Global warming...

[Burgerman]

That isn't true.

Why are diamonds, gold or moon rocks expensive? And sand is cheap?

Try ordering a ton of sand, and a ton of diamonds, then tell me why one is not as expensive.

Or why do rare antiques sell for high prices? Or why a glut of anything causes the market price on or off the stock market to drop like a stone?

If you had the only decent oilfield/reserves left on the planet, that oil would be very valuable.
Until someone discovers another field 1000 times bigger... Then oil prices will fall.

Another example. Last few tickets sold illegally for any big event, fetch 10x face value. Scarcity, supply and demand drive prices of everything.

The law of supply and demand always changes prices.

[s7even]

why are diamonds expensive? I don't know there isn't a shortage of them. That's a whole new topic. Gold isn't actually that valuable - sure it's nice in electronics because of it's conductivity but it's not really that special or even that rare. Diamonds are at least useful for machining super hard stuff. Sand is glass, some glass is expensive. Why?

[Burgerman]

Gold is rare. So are diamonds. In both cases extracting them is expensive too. That's why you cant get a ton of gold or diamonds delivered unless you are as rich as a small country. And a ton of sand is £20...

[s7even]

They are probably as rare as fossil fuels. Global warming being man made is a fictitious narrative just like the scarcity of gold and diamonds. It's hard to extract. Like windows are hard to manufacture. So a ton of those will probably be £20k it's basically sand though.

Inflation can only ever go up. Capitalism is flawed. Endless inflation can't be sustained then it crashes. History shows that.

Global warming is a distraction.
Sorry my brain jumps around a lot like a pissed blue bottle bouncing off fragments of concepts.

[motoman]

Capitalism is flawed.

If thats the case whats the alternative? Socialism? Every socialist country has failed.

And diamonds are not as rare as one would think. The De Beers company has had a monopoly on them for nearly 100 years (I think) and they artificially inflate prices by controlling availability.

[s7even]

...that's what I'm saying.

Socialism isn't really an alternative to capitalism. I don't have an alternative because it's complex. Well it is and it isn't.

Basically there are resources on the planet and we share those resources. Capitalism isn't fair. It lets the rich get more than their fare share and the poor have to do all the work to share out what's left. It's just greed. Part of the human condition.

[sacharlie]

Capitalism is flawed.

If thats the case whats the alternative? Socialism? Every socialist country has failed.

Thats just not true, maybe what you were taught and constantly promoted but not true. Also every country that has taken back its own resources from the corporate thieves of the IMF and WB has been pronounced a socialist state by whichever country promotes those corporations.

[Burgerman]

And the latest country to allow totally uncontrolled capitalism appears to have gone from poverty to massive expansion, with plenty of signs of overtaking the USA in about 10 years... China. All controls were removed and things were left pure.

It works beautifully... Its new, will need some controls, and has problems, but billions are no longer in the desperate poverty that they were.

Want to be poor, go broke? Then dilute capitalism, add too many controls. And if not, do as china... Or Hong Kong...

Check out east/west Germany differences after the war too...

Socialism is fair, everyone is poor.
Capitalism is unfair, but the poorest are as rich as the average in a socialist country or better. More people eat and suffer less.

[s7even]

True global socialism can't coexist with capitalism. So the socialism you've seen fail has failed because of capitalism. The answer isn't socialism nor is it capitalism. There are not two options. It's not East vs West, left vs right. Or libs vs dems.

[Lord Chatterley]

why are diamonds expensive? I don't know there isn't a shortage of them. That's a whole new topic. Gold isn't actually that valuable - sure it's nice in electronics because of it's conductivity but it's not really that special or even that rare. Diamonds are at least useful for machining super hard stuff. Sand is glass, some glass is expensive. Why?

We did not know the answer this question until that chap Jevons came along!!

It was finally explained in full by the Theory of Marginal Utility thanks to three economists, Jevons in England, Menger in Austria, and Walras in Switzerland. Their Theories form the foundation of Austrian School economics which is consistent with freedom and capitalism.

Naturally, collectivist governments like our own government do not recognise the validity of Austrian School economics - governments prefer the discredited theories of Karl Marx, J.M. Keynes and others which favour state ownership and control of the means of production, distribution and exchange.

The best Austrian School economist today is George Reisman - his seminal treatise on Capitalism, which took him 13 years to complete, is offered by him free below-

http://mises.org/books/capitalism.pdf

It explains why David Beckham is paid so much, why diamonds cost a lot and why gold should be the standard of currency.
Add it to your bookmarks.

LC

[Lord Chatterley]

They are probably as rare as fossil fuels. Global warming being man made is a fictitious narrative just like the scarcity of gold and diamonds. It's hard to extract. Like windows are hard to manufacture. So a ton of those will probably be £20k it's basically sand though.

Inflation can only ever go up. Capitalism is flawed. Endless inflation can't be sustained then it crashes. History shows that.

Global warming is a distraction.
Sorry my brain jumps around a lot like a pissed blue bottle bouncing off fragments of concepts.

Actually, history shows overall price deflation i.e. stuff costs relatively less over time as more industry and technology is brought to bear on the process of production.
See Reisman-

http://mises.org/books/capitalism.pdf

LC

[s7even]

The question was rhetorical. Capitalism and economists who think it's a fair way to distribute resources are not forward thinking yes its a progression from barter trade that has served a purpose but it should be deprecated.

Relatively less? If you account for inflation! I wasn't talking about relative nonsense.

[Lord Chatterley]

The De Beers company has had a monopoly on them for nearly 100 years (I think) and they artificially inflate prices by controlling availability.

No. In a free market monopolies are too unstable and short-lived.

A monopoly is a creature of government.

The South African government nationalized all diamond mines, even ones it hadn’t yet discovered. Thus, a property owner who discovers diamonds on his property finds ownership title instantly transferred to the government. Mine operators, in turn, who lease the mines, must get a license from the government. By an interesting happenstance, the licensees have all wound up being either DeBeers itself or operators willing to distribute their diamonds through the DeBeers Central Selling Organization. Miners trying to distribute diamonds in defiance of government restrictions have faced stiff penalties.

LC

[Lord Chatterley]

...that's what I'm saying.

Socialism isn't really an alternative to capitalism. I don't have an alternative because it's complex. Well it is and it isn't.

Basically there are resources on the planet and we share those resources. Capitalism isn't fair. It lets the rich get more than their fare share and the poor have to do all the work to share out what's left. It's just greed. Part of the human condition.

Selfishness and greed - properly defined - are actually important human virtues not vices.

And capitalism is fair - unbridled, unregulated laissez-faire is the only social system whose ruling principle is justice.

LC

[Lord Chatterley]

The question was rhetorical. Capitalism and economists who think it's a fair way to distribute resources are not forward thinking yes its a progression from barter trade that has served a purpose but it should be deprecated.

Relatively less? If you account for inflation! I wasn't talking about relative nonsense.

No. I was using your terms to indicate overall falling prices. Falling prices and deflation are actually not the same thing.

http://mises.org/daily/3296

As for 'a fair way to distribute "resources"' - whose "resources?"

And regarding the alleged "failure" of capitalism I offer a quote from Auberon Herbert, Britain's greatest MP: "It is not laissez-faire that has failed. That would be an ill day for men. What has failed is the courage to see what is true and speak it to the people, to point to the true remedies."

LC

[Lord Chatterley]

True global socialism can't coexist with capitalism. So the socialism you've seen fail has failed because of capitalism. The answer isn't socialism nor is it capitalism. There are not two options. It's not East vs West, left vs right. Or libs vs dems.

The reason true socialism cannot exist is this - if you nationalise the schools, hospitals, banks etc. then you need to compensate the original owners. The only way to do that is by taxes raised from the revenue provided by the non-nationalised sectors of the market.

If you nationalise EVERY shop and business how can you recompense the original owners? You can't - you would be just stealing everyone's business without any means of compensation.

You could do that in Africa, Asia or Russia but you couldn't do that in a civilised country - the owners would retaliate.

The only way government can own the economy today is through price controls i.e. fascism.

So the choice today is capitalism or fascism - take your pick.

LC

[sacharlie]

China promotes China, period! It doesn't waste money and lives in foreign aggression for the benefit of multinational corporations as does the USA. Their progress tax system is absolute in that income is income no special class, you make more you pay more, you use more resources you pay more tax. If China is Capitalism the USA is Crony Capitalism. In the the USA there are just too many kings to count.

[Lord Chatterley]

China is a mixed economy. It is nominally socialist but in reality it's mixture of socialism, fascism, and capitalism - like the US.
It borrowed a lot from John Cowperthwaite's influence in Hong Kong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_James_Cowperthwaite

LC

[Sully]

What you fail to say or maybe see is the differences in the percentages of each political philosophy between the countries you mentioned.

Charlie I think you overestimate China and their political philosophies, the same philosophical corruption you attribute to the US is exacerbated in China. In China the information is far more discretely distributed, that is unless you piss off the self annointed saints of the communist party. Then they take severe action against those who make cardinal sins against the State. Russia does it still a bit different and Putin doesn't even bother to try to cover up his corruption of his Party's philosophy. All those in "Power" do everything to keep that power and that power equals money. Money, money, money, that is what it is all about, with the political and muscular power (MILITARY) to assure the chosen ones retain the Power and Wealth.

I am not going to criticize my own Country, but in November you will get the opportunity to choose your entire House of Representatives as you do every two years, and 1/3 of the Senate. That is if you choose to exercise that opportunity. Let's see if the turn out is within 20% of the 90% + Scottish voter turn out when an apparent break up of the Commonwealth was to take place. I happen to have faith in my Country, I am a Navy Veteran, I did give my country a blank check payable with my life. If they asked me I would do it again. Not that I am of much use today.

Is there corruption within my country? Yes I believe so. But not organized corruption, but individual corruption! That gets caught, the fifth estate who I complain about the most, is like a barking dog, you wish he would stop barking but he barks at all sides. And he barks all the time, we do know sometimes he will either stop or there is a real danger.

[sacharlie]

All I know is that with the help of the IMF and the USA the multinational corporations plundered the resources from many countries of the world. That tactic gave the populace of the USA the highest living standard the world has ever seen and I do enjoy that myself. But today the many countries of the world have awoken and will no longer allow that to continue. We truly do have a NWO now and the multinationals have nothing left to plunder but the USA itself and it is happening. They refuse to pay taxes and make it law that they don't have to. They play every country off another and drive every country and the populace in it into debt. That is every one but China. Multinationals will never ever run China as China has begun to operate as a multinational itself.

[Burgerman]

Wealth and a countries ability to rise from poverty to a decent lifestyle depends of a few things.

But these are the main ones.
Empowering and educating women. This never fails.
Education standards.
Capitalism.

And a society that believes in science, competition, free markets. Yes the rich get very rich. But the poor get richer too. There will always be a massive gap. Some get it, some don't. Some are lucky. But it works better than anything else.

[Lord Chatterley]

Plundered the resources?

Whose resources?

LC

[sacharlie]

You really believe one country's resources is another's for the taking?

[Lord Chatterley]

I know I own absolutely zero of North Sea oil - if I want to own oil shares - or shares in any other mineral I would buy them on the stock market.
The idea that I can hoist my tent next to the Empire State building and somehow claim rights to it on the basis of sheer proximity is absurd.

LC

[Burgerman]

I own some. Light crude oil. In a jar here. Stinks.

[Lord Chatterley]

UK Government awards £16.6 billion of £28.6 billion contract for renewable energy racket...

http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2014/10/3/close-down-decc.html#comments

Funniest quote in the comments:

I have a relative who works at DECC, and has done since getting his masters. He's an environmental economist (one of many in DECC, I imagine), briefing the likes of Huhne, Davey, and Gummer. He appears to know nothing whatever about the climate question, but is fully invested in the warming scare (condition of employment, I guess).
Closing DECC would obviously benefit the country: but it would also benefit many of those who work there. My relative is not an untruthful man, but he has worked since leaving university in an environment where systematic untruthfulness and wishful thinking are the norm; an environment where the taxpayer would get better value if he were paid to stay at home and do nothing. He desperately needs to get out and find a real job (although his qualifications won't help with that).
This comment is anonymous partly because I don't want to foment a family rift, and partly because I am ashamed of having a family member employed in this way.

LC

[Burgerman]

Funny.

Sad too.

[Lord Chatterley]

...and costly - 28 billion quid is quite a sum however you slice it.

LC

[Burgerman]

Well considering that the NHS cant provide many people with a decent wheelchair, an MRI scan, or a cancer treatment, yet the totally waste 13 million a year on HOMEOPATHY which is scientifically proven not to work, nothing ever surprises me.

[Sully]

Not reying to point only to myself, because I did work until I was 65 the age required to retire in the USA in 2004. There is a lot to say about gainfully employed, inside myself (or yourself) as well as the financial gain. What can be said, you either have it inside or not. Too bad there are so many "NOTS"

As far as wheelchairs and Power wheelchairs whether the NIH or Medicare/Medicade, the sales personnel, and manufacturers have polluted the waters when it comes to building good equipment and/or affordable stuff. The cheaters who have applied for or aquired them under false pretenses have spoiled it for the folks who depend on them.
.