PL8 ?

[Willywonka1968]

Hi, I have a ? regarding PL8.

When I charge my 96ah Headway packs at 3.65v[quote][/quote], it goes up to 100% ok but then it says 'done 91%' ?

Does anyone know what the 91% means?

Also, what is the lowest voltage to avoid ? I think BM's page said 3v ?

[Burgerman]

Done? 91 percent is an estimation of state of charge. But its pretty meaningless on LiFePO4 as voltage drops massively in the first few mins after charge even if its really full...

What do you have termination set to?
Charge to either C/20 (which is incorrectly 1/20th of the CHARGE AMPS instead of 1/20th battery capacity. In other words if you charge at say 30A charge will end at 1/20th of this. So at 1.5A. That's really too soon. Hence not full...

So choose MANUAL termination, set it to say 100mA. And...

Oh never mind, use mine!
There's a 101 settings to do. This is correct. (And charge is set to 3.600v)
Attached, rename it by deleting.zip and importing. Change nothing, and charge...

Yes 2.7V is about the end of playtime. It soon drops to 2.5 which is the limit.

[Willywonka1968]

That's very kind of you BM but I'm afraid it's all Greek to me.

I'm a MAC user so I don't use the CCS..just the LCD display.

I'm using A123 accurate balance charge and set it to the maximum 10a charge. I have to work out how I can get 30+ amps out of it....but it doesn't matter for overnight charge. I think the answer lyes in 'modifying presets' but I need to study the manual

This preset is also set to 3.65v which I want to change in accordance with your advice

[Willywonka1968]

I forgot, I don't have termination set to anything? I didn't know it was an option

[Burgerman]

The PC software is about 90 percent of the charger. Realistically you need a modern PC or laptop...

You can use it without but will need to set up a mountain of settings manually with a tiny screen and you probably don't have the newest firmware installed either...
Get a PC (OR access to one!)

1. You need to choose the HIGH POWER A123 PRESET. The others are 10A limited.
2. You then need to set all of the following OR CHARGE MAY BE INCORRECT, not complete/ balanced, or cut short.
Trying to do this on the charger may not be possible or easy and some of these settings might be inaccessible or missing it looks so difficult I never even looked. So:

DETECTION
Low Voltage (L.V.) restore: 2.55V
L.V. restore time: 3 mins
L.V. restore Amps: 500mA
Parallel packs: NONE
Cells: Auto detect

CHARGE
Charge Amps: 30.00 (whatever amps you want based on your battery capacity, or power supply. The charger can do 40, most power supplies cannot.)
Increment: 5mA: NO
Charge Voltage: 3.600V (3.50 to 3.55 will take longer to charge, longer to balance but healthier for the battery. 3.65 volts is faster to balance, less good for the battery. All end up full! if time allows)
Conv Frequency: 125khz
Cold Weather T: NONE (reduces charge voltage in winter for safety, mostly for lipo batteries we don't need it)
F. Average past 1min: NO

DISCHARGE
Disch. Mode: Internal Regenerative
Discharge Profile: Constant Current
Discharge Amps: 5.00A
Discharge volts: 2.50V
CCCV Disch. : NO
Cycles: 1
End Cycle: Charge
Cool Down: 5 min
Store or discharge: NO

BALANCE
Bal Mode: PROPORTIONAL
Bal Speed: 16X
Bal Set point: -1mV
Bal entire charge: NO
Balance Disch.: NO
Balance deadband: 2mV
Balance limit CSET/10: NO
Balance Current: 1000mA

TERMINATION
Term Mode: MANUAL
Manual A setting: (70mA Larger figure like 140mA ends faster. Smaller figure like 40mA ends in a more complete charge. But depending in pack, age etc it may never end. Use whatever works best).
Require Balance Done: YES
Require all charge voltage: YES
C.V. Time out: 8 hours

SCREENS
Ignore all settings

FUEL
Pack capacity 0mAh
Use fuel table: NO
Ignore the rest...

SAFETY
Safety charge stop: NO
Charge timeout: 16 hours
Discharge timeout: 4 days
Err. Amps change: NO

Then make sure your power supply and other settings are correct. Set max Amps at or just below your supplies max. Set minimum volts to half the usual volts. Set power supply volts to your supply. Again its easy to do all this with a PC and the software.

SOME of these may be absent and only adjusted via PC... You need a PC!
Make sure you update to latest firmware 3.32 or newer - check often... Also needs a PC.

[Willywonka1968]

Wow that's a lot of variables for me to input! Thanks for the information.
Unfortunately, it would be easier for me to use the tiny screen than borrow a PC. Borrowing a PC is simply not an option.

I'll get on it over the next week
Cheers again

[greybeard]

Ebay has loads of cheap used Windoze laptops and PCs. You could always re-sell it after you've set your options.

[Burgerman]

Many will already be correct. But I don't know which so you still need to be sure.

[Willywonka1968]

Yes thanks guys
A cheap windows laptop on eBay with a reasonable spec may be an option. Although I doubt it'd take too long on the display (2 hrs or so when you get into a rhythm )

1 more ? If I may.
If lifepo4 cells will last 5 years if treated well.
I purchased mine 16 months ago and have been let down by your best pal, Dr martin, in assembly. when he 'finished' I had to get someone else to basically start from scratch 6 months ago.
Does this mean I'll only get a max of 3 years out of my lifepo4's?

[Willywonka1968]

I've just looked on eBay and there is plenty windows xp laptops under £100
I'll see how difficult it is to do it the hard way first.

[Burgerman]

You went near that guy?

Those cells are good for 10 years plus so I wouldn't worry. Unless he tried charging or balancing them wrong because to call him clueless gives him way too much credit.

You stil need a pc to watch the graphs and see its charging correctly at least initially and periodically.

[Willywonka1968]

I'm afraid I did use that clown. Obviously I didn't know he was a con artist.
I doubt very much he matched the cells in the first place.
He did try charging it but he only had a 2a PS and the fuses kept blowing on him (or so he said)
He also wired up the 2 packs totally wrong. He did it so he had 2 x seperate 12v packs !

[Willywonka1968]

He used the PL8 with his 2a PS which is handy because the PL8 is pretty much idiot proof!

[Burgerman]

That guy is beyond clueless. We wont mention all the other "issues"... He or his "charity" shouldn't be trading.

[Willywonka1968]

Yes he's an evil man
He said he was retiring Xmas 2014, from which company, I don't know. He has 9 active companies and 3 dead ones.

[Burgerman]

And his "charity" seems to exist to charge people telephone numbers, for what can best be described as OLD JUNK powerchairs at crazy prices If you actually get one, and if its the one you bought.

[Willywonka1968]

I don't see how het gets away with the charity label. Don't charity's have a controlling ombudsman?

[Burgerman]

They have to give a percentage of any PROFIT to the charity. In his case he donates by doing lower prices to those needing powerchairs - only out of any profit. After expenses. But you could have fooled me. I never saw prices for used gear so high.

And that percentage of PROFIT may never happen. If you spend enough as a company on computers, tools, vehicles, offices, or HOME office allowances, secretarial work (that might be your relative/wife) or on travel then there's no profit left over. Why do you think he's so keen on traveling to for eg Portugal to see Nandol, even when Nandol didn't want him there? Travel to Portugal for fun/free holiday is then a business cost. All the perks, and no tax to pay is why he is a charity.

[Willywonka1968]

He's playing the system all right. He excels at that but he's no electrical engineer.

Another ?

I converted my chair to lifepo4, headway x 64 cells = 96ah. My old GEL batteries were 80ah

Here's the thing...I only get half the range with the lithiums than the gels !! I can't work it out. I'm a complete novice and I don't use the CCS.

1 of my 8s packs has an IR of 13.5m ohms (I think I interpreted that right). All the others are under 2.0 mohm, so I'm thinking The lovely martin osmont has ruined 8 cells.

Are there any obvious reasons why it's so rubbish?

[Willywonka1968]

I've just discovered a major flaw

After a 1 hours use, it said fuel = 25%

I put it on a 30a charge and it was 100% after exactly 1 hour !! This means my original 96ah pack is now just about 40ah !!

[Burgerman]

I've just discovered a major flaw
After a 1 hours use, it said fuel = 25%
I put it on a 30a charge and it was 100% after exactly 1 hour !! This means my original 96ah pack is now just about 40ah !!

No it doesn't. The "flaw" is probably just that you don't understand what you are doing!

Options.
1. Martin Osment has ruined the cells or some of them. Possible. Unlikely, unless you are now trying to drive about with a dead cell or group of cells (which you probably are by the sounds of things). So DONT!

2. You have it connected up badly, loose connection on one of those MANY connecting screws. Or more likely a big bunch of them, or even most of them if you allowed that retard MO to do this for you. They need to be ALLEN SCREWS and with contact surfaces cleaned and properly tight and loctited. Check all 96 bolts + 96 bolts on the opposite side with care. That's all 192 bolts to be replaced or checked or BOTH. Then check them again. Every single last one. Its very EASY to miss one - even when you think you didn't. Do not be tempted to use the nasty cross head screws they came with - they just don't work... One loose bolt and you will really have problems. You must get this right. Almost every pack that has problems has a loose screw...

3. Its far from fully charged because you NEED to set that charger up correctly -- all parameters -- as I said on that previous post. EVERY single setting matters. As does the firmware version. 3.32 at this time. Or the thing will stop charging long before its fully charged or balanced. IGNORE % FUEL reading. And as I already mentioned don't take any notice of the % as that simply does not work on LiFePO4. Ignoring what I already said before about PC use, and settings, will not help you. It will probably destroy the cells with the lowest charge if you run them too low. You should not try to use this pack at all unless you do as I said, and its all fully charged and balanced and every last setting set up correctly. And monitored on screen with a PC at least the first 6 charges. And then only AFTER you solved all of your problems. DETAILS MATTER!

4. You pack is probably MILES out of balance, and will remain so, and may take many hours 8 or more or even have to restart the charger and another 8 hours, maybe several times - depending on how far out of balance it starts out. To fully balance initially after not being charged or assembled correctly may need a lot of time. Its not doing this now, because you don't have it set up correctly! You NEED a PC and you NEED to monitor the first few charges ON SCREEN. And you NEED to use all of those settings, or just use the file preset I uploaded.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4988#p66617
File preset rename by deleting .zip download/file.php?id=3519

There are no short cuts. Do it properly and you will get at least double the range and a proper charge. Only then can you assess any damage by MO.
Ignore anything here in this post and it really *wont* work, and you are likely to ruin the cells if that hasn't happened already.

[steves1977uk]

This is one of the reasons I will never own a MAC, most software I use doesn't support OSX. Macs are overrated IMO.

[Burgerman]

I agree. Why use BETAMAX when most of the planet, and software, runs on VHS? (windows)...

I have literally dozens of bits of windows only software related to various different devices. Including:

Software:
Hyperion charger
PL8 charger
Quadcopter flight controller
Quadcopter speed controllers
Quadcopter RC System programming
Quadcopter and aircraft GPS/DISPLAY for on screen info
Multimeters
Servos
powerchair programmers (3 at least)
Jet engine programming ands setup tool
Solar panel data collection
And loads of other things...
My own Automotive Dynamometer software

And lots of windows drivers for more stuff...