the smaller screen, outdoors as its dull like the CJSM1 SCREEN.
4. Its permobil and whilst this in made for them under some special arangement by Curtis it would seem its using different firmware and I dont want to find out what problems that will or will not cause me.

[emilevirus]

I just received my led joystick and it doesn't power on at all. Anything I must do or is it dead?

[Burgerman]

Really?
Do other joysticks power on in the same situation? As in test by substitution?

If so then yes its dead. Contact paypal, get refund... Never saw one that was completely dead.


Many years ago I had a bad gearbox that just locked up. It was really the cush drive rubber that was jamming. It DID go backwards. All the way home about a mile...

[emilevirus]

I contacted the seller. He refunded me straight away. But weird I tried on my other chair. It beeped when I plugged it in and lights came on flashing now wont turn on again.
But when I plug a new JSM it will do some kind of update and ask me to reboot the joystick. This one I can't see any of that.

[Burgerman]

Whats it from? Is it new/refurb.

[emilevirus]

Whats it from? Is it new/refurb.

Nah, was used & very dirty. Just ordered a CJSM brand new.
But I read it could be anti theft protection?

[emilevirus]

I opened it up, cleaned everything with alcohol. Boom started working!

[Burgerman]

Invest in a tin of switch cleaner, contact cleaner or whatever it may be called were you live.

I use it on all connectors and looms or computers etc all the time. I fixed my non working mouse buttons on my laptop this week. Deoxit.

It deoxidises, cleans metals, and leaves a film on the surface that "wets" the contact areas so that it makes better contact. Seems to fix a million intermittent electrical connectivity issues. And prevents it happening.

[JohnnyUK]

I'm in the midst of agreeing an order with Wheelchair Services (WCS) for Q300R with lift/tilt/recline. It's just the 90A R-Net controller with CJSM2 Joystick and lighting module. WCS have added an OMNI 2 without display and I don't know what it's for, presumably an I/O device which is part of the R-Net system. Can anyone explain what it does in layman's terms?

Although not good value for money I've also specified a Button Module, I prefer to drive with my right hand and control seat functions with left whilst on the move. That way I don't have to stop and joggle the joystick functions to adjust seat. This seems to have blown a fuse with WCS who say the Sunrise Order Form won't let them add Ctrl+5 as it conflicts with the Recline function but I can't see why it would. The Ctrl+5 Direct Access Switchbox is supposed to be plug n play on the R-Net system, again any advice would be appreciated.

This is the Ctrl+5 DAC Unit ....
https://www.sunrisemedical.eu/powered-w ... l-5-switch

[rover220]

Omni 2 is pointless and will not function without the display.

[Burgerman]

The ctrl-5 works as standalone and conflicts with nothing and ids fully progrmable. Omni2? What for?

[JohnnyUK]

WCS admit they don't understand R-Net (or wheelchairs) so I'm now waiting for the Sunrise Rep to respond to my questions, apparently I'm not allowed to speak with the Rep directly. WCS say I need the OMNI 2 to support seat functions, it's described as an 'Input Control Module R-Net', they say the Display is omitted as this is available via the CJSM2 Joystick. But what is it supposed to do? It's on the standard R-Net list of options

Thanks for confirming Ctrl+5 is fully compatible with R-Net, I've told them to get on with it and stop prevaricating.

I refused to pay for tilt & lift so they've agreed to use their stock mechanisms and fit to the chair when Sunrise deliver to WCS, what could possibly go wrong??!!

They've also charged me £100 for the C-Me function ENABLING. This means I have to pay for the privilege of driving at max 4.8kph in Full Lift, otherwise it goes into creep mode. I'm sure you people with programming capability could do this without paying, they insist on me paying £46 for a mirror that will go straight in the bin otherwise I can't have 6mph. It's not easy dealing with these people

[Burgerman]

WCS admit they don't understand R-Net (or wheelchairs)

That as a fact really is true. Which considering that this is their ONLY JOB! And the only thing that they are paid to do, is beyong a joke. Socialism. Working as expected!

so I'm now waiting for the Sunrise Rep to respond to my questions, apparently I'm not allowed to speak with the Rep directly.

Once that we determined, after a few meetings and some rather fun letters, and arguments with their bosses, and the hospital administartion they not only DID allow me access to the rep but they insisted as they had no clue what I was talking about. The rep was shown the problems with their current line of chairs, and shown that I drive off curbs, wheelie all the time etc and decided I would destroy a Q500 Q700 chair and that the arms, seating, weird rear suspension, and narrow front caster arms were a problem. Next was the Dietz rep. That you already dont like. Cant say he said a lot as I told him waht I wanted and why and he just wrote it down. So not only CAN you speak to the rep, the WCS were the ones that insisted in my case. Two different companies.

WCS say I need the OMNI 2 to support seat functions, it's described as an 'Input Control Module R-Net', they say the Display is omitted as this is available via the CJSM2 Joystick. But what is it supposed to do? It's on the standard R-Net list of options

They dont have any clue what they are talking about.
The standard joystick does all the seating options. So does the CRTL-5 on the left arm as you wanted at great expense!
The Omni devices are for adding alternate input methods such as a head array, or in my case Radio Control... And again it needs a screen, and it wont help you at all in any way. You have nothing to plug into it!
They really are incompetant. Never underestimate the sheer level of incompetance of the WCS. Or any civil servant for that matter.

Thanks for confirming Ctrl+5 is fully compatible with R-Net, I've told them to get on with it and stop prevaricating.

Its a thing that sunrise offer only but it should be able to be made to work on any r-net module with sunrise software. You can also just remap the buttons on the CJSM2 joystick to do the same thing for free though. And thats what I do as the switches get in my way.

I refused to pay for tilt & lift so they've agreed to use their stock mechanisms and fit to the chair when Sunrise deliver to WCS, what could possibly go wrong??!!

If you identify a clinical requirement for lift or tilt and a or a holistic need then they have to cough. They paid for lift, tilt, recline, power centre foortest on my last few chairs without any issues.

So what are the buttons for?
You want tilt, surely?

They've also charged me £100 for the C-Me function ENABLING. This means I have to pay for the privilege of driving at max 4.8kph in Full Lift, otherwise it goes into creep mode. I'm sure you people with programming capability could do this without paying, they insist on me paying £46 for a mirror that will go straight in the bin otherwise I can't have 6mph. It's not easy dealing with these people

Yes 5 seconds to disable a speed inhibit.
But you said no lift?
And the law requires they send a mirror. And that it has lights. Its worth about £5. I have a box of them rusting away in the garage.

[JohnnyUK]

It was your advice John that led me to give them an ultimatum last week, if the chair wasn't on order by the weekend I'd withdraw the Application and pass the case to my solicitor. Under pressure they accepted Lift & Tilt as holistic needs and a gesture of goodwill, I paid the extra for other items I wanted as I haven't got the time (or your tenacity) to continue 'negotiating' with them. So I paid them straight away yet they still haven't organised an order. I phoned Sunrise Technical yesterday and they think there's an issue with the ordering system there shouldn't be a problem with the spec, I passed WCS the contact details for Sunrise Technical who offered sort it over the phone. But no, apparently they need to speak with Their special Rep to agree it. It's almost impossible to get them to specify on the Order that I require 5 degrees of seat dump and the seat setting back as far as possible! And no 'dumbing down' of the program chair needs to be responsive.

Couldn't agree more they're useless at doing their job. My 'Assessor' thinks it's ok to be a clinical expert who knows nothing about the technology he's employed to prescribe, you can't make this stuff up. They've already warned me NOT to mess with the chair especially the programs otherwise they'll know ... like I should be scared or something. They're proper idiots, even their General manager has no authority.

I'll use the buttons to do tilt, recline and lift. I may put the speed control on one button, probably the horn on the other and there's 5 more assignments when I think of things that'll work. The USB charger looks handy too. It's far from essential but I've got one on another chair and find it useful, especially moving around kitchen where I can elevate en route to the cupboard/microwave etc.

The speed inhibit is still a nuisance at 4.8kph, what's wrong with full speed if your sensible when you use it? I've shorted the safety circuit out on Quantum chair as it was moving at less than 1mph and I can't change the program, it now goes full speed (4mph) whilst elevated and I haven't had a problem. I wouldn't go full speed down a ramp and turn sharp at the bottom as it would be very expensive and hurt a lot

Thanks for your comments now I can be confident that I'm not asking for anything that can't be done

[Burgerman]

And no 'dumbing down' of the program chair needs to be responsive.

ALL chairs have dumbed down, frankly dangerous stock programming. The supplier or sunrise will not know what you mean as they think that that is "normal"...

So in order to remap buttons on joystick, or on CTRL-5 or any one of the other things like speed restrictions on tilt or lift etc you will need a programmer. That they wont "let" you use, or have because they have abslutely know idea what the hell you are talking about. And in order to make the chair actually do what the joystick tells it you will need to program 6 or 7 things correctly. And drastically different to stock.

I got a letter saying that they heard I programmed my chair, and that it wasnt safe. So that they must send their engineer to set it all back to the "correct" settings or they would remove the chair. I laughed at them. Told them to contact me when they had someone there with a clue. So lots of threats and bluster. No action. I suggested they would look mighty silly in court when I demonstrated how incompetant they were and that they wanted to remove a properly programmed chair from someone that needed it to even be in court...

It all went quiet again after that. They really are moronic incompetant idiots that the socialist NHS system forces us to have to deal with.
Some even mean well. Not many. But the sheer level of incompetance is astounding. I dont suffer these idiots at all well. They know this to their cost as I have had a lot of "discussions" with them and their bosses in the past and I dont worry about telling them exactly how it is. They get really offended at the truth. Dont swear, dont shout. Destroy them and their ideas with FACTS and LOGIC and their own letters and remit.

One example of this is that they told me that I am not allowed to adjust or change anything in a letter. That they must do it. That same letter they made me sign says I must READ THE MANUAL. Which explains under the USER section in massive detail exactly how I should adjust everything...
Shot in foot again. They really are morons. I dont think they have any clients capable of thinking before. They think we are as dumb as they are.

[JohnnyUK]

Well you did warn me this wouldn't be easy, I'd already given up with the Application I put in last year which I cancelled after 3 months of nothing and ended up buying my own chairs. I couldn't agree more they are utter morons, fancy admitting you know nothing about powerchair technology when you're employed to prescribe it. Yep it's sheer incompetence!!

Ok I can see now that it's a waste of time telling them not to 'dumb down' the program if they think they've already developed the perfect 'one size fits all' parameters. I've made sure whatever crap chair I get includes an accessible version of R-Net so I can access the program in future. I haven't got the equipment or the skill to do this now. Let's hope the chair is delivered in a driveable state, I'm only light so it shouldn't be as critical for me as it is to heavier users. From your experiences over many years I know I'll have issues when I get the chair, it's great for me to have these threads and learn a bit more.

Wow I didn't think they would go to the trouble of sending out a special agent to make your chair program 'safe and effective', I've just had veiled threats so far and haven't even got the chair yet. Bunch off clowns playing with taxpayers ill gotten gains, they want me to beg for what I'm entitled to.

I've fired another salvo at WCS this morning, they've suggested I phone Sunrise Tech and sort out the anomalies with their order so Sunrise can tell WCS what to do. So I will

[Burgerman]

The problem is that they insert themselves in between the chair supplier and you. And they dont know anything.

Its like a phd student trying to talk to his professor via the kindergarten teacher, who has all the power...

[JohnnyUK]

Nice analogy

I've decided to cut WCS out of the system so now organising the order via Sunrise. WCS have begged me not to visit Sleaford

[Burgerman]

What happens there?

[JohnnyUK]

It's NRS Healthcare's Office/Warehouse which allegedly serves my area masquerading as Wheelchair Services

[Burgerman]

Oh. I would make sure you are there with a bodycam, every day at 10am. Thats what it takes. Take them apart with logic, their own rules, their own remit, their own communications. Make them scared of you turning up. Dont shout. Dont swear. Facts are way better. And INSIST that you want to speak to whowever is in charge and when they are not there insist that you want a meeting aranged and dont let them scurry away where you cant get at them as they will try to do.

Have some fun.

[JohnnyUK]

I'm sure you would do that and it would be amusing, regret I haven't got your sporting approach, determination and endurance. Pity I can't send you in as my advocate they wouldn't like that, it sounds intense and the institutionalised socialists don't like conflict

Surely they can't string it out much longer now I've paid my 'contribution' ... breach of contract next?! They've had 16 weeks so far I'll let you know when it actually arrives, meanwhile I'll vacate this R-Net thread seems I've drifted off topic

[Burgerman]

You will miss out on the amusement value though! Makes my day.

Can they string it out? The fact that you gave them money wont make a blind bit of difference. Why would you do that...

And thats because their money is helicopter money. Sprinkled in at the top regardless of productivity. Their job as they see it is to make their own days easier, and pay more and to have no actual personal responsibility for anything. So year on year they add more and more beurocracy, forms, papers, rules, systems, training "jollies", hols and days off, work from home, etc. And internal systems nonsense studies on efficiency, studies on diversity, studies on everything, and extra layers of management to do the job that they didnt like doing themselves last year. So like all socialist ststems it gets ever worse year on year. As such they hang around in groups and hold each others hand too. Let me guess there was more than one during your assessement?

Then they push some forms, fill in stuff, arrange panel meetings, have meetings about meetinbgs, push some more papers around, hire a diversity manager, and write you letters, and then send some finalised questions to the CCG which is a group of doctors in some pub that make 100 decisions a night on additional pay, masquarading as work and give each one about 10 seconds. That happens 1 to 2 times a month. Most months but not all, because holidays get in the way. Then the paper pushing starts again. Rinse and repeat.

Pleasing the nuisance (you) who isnt the one paying their wages, as happens in the real private outside non socialist world, (the very reason I can call my Vet on a sunday night and get him here in 30 mins) isnt there. Under a socialist system there is no drive to please you. They get paid regardless. You are a problem to be solved or delayed. And they dont need to be fast, effiicient, to be capable, to offer decent service or anything else. And they dont, why would they? Like every government run department its useless, slow, hopelessely incompetant. Thats why trump/elon are busy firing 10s or thousands of such idiots in the USA as we speak. These people make up 35% of all the people in the UK that are "working". The civil servants produce nothing. Are a massive cost to the tax payer and non of it works. Right across the civil service.

*******************
Explain this to them daily, and ask them why it takes more than 30 mins to assess, order a CORRECTLY SPECCED chair. And transfer the £££. Because thats how long it takes me. Turn up, tell them this daily, and ask what they achieved yesterday. And what they will do today.

[Mr TT]

Is there a thread that explains the order in which you install
the OEM software
The drivers
the dongle D50610.02

[Burgerman]

Order doesent really matter.

I would install software so dealer or/and OEM level for your chair brand.
Driver, theres a new one for those sadly inflicted with windows 11, RESTART THE PC.
Then when you connect the dongle, in between joystick and power module, (or in a loose "end" cable, doesent matter) and switch the chair on. And start the software. It should display CONNECTED bottom right on the softwares screen.

[Mr TT]

Yes you are right, it was a Windows 11 issue. I used to be able to right click and then click install and they would install the drivers. Now I have to go into device manager, update the missing driver for R-net, point out the right directory, and then the drivers loaded successfully.

It's not really a chair brand any more, as I've adapted it changing it to R-net. It`s been fine for years but I have a new gadget, which requires me turning off the sleep.