PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[ex-Gooserider]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8mXh6THEKo

These things are way louder than turbines and more fun... And cheap to build. And cheap fuel. (Mix of Kerosene and propylene oxide)

I have one stuck on my ceiling here in my room...

Didn't your mum tell you not to try flying that thing inside

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

You may well laugh. I have RUN the big turbine in my room. After 10 seconds we couldn't breath and turned off the fuel and ran away. And my friend was holding it on a lump of plywood on my bed. It blew the lid off my scanner...

[popschief]

Reminds me of Art Arfons and his Green Monster. While test running in his garage he blew down his neighbors fence.
bp

[Burgerman]

As an ex drag racer and nitrous injection system design guy, turbine building nut, pulse jet flyer, builder of turbo bikes and V8 motor transplants and much more and general fruitcake, who spent years helping testing tuned superbikes and dynamometer testing for several magazines, inc testing at a Bruntingthorpe 2 mile test strip, I tend to know a lot of similar people to him. I spent most of my life doing similar things and meeting many like minded hooligans. Such things as blowing down a neibours fence are seen as good fun things!

And they are all great fun, super friendly, completely bonkers and non of them realise it.

[mous3]

Well I bench tested my biggest motor 10s with a 22x10 prop the beach was 3m long and we wedged it across the door frame of the model club potacabin @ 600w and 1/3 stick the bench smarted to go through the wall curent draw was a mear 32a but that and accidental using a workmate as a training undercarage for my 40 sized shutle heli that got a hacker mounted in it are about as nuts as my flying has got. Though today gravity got me up to a very scary speed with bits of hot melting tyre flicking up in my face. Road home on grass and duck tape. Continental are not getting me to part with any more cash for handbike tyers it was new on 2 weeks ago.
But speed is good and having the village pharmacy at the bottom of a 1/4 hill gives me an excuse to go nuts on a weekly basis. And a pair of small pulse jets would make the return trip faster and if nothing else more entertaining.

[Burgerman]

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/stor ... ystem.html

These are noisy but not powerful. 2 will only give a 7lb push...

And they use no proper internal fuel injector or pump so run erratically. But cheap for a laugh.

[mous3]

Is get more trust from a prop in a sallow duct, and it would be lighter and still loud enough to attract attention.

[Burgerman]

This would get more!

This is a photograph of noise!

The guys starting this have ear plugs. The crowd don't.

[davidpaul]

Can these cells be run with a pilot + 100a system ? and is there a diagram on how to build them into a 22nf size battery ? (24v and more than 50ah)

[Burgerman]

It will work with pilot plus as long as you ignore battery gauge.

As to how many cells and how many Ah it depends on the space you have.

Theres a page here that may help:
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/convert ... ithium.htm

[davidpaul]

Thank you

[davidpaul]

Can these cells stand on their end rather than flat ? if they can I think it will work out better for my 22nf battery size box. I'm thinking about standing them on end and fitting some rubber mat on the bottom of the battery box to reduce the chance of damage/arcing.

[Burgerman]

They don't care. Whatever size cell, whatever configuration, gives the best installed capacity. The only proviso is that you end up with 8 groups of cells. For 24v.

[mous3]

My quad bike at the farm needs replacement my folks are looking at an electric one it uses 6x 12v 55ha AMG cells I like the idea if something quiet but a poxy range of 30miles at max 38mph is pants. It's 5 miles of the road then 20 the train station and shops but lithium coversion.... It's the charging and balancing that has me silently screaming petrol as it would be up to them 80% of the time to keep it running could it be done on a hobbie charger as 58v or should I start screaming LPG till they give in

[woodygb]

I think that you ought to start ...pouting and screaming.

[mous3]

I will throw my best aspergers temper tantrums at them and add that a new 320cc all 4x4 is half the cost and way more fun and still VAT and tax free if registered I my name.

[mous3]

I was building my pack and.... Well I managed to short at least one cell buy droping the Allen key I have undone the cells and just put them to one side so what i want to know is how likely that it only killed 2 cells and not the other 14 in the main block I was working on.
I will hand over to heli_bee tomorrow fingers x he can sort out at least 16 good cells.

[woodygb]

The cells may not be damaged ... stick them on the charger and see.
Run them through a charge / discharge cycle to see if the Ah's is affected.

[Burgerman]

The cells will be fine unless the Allen key was glowing orange, and the cell got hot. Few sparks nothing to worry about.

But when assembling packs you need care, rubber gloves, and if you are not accurate a roll of masking tape!

[mous3]

Yep lesson learnt I at times have dexterity problems with making my hands do what I want no use of thumbs in opposition
their was sparks and 2 cells got very hot for a few seconds, it tried to weld the Alankey across the terminals I knocked it free fast. heat shrinking the middle of all my Alankeys now.
Thank-you for the encourageing news that they aren't all likely fried.

We will see

[Burgerman]

I have tortured a couple of dented cells I dropped, and the only things that seemed to hurt them was over when discharged to below 2v, and sat outside in a bucket of water all winter until all corroded... They still charged up, but had lost half the capacity. I shorted them, overcharged them drastically, to test for safety as I am going to be sat on 78 of them!

[mous3]

My hyperion charges max capacity of 60000ma will not seam to be able to set discharge to more its the SOS0606i I know it ignores the capacity setting for charging but reading instructions makes me confused as says max discharge 6000.
But is this 6000ma or 6ha or 60ha I think I should just leave well alone this evening. I charger duo to play with tomorrow plug in to tablet and operate by voice test on some dumb nicads first.

[Burgerman]

You should be using the 1420i?

Never played with the smaller ones...

The firmware is similar but not the same.

Not sure what you are asking. Or seeing...

BUT:
1Ah SHORT FOR 1 Amp Hour (not Ha or hA) It is exactly the same thing as 1000mAh

So a 12Ah cell, will probably read as 12000mah. That's milli Amp Hours (or milli Amps for charge current) - it just adds 3 zeros! It means exactly the same thing. Once you get to bigger batteries or bigger charge rates there are too many zeros so they use Amp hours or Amps.

Set discharge max...

My hyperion charges max capacity of 60000ma

That's the same as 60Ah. Are you running old outdated firmware? Because I thought I had them change all that years ago... Should go to 100Ah. At least the 1420i does. And for what its worth they all will charge an extra 40 percent max over what you set. But the "cut off" charge point in Amps is 100thc and all cells within 0.007v of each other. so depends on the capacity you choose...

[mous3]

It was free. I'm just geting confused with to many 000s don't think i can update this one I will post about my main charger once I get to play with it tomorow

[mous3]

ALL CELLS OK I didn't stuff up I'd put it all together fine it was just the very last bus bar, should have stopped when i had to start doing bits cackhanded. Balancing loom all drawn out measured cables cut and labeled when I left heli_bee's

[Burgerman]

Because hobby chargers only balance at 300 to 1000 ma, it may or may not take a very long time to charge initially.

So set it to charge at a sensible rate like 5 Amps, and set it to continue, so that it holds the cells at 3.600v for a long time.

Then NEVER allow the charger to balance the battery on STORE, or DISCHARGE or anywhere else except at 100 percent full.

[mous3]

Will do the hyperion I have can not have software updates. My Icharger duo 308 is programmed up to balance charge and float cells for 2hrs or should I extend the float time, 4 is the max I like the input buttons on this over the hyperion and th screen is easier for me to read.

[Burgerman]

2 is enough after charge.

[mous3]

OMG LiFe where have you been just taken new pack out for a spin it feels so good no lagging on the hills crossed the feild without slowing down love the new cell lead is dead chair is noticeably quicker smother and responded better.

[Burgerman]

The lack of slowing is called TORQUE

You get that because the battery has a MUCH lower internal resistance, and almost no Peukert affect.

The reason I use Odyssey lead batteries, rather than crappy generic AGMs, or gel MK batteries, is for the very same reason. Far less voltage drop under load. Feels good doesn't it!

Just be wary of exhausting the batteries.
The LEAD ones don't let you. They slowly get weaker and weaker until you stop. At which point there's still lots actually left in them that you cant use. With lithium they will keep going, until 99.9 percent then dead. You will feel it slow over a few mins. As soon as you detect it, stop.