Powersoccer chair that really kicks

[sepos]

chair is on blocks.

sensors are for both motors, but I take 5v in & ground from same pins for both. is that ok?

voltage out from right sensor goes to pin10 (ANA7) and left to pin 23(ANA8).

[sepos]

this is the sensor

did I mess the wiring...

should I use "Vsense" instead of "Vout"?

[Burgerman]

Those are made in 2 types. And in 50, 100, 150, 200A ratings.

The one you want is 100A, and one on each motor.

They three outputs are 0v, 5v, and output signal.

At zero current, the output is approx. half the input voltage. So feed it 5V (4.7V ish in fact) and the signal will read HALF of this. If yours does not then you have:

Roboteq programmed incorrectly, wring input number, wrong pin, wrong input type, or something. OR:

Wrong sensor type, or you wired it badly somehow.

The answer to all of this is a multi-meter! And some care and testing. V sense simply connects to the main cable and the ground. That means you will read the motor voltage. Which we don't want.

[sepos]

Script says:
LeftCurrentSensorPin = 8 'analog input pin
RightCurrentSensorPin = 7 'analog input pin

eventhough it says Pin here, it refers to Analog input number?
so left current sensor is in Pin 23 = ANA8,is this correct?

[sepos]

configuration I have not changed:
- conversion type: relative
- input use: no action
-min 0
-center 2364
-max 5000
-conversion polarity: direct
- deadband 0
-action min: no
-action max no

[sepos]

GND from sensor: should it go to normal ground or roboteq gnd pin?

[sepos]

voltage in sensor cables seem ok, it is about half of 5v in both. so problem must be on roboteq settings

[Burgerman]

Pin numbers or Input type?

Polarity my need testing and changing. After you can see the 2.5v approx. in roboteq calibration.

[sepos]

what do you refer to by changing polarity?

sensor is connected to negative cable of motor, positive goes directly through as in your picture.
do you mean that I should change gnd and 5v wires?

[Burgerman]

When motor loaded going forwards does the voltage from sensor rise, or fall?

Depends which way around your motors are, and which way around the sensors face, and which way your joystick inputs are set. And theres no negative motor cable. Either wire can be positive depending on direction.

You may need to reverse the sense in the roboteq inputs settings if its incorrect or it will LIMIT current rather than increase it under motor load.

[sepos]

at the moment, it will not change values in roboteq. both remain around 27,

when pushing joystick forward, I can see the impact in roboteq graphs, but wheels are not moving. joystick seem to be properly caliblated, signal is reaching roboteq, but roboteq is not passing right impulse to motors.
steering left or right seem to be working as expected, so wheels and roboteq work in sync.

[LROBBINS]

I suspect that something is wired in a way that the Roboteq isn't seeing it. Could you attach: (1) the configuration profile file that you are using, (2)your script, (3) screen shots of both pin-out diagrams, (4) a list of any connections in the DB25 or DB9 plugs that aren't labeled in the pin-out diagrams. Perhaps one of us will be able to spot what's not right.
Ciao,
Lenny

[Burgerman]

I suspect the script hasn't been configured with correct input numbers etc.

[sepos]

in scripting page, is it enough just to press "down load to device" after changes made, or is there something more to do?

script is pretty much unchanged (only voltage values have been down graded to match my 24v set up):

'***************************************************************************************************************
'***************************************************************************************************************

' USER SETTINGS BELOW

'***************************************************************************************************************
'***************************************************************************************************************

'====================================
'NEW USER PARAMETERS ADDED 2014_08_20

SpeedPotPin = 5 'analog input pin used for SpeedPot
LeftCurrentSensorPin = 8 'analog input pin
RightCurrentSensorPin = 7 'analog input pin
AlarmPin = 6 'digital output pin used for low voltage alarm
LeftSensorZero = 2355 'millivolts SET THESE TO CENTER VALUE FOUND WITH Roborun CALIBRATION
RightSensorZero = 2364 'millivolts SET THESE TO CENTER VALUE FOUND WITH Roborun CALIBRATION
AccelMotorComp = 0 'adjust accel & decel for motor compensation 0 = no effect,
DecelMotorComp = 0 'but I have no idea of how sensitive this parameter will prove to be
'20 makes a noticeable difference in initial acceleration in bench test

'====================================

SimulateMotors = FALSE 'change to FALSE when controller is present

' DRIVING CHARACTERISTICS
'the following override the settings in the Roboteq configuration
'will be removed if we figure out how to use GetConfig (_MAC) and GetConfig (_MDEC)
M1Accel = 1700
M2Accel = 1700
M1Decel = 2100
M2Decel = 2100
'mixing of acceleraton and deceleration
AccelSteerMixWeight = 500 '0 = no effect of M1-M2 motor power on accel/decl, 100 = full effect
'if 100 is not enough, it's OK to try values > 100
DecelSteerMixWeight = 700 '0 = no effect of M1-M2 motor power on accel/decl, 100 = full effect
AccelMixMode = 2 '1 = accel/decel < 0 truncated; 2 = accel/decel < 0 added to other wheel

'if 100 is not enough, it's OK to try values > 100
DecelBoost = 140 'percent of added deceleration to use if Throttle crosses 0.
'effect of this is proportional to how far past 0 the stick is moved.
SpeedPotInstalled = FALSE 'Is speed potentiometer installed?
SpeedPot = 100 'default if bSpeedPotInstalled = FALSE; 90 allows some headroom for steer/mixing
PotReverseWeight = 70 '0=no effect of SpeedPot on reverse Throttle, 100=full effect of SpeedPot on reverse
'Throttle, 50=half as much effect of SpeedPot on reverse Throttle
PotTurnWeight = 70 '0=no effect of SpeedPot on turn rates, 100=full effect of SpeedPot on turn rates,
PotReverseTurnWeight = 70 '50=half as much effect of SpeedPot on turn rates
ReverseScaling = 26 'REVERSE MAX SPEED = 33% of 90% SpeedPot = 30%. Safe reverse at 22 to 28.
ForwardTurnScaling = 19 'FORWARD MAX TURN RATE = 33% of 90% SpeedPot = 30%. 18 seems about right with 45V.
ReverseTurnScaling = 19 'REVERSE MAX TURN RATE = 33% of 90% SpeedPot = 30%. 18 seems about right with 45V.
TurnAtFullSpeed = 100 '100=no reduction of turn rate with speed, 0=turn rate goes to 0 at full speed
MotorResistance = 100 'MOTOR COMPENSATION. (SETTING THIS TOO HIGH IS DANGEROUS)
'Set to less than motor mohms and then adjust based on chair response
UseCurrentSensors = TRUE 'Set to TRUE if using external current sensors on analog inputs 7 & 8
'Set to FALSE to use Roboteq's internal motor current estimates
'parameters added to allow motor compensation boost at low estimated motor current; irrelevant if
'equipped with motor current sensor
BoostStart = 5 'no boost below this to avoid drift at small or no joystick movements
BoostEnd = 500 'safety limit - make sure there's no boost at 50% or more stick throw
MaxBoostFactor = 0 'increase MotorCompensation by this factor at low currents; 0 = no boost
BoostEndCurrent = 100 'taper boost to zero when this value of motor current (10X amps, e.g. 60 = 6 Amps)
'is reached
' PROGRAM TIMING
MainLoopWaitTime = 0 'milliseconds to wait for each cycle through MainLoop: set to 0 for max loop speed
CyclesPerSpeedPotRead = 200/(MainLoopWaitTime+1)'number of cycles between each read of pot
'reduce number of cycles if there is a wait time in main loop
TimeBetweenAmpHrReads = 1000 '1000 mSec = 1 second - time interval between checking current draw
TimeBetweenAmpHrOutputs = 10000 '10000 msec = 10 seconds - time interval for sending current used to display
'device
' CHARACTERISTICS OF SPEED POT
PotMin = 15 'speed scaling at lowest pot setting
SpeedPotLowFault = 30 'chair speed used if pot fails giving too low voltage
SpeedPotHighFault = 60 'chair speed used if pot fails giving too high voltage

' MISCELLANEOUS
SuppressPrinting = TRUE 'Set to TRUE to suppress printing to speed and smooth controller/PC
'interaction; PRINT of current used will not be suppressed, but is sent only
'once every vTimeBetweenAmpHrOutputs msec
AllowSerialInput = FALSE 'Set to TRUE if using serial joystick or emulation
FullRechargeVoltage = 271 'ten times battery voltage; 44.9V = 3.45V/cell - voltage present only
'immediately after recharging -- used to reset AmpHrs-used measurement to 0
LowVoltsAlarm = 140 'LENNY tenths of volts, 410 = 3.14V/cell for 13s pack
NoLoadCurrent = 30 'current with no motors running (20 = 2 Amps) YOU SHOULD CHECK THIS ON YOUR CHAIR AND
'SET THE VALUE JUST OVER WHAT YOU MEASURE
NoVoltReads = 50 'no. of times to read quiescent volts before averaging

[sepos]

roboteq BM3 ProfileSepon20150502.xml.zip

(38.97 KiB) Downloaded 235 times

here is the profile. basically changed voltage limits and calibrated joystick.

[LROBBINS]

in scripting page, is it enough just to press "down load to device" after changes made, or is there something more to do?

Yes, there is more to do:
(1) downloading stops script executions, so you have to run or restart the downloaded script - buttons near the top of Roborun+.
(2) changes made to the script in Roborun are not automatically saved to your PC. Unless you do so, the next time you open the file it will not have the changes.

If you actually attach your script, I can put it on my controller and see what happens. In your profile, I do not understand the purpose(s) of the DIN pins to which you've given names. What "brake" signal are you intending to READ? A speed pot is an analog device (you have AIn5 set to that) , so what is connected to the DIN labelled speed pot? RC signals are pulse, and though connected to the same pins as DIN 1 & 2, those pins have to be read as pulse inputs not digital inputs, but you have nothing set under pulse inputs.

Have you very carefully checked that things are actually connected to the intended pins in the DB25 and/or DB9 connectors? The physical pin numbers and software pin numbers are quite different. Also, it's easy to mentally turn around the diagrams of the connectors and the connectors themselves. The connectors actually have numbers embossed in them - you may need a magnifying glass and a strong light to see them, but do check your wiring with those numbers and not the diagram in the manual or on-screen pinout diagrams. I have more than once mirror-connected a DB plug!

Ciao,
Lenny

Ciao,
Lenny

[sepos]

Roboteq Script Ver. 3.3.sepon.mbs.zip

(33.28 KiB) Downloaded 157 times

Those namings are from Burgermans original script. I don't use digital inputs. I don't have speedpot either

I have only connected only:
- breaks pin18
- 5v pin 14

- MOSF pin 6

for current sensors
- sens L pin 23
- sens R pin10
- 5v pin 14
- GND pin 9

for joystick
- GND pin 13
- 5v pin25
- throt pin 17
- steer pin 22

[Burgerman]

And which two ANALOG inputs you are using for sensor inputs.
And voltage alarm.
And speedpot input. Which you do need if only to configure it correctly later.

Code: Select all

SpeedPotPin = 5            'analog input pin used for SpeedPot (5)
LeftCurrentSensorPin = 7   'analog input pin (7)
RightCurrentSensorPin = 8  'analog input pin (8)   
AlarmPin = 6               'digital output pin used for low voltage alarm (6)


I have only connected only:
- breaks pin18
DOES IT WORK? IS IT CONFIGURED CORRECTLY? ARE YOU USING A SSR? VIA 5V FROM ROBOTEQ? IS BRAKE IT POWERED BY AN INVERTER OR DIRECTLY FROM BATTERY?

- MOSF pin 6
DOES IT WORK? TEST BY REVERSING POLARITY IN SETUP. DOES IT SWITCH A CONTACTOR VIA AN SSR?

for current sensors
- sens L pin 23
- sens R pin10
- 5v pin 14
- GND pin 9

ARE THESE CONFIGURED FOR ANALOG INPUT AND CAN YOU SEE THE 2.5 APPROX VOLTAGE?

for joystick
- GND pin 13
- 5v pin25
- throt pin 17
- steer pin 22

AGAIN DO THESE WORK AND ARE CONFIGURED CORRECTLY WHEN SCRIPT IS NOT RUNNING?

[sepos]

comments in green

And which two ANALOG inputs you are using for sensor inputs.
And voltage alarm.
And speedpot input. Which you do need if only to configure it correctly later.

Code: Select all

SpeedPotPin = 5            'analog input pin used for SpeedPot (5)
LeftCurrentSensorPin = 7   'analog input pin (7)
RightCurrentSensorPin = 8  'analog input pin (8)   
AlarmPin = 6               'digital output pin used for low voltage alarm (6)


these "pins" in comments refer to analog inputs so "pin" (7) is actually physical pin10. Is that right?

I have only connected only:
- breaks pin18
DOES IT WORK? IS IT CONFIGURED CORRECTLY? ARE YOU USING A SSR? VIA 5V FROM ROBOTEQ? IS BRAKE IT POWERED BY AN INVERTER OR DIRECTLY FROM BATTERY?
break works, it is also visible in digital outputs on computer, light is green as soon as wheels start moving. SSR yes, 5V from roboteq there. breaks powered by 12v inverter.

- MOSF pin 6
DOES IT WORK? TEST BY REVERSING POLARITY IN SETUP. DOES IT SWITCH A CONTACTOR VIA AN SSR?
not yet, will assemble it as soon as other parts work


for current sensors
- sens L pin 23 ANA8
- sens R pin10 ANA7

- 5v pin 14
- GND pin 9

ARE THESE CONFIGURED FOR ANALOG INPUT AND CAN YOU SEE THE 2.5 APPROX VOLTAGE?
I can see 2.5V if I measure from pin23 and pin9 or pin10 and pin9. in program it only shows figure close to zero as discussed earlier. analog input references above.


for joystick
- GND pin 13
- 5v pin25
- throt pin 17
- steer pin 22

AGAIN DO THESE WORK AND ARE CONFIGURED CORRECTLY WHEN SCRIPT IS NOT RUNNING?
I can see impact in "run screen" of program, values are changing as expected in analog inputs. effects to motors are not what I would expect. wheels are rotating forward if joystick is moved forward or backwards
when scrtipt is not running values are changing, but nothing happens for motors

[Burgerman]

It refers to the inputs. Should not say pin really...
So the script says pin 5 for e.g. meaning analog input 5 in the roboteq setup. Actual connection solder pin number is displayed in the graphic diagram in the roborun software.

Code: Select all

- sens L pin 23 ANA8
- sens R pin 10 ANA7

So in your case the script needs to be changed to read 8 and 7. And the DIRECTION needs to be correct. As well as keeping left/right correct. And then test it to be sure it IS correct. 3 ways to get this wrong!

And choose FALSE on the speed pot fitted option.
OR I don't know what it will do. But seriously, you need one! Get a 5 or 10k pot, and a couple of resistors.

[sepos]

script says:
LeftCurrentSensorPin = 8 'analog input pin
RightCurrentSensorPin = 7 'analog input pin

so isn't that correct?

I also have speed pot set to false.

need to figure out what to do with directions. I think I messed those up, while trying to get this to work.

as actual sensor is bi directional, does it matter which way it is set?

[Burgerman]

Yes! It measures Amps, and allows a algorithm to ADD more. (Via pulse width) as a positive feedback. This is why setting Motor Compensation is critical. Set too high, it adds more, sees more, adds more etc and you get a full power runaway.

Set too low it doesn't add enough. So a chair that has a small turn signal (to turn slowly) doesn't generate adequate torque and does not move...

Set in reverse it will REDUCE torque on one motor or both motors.
Set to wrong motor and it adds torque to the wrong wheel...

LeftCurrentSensorPin = 8 'analog input pin
RightCurrentSensorPin = 7 'analog input pin

is correct IF those are the correct two inputs that YOU are using, and if correct "polarity" and L R correct way around.

[LROBBINS]

But he's reading near 0 mV on the two analog inputs, but correct ca. 2500 mV at the DB25. No use worrying about reversed sensing or motors crossed - he's not actually reading the sensors where he thinks he is. I suspect that they are not connected to the correct pins in the plug.
Ciao,
Lenny

[Burgerman]

when pushing joystick forward, I can see the impact in roboteq graphs, but wheels are not moving. joystick seem to be properly caliblated, signal is reaching roboteq, but roboteq is not passing right impulse to motors.
steering left or right seem to be working as expected, so wheels and roboteq work in sync.

AND I suspect that the throttle channel is connected to a wrong pin. Or wrong options selected in analog input settings. And steer channel is correct. By mistake?


OR wrong mix algo selected in roboteq setup...

But he's reading near 0 mV on the two analog inputs, but correct ca. 2500 mV at the DB25. No use worrying about reversed sensing or motors crossed - he's not actually reading the sensors where he thinks he is. I suspect that they are not connected to the correct pins in the plug.
Ciao,
Lenny

Well he needs to worry about this as well!
Its all but impossible to diagnose these errors on a forum without seeing and measuring in person.

[sepos]

sensors giving right figures to roboteq now.

current issue is motor cabling I think. I have tried quite many combinations, but decided to as a hint before continuing.

channel1 white cable -> right sensor -> blue cable to right engine
green cable -> direct through-> red cable to right engine
channel2 white cable -> left sensor -> blue cable to left engine
green cable -> direct through-> red cable to left engine

any logical mismatch in this?

when turning right wheel moving faster than left and rotation directions are opposite than expected
when going forward wheel don't really rotate at all same when reversing.

[Burgerman]

Its all but impossible to diagnose these errors on a forum without seeing and measuring in person.

Colour of motor wires is arbitrary. Pretend they are all black. Ignore colour.

You want to do this.
Stick forwards, swap motor wires until both rotate forwards... No script running,. and then WITH script running.

If they do not and one goes in reverse then swap that motor wire.

If nothing happens then:

Then you may have:
Incorrect Roboteq settings in many possible ways.
Including joystick inputs back to front. Or in need of reversing.
Incorrect wiring in joystick connections.

>>> when turning right wheel moving faster than left and rotation directions are opposite than expected
Swap joystick sense.
Incorrect settings in script.

Until all of this is correct you cannot know if sensors are the correct way around either.

[sepos]

I rised priority of analog input into 1. Now it is not as irrational as before. Also changed conversion type to Absolute.

with script only right wheel rotates really slowly into correct direction when pushing joystick forward. left wheel is not moving. backwards no action. moving joystick left or right both wheels working nicely into correct directions.

[Burgerman]

>>>I rised priority of analog input into 1. Now it is not as irrational as before. Also changed conversion type to Absolute.

You do not want absolute...

How did you raise priority?
It should be:
RS232
PULSE
ANALOG

WATCHDOG 500ms

SET Everything as per my profile, and simply transfer the RC pulse, J/S and Sensors inputs, speed pot input, to whichever ones you are using... And outputs (Status, MOSFET, volts) to whatever outputs you are using. But keep all the settings the same! Only adjust CALIBRATION to suit your sensors, RC, etc.

[sepos]

configuration set with your profile. only calibrated joystick (added +5% in to max value and decreased 5% from min value) and sensors.

no script running and moving joystick, only values in throt and steer analog inputs are changing. no wheel movement what so ever. brakes seem to work as expected.

same thing if script is running

[Burgerman]

HOW are you powering this Roboteq ON?

Do the graphs work, can you see input and output?

Did you copy all my MOTOR settings too?
Check battery upper/lower limits as I am using 45V...


I JUST LOOKED. SEt under voltage limit to 14V on yours. Its currently set to 30 volts. It thinks your battery is flat.