Battery ADD on pack - First Attempt -

[LROBBINS]

That defective crimper probably is missing an 0-ring or has it's 0-ring installed improperly. Return it and just get another - it's the right tool for this purpose. If you find it too heavy to work with (it IS heavy, but that's why it works well), you can clamp one handle to your work surface or in a vice and just work the other one and the rotary valve.
Ciao,
Lenny

[flagman1776]

The wire stripper / crimper
http://www.delcity.net/store/Economical ... HwodnOALVg
is a common plier type hand tool. Everybody who does electrical work needs at least one. It is primarily a wire stripper & secondarily a crimper only useful for small wires.

I would not buy the
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Crimp-Tool-No ... op?ie=UTF8
I don't know if the compound leverage is sufficient but what makes me say NO is the way it appears to work by "denting" the round terminal ferrule on one side. Rather than compressing all around.

When I made up my Anderson 50s I found a close fitting contact & soldered it. Crimping might have helped hold it in place while I soldered but I used a clamp on vise to hold the end of the fitting & got it done. My clamp on vise is old but they are still made. Here's a few:
http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half ... 97160.html
http://www.amazon.com/Yost-COV-3-Clamp- ... mp+on+vise
http://www.amazon.com/Pro-Grade-59109-3 ... mp+on+vise
http://www.amazon.com/Stalwart-Portable ... mp+on+vise

[expresso]

http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools ... imper.html.

This is made for the SB 50

maybe best bet to be safe ?

[Scollard]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0151K ... _pC_nS_ttl

This is similar to what I use. It won't strip larger than 10 AWG. So it won't do your 8 AWG. I use a box cutter at this point. I also have one like this:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JNNWQ2

You need the tonnage the hydraulic crimper provides to properly crimp the anderson connectors. Your best bet will probably be to go to an auto shop or a car stereo installation place and see if they can crimp them for you. Chances are good they have the tool. Alternatively, you can probably rent one from a tool rental place for a couple of bucks a day.

[Scollard]

http://www.powerwerx.com/crimping-tools/pp75-sb50-powerpole-crimper.html.

This is made for the SB 50

maybe best bet to be safe ?

Unless you have forearms like Arnold Schwarzenegger in the 80s, hydraulic is what you really want.

[expresso]

Ok - thanks for those links - i called the place i just posted the link too and the crimper is not good because its short handles will make it hard and need alot of force -

didnt think this would be so complicated to get a crimper so many kinds - and i dont want to make a mistake again to return it - starting to think i should have to just got them made for the cost of less than buying a crimper -

i have no room to hold large tools really - maybe i should double check the crimper i have here before i return it - maybe i did something wrong - and didnt realize it -

[expresso]

You now - i doubled checked the crimper i have and it works - i think its working - fine - but now i am worried about the Oil that leaked out already -

i rather keep it if its working and not bother with returning at all -


http://www.ebay.com/itm/271428288415?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT

I have this one - when i turned the know on the side open - Oil leaked out - maybe i opened it too much - - i doubled checked it - and it closes the dies together - as i use the handle and turn the knob open to release them -

so i am guessing it works - should i worry about the Oil that came out already or just use it as long as it works i guess - ?

[Burgerman]

It will be fine. Just figure it out and give it a good clean with some degreaser, or cloth with white spirit or something. The thing should be super clean. Don't take the release screw right out...

[Burgerman]

You have to use your imagination.
When you think about getting 72 cells (2x 6x6 blocks) you don't have to restrict yourself to square or oblong.

If I move things to an odd shape, I can get 120Ah or 80 cells in my own chair. The orange blocks can be built in lots of layouts. Some of my cells are 280mm or 7 cells tall, and they go up under the seat tray. But some come forwards where there is room.

This pack below is actually two packs, and both are pushed together here so looks like one big one. Each is a different shape, and has a different number of cells. But total is 80 Cells or 8x 12Ah cells per group.

[expresso]

It will be fine. Just figure it out and give it a good clean with some degreaser, or cloth with white spirit or something. The thing should be super clean. Don't take the release screw right out...

i learned that the hard way - but glad its working - it is easy to use - not alot of force itself - but the item feels like a ton in my hands - i dont have to worry about trying to exchange it then ? even though some Oil came out ?

my battery box is tricky - and very tight - on top - where the posts are - the battery tray itself is like a fitted glove to the batteries - i will try it for sure - i have to see for myself if i can fit 6 Cells high - and still able to slide it in and close it -

also the length with the blocks in place may be just a bit too tight - i just checked near a loose battery i have here - not in the chair yet -

Glad this crimper thing should be good to go -

[Burgerman]

Look here. No way this will slide in and out any longer. It drops in the top. Then the seat replaced.

download/file.php?id=4215&mode=view

[expresso]

Very nice - thats custom perfect work - works 99% only if you do custom packs - with a custom chair -

when you have to deal with stock frame and chairs etc. - you are limited - not easy to work in tight spaces - etc, - and for most part - its only a problem if you want to do things to it - like the battery pack - wires etc, -

nice work - i vision my work the same way - but only in my dreams

[Scollard]

Very nice - thats custom perfect work - works 99% only if you do custom packs - with a custom chair -

when you have to deal with stock frame and chairs etc. - you are limited - not easy to work in tight spaces - etc, - and for most part - its only a problem if you want to do things to it - like the battery pack - wires etc, -

nice work - i vision my work the same way - but only in my dreams

The size of a group 24 battery is a finite quantity. A 6x6 pack of 12Ah cells is smaller in size than a group 24 battery. End of story. Now if the chair manufacturer did not actually make room for any group 24 battery, it's possible that only certain undersized group 24 batteries would fit. If that is the case you can just build yourself a group 34 sized battery and only go 5 cells high. A group 34 will still have more Ah than your group 24 and even more usable Ah.

[Burgerman]

5 tall x 2x 6 long = 7.5 cells???

So you end up with an even smaller battery. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/convert ... ithium.htm

84Ah. Only 11 better than lead. Yes it will take you about 2x as far, but wear faster, and not as good. Better to get two sets of 6x6 in So 108Ah. Or in my case with some care, 120Ah.

2x the range, 3x the range, or 4x the range...

[shirley_hkg]

It's all marked up.

Balance leads are screwed on as numbered ; 01 ---- 08 .

BMS has only =/- for battery terminals.

Very nicely done Shirley. Oh, the picture didn't come through!
I take it balance wire 01 goes on the POSITIVE.

NO.
Skip battery neg,

01---3.3V
02---6.6V
03---9.9V
04----13V
05----17V
06----20V
07----23V
08----26V.

Also tap and see full picture below ---

[Burgerman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TnfKmNRfLYU

There may be TROUBLE ahead,
But while there's moonlight and music and love and romance,
Let's face the music and dance.


Songwriters: IRVING BERLIN

[flagman1776]

It's all marked up.

Balance leads are screwed on as numbered ; 01 ---- 08 .

BMS has only =/- for battery terminals.

Very nicely done Shirley. Oh, the picture didn't come through!
I take it balance wire 01 goes on the POSITIVE.

NO.
Skip battery neg,

01---3.3V
02---6.6V
03---9.9V
04----13V
05----17V
06----20V
07----23V
08----26V.

Also tap and see full picture below ---

I thought I could help expresso but I'm confused. I can't figure out the attachment. I don't know how to do this with 8 balance leads. My packs with BMS came with 9 balance wires. Rather than screw something up, I have to step asside.
Sorry

[Scollard]

I thought I could help expresso but I'm confused. I can't figure out the attachment. I don't know how to do this with 8 balance leads. My packs with BMS came with 9 balance wires. Rather than screw something up, I have to step asside.
Sorry

Expresso, it's not a problem, I fully understand what is going on. As soon as you're ready to start let me know and I will take you through the process step by step.

[Scollard]

5 tall x 2x 6 long = 7.5 cells???

So you end up with an even smaller battery. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/convert ... ithium.htm

84Ah. Only 11 better than lead. Yes it will take you about 2x as far, but wear faster, and not as good. Better to get two sets of 6x6 in So 108Ah. Or in my case with some care, 120Ah.

2x the range, 3x the range, or 4x the range...

No 7 cells, exactly like you describe on your webpage: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/convert ... ithium.htm

But if you had the width for the 15Ah cells, then you could build a 105Ah battery that would be the equivalent of the group 24 but only be 5 cells tall.

[expresso]

I thought I could help expresso but I'm confused. I can't figure out the attachment. I don't know how to do this with 8 balance leads. My packs with BMS came with 9 balance wires. Rather than screw something up, I have to step asside.
Sorry

Expresso, it's not a problem, I fully understand what is going on. As soon as you're ready to start let me know and I will take you through the process step by step.

Ok - i havnt received the BMS yet or the other Cells - when i do - i will post back for help in connecting it - i want to thank everyone who is trying to help me - i am sure it will be done once i get all the parts in front of me -

i dont know how the whole chair setup will work - i thought about the 15ah Cells also - and i can fit those but in a different way - i have to see - i cant say for sure till i get the rest and put the orange blocks together as if i was making a 12V battery and put that in my tray - i will remove my battery and replace with the orange blocks - will try 6 Cells high by 6 Cells across -

if that fits and i can slide it in and close it - i should be fine - if not - i have to decide - if i can remove the Tray and then lay a flat board on the bottom in place of the tray - if that works - or if i have to go just 5 high - i can say just yet - till it really try it - but from the looks of it - when i slide the tray out the back - the top posts are right there - no extra room past them -

i will take pictures when i do that and post them - just waiting till i get the rest of the Cells and Blocks - i dont have enough blocks now - and i dont want to snap them together for real - so it may be off just a bit - have to compensate for that - i will duck tape them best way to see if its do able or a issue - i really want to make sure - before i even think about the whole chair - this ADD ON is first - and if it works out good - then whole chair - and that will be without the BMS if i get that far -

i may be fine with just the ADD ON - or maybe add another 8 Cells to make 36Ah extra - which should be enough to keep me going all day easily

[expresso]

5 tall x 2x 6 long = 7.5 cells???

So you end up with an even smaller battery. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/convert ... ithium.htm

84Ah. Only 11 better than lead. Yes it will take you about 2x as far, but wear faster, and not as good. Better to get two sets of 6x6 in So 108Ah. Or in my case with some care, 120Ah.

2x the range, 3x the range, or 4x the range...

No 7 cells, exactly like you describe on your webpage: http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/convert ... ithium.htm

But if you had the width for the 15Ah cells, then you could build a 105Ah battery that would be the equivalent of the group 24 but only be 5 cells tall.

now that sounds good - i can do 5 Cells high easy - - but side by side is another issue i think -

[expresso]

Very nice - thats custom perfect work - works 99% only if you do custom packs - with a custom chair -

when you have to deal with stock frame and chairs etc. - you are limited - not easy to work in tight spaces - etc, - and for most part - its only a problem if you want to do things to it - like the battery pack - wires etc, -

nice work - i vision my work the same way - but only in my dreams

The size of a group 24 battery is a finite quantity. A 6x6 pack of 12Ah cells is smaller in size than a group 24 battery. End of story. Now if the chair manufacturer did not actually make room for any group 24 battery, it's possible that only certain undersized group 24 batteries would fit. If that is the case you can just build yourself a group 34 sized battery and only go 5 cells high. A group 34 will still have more Ah than your group 24 and even more usable Ah.

this is the chair if i do in the future - after this ADD ON - i want to check this chair once i get the rest of my orange Blocks in - to make sure it will really fit - its a tight fit on the top - dont get fooled by the pictures - looks more spacious than it really is -

[expresso]

one more


this is the chair i Could NOT FIT the PC 1500 batteries in - i had to force them in my other chair P222 se - which it didnt fit either - but i force it down in the case - the ADD ON will go on the P222 se chair first - with the ADD ON - i can always take the backpack off the P222se and try it on this chair also - 646se - just to get a feel between both chairs - -

i would have to make another cable for the 646se if i decide to do that since my direct cable on that chair is actually in the front under my seat - theres no opening in the rear so i snaked it out the front - for fast charging -

if i did the whole chair - i would look into a different spot to run the cable for charging - -

[Scollard]

this is the chair if i do in the future - after this ADD ON - i want to check this chair once i get the rest of my orange Blocks in - to make sure it will really fit - its a tight fit on the top - dont get fooled by the pictures - looks more spacious than it really is -

Looking at your pictures you can easily fit a 6p8s pack made from 15Ah cells and have plenty of room above the battery. This would give you 90Ah. A little more than the 84Ah from two 7p4s group 34 packs made from the 12 Ah cells.

Six wide is 258 mm, 1 mm narrower than the MK battery. Eight deep is 344 mm which is 2 mm narrower than 2 MK batteries. And the height of a 15Ah cell is approximately 186 mm which is at least 20 mm shorter than the MK battery. Lots of room.

[Burgerman]

Yes they can go that way up too.

And as mentioned, may be an odd shape, or split into other locations if you need say 2 more cells, under a seat or something. There are many ways but you might need to get creative!

[shirley_hkg]

I HAD ONE BEFORE .

$800.00 nearly brand new from ebay.

[Burgerman]

Very nice - thats custom perfect work - works 99% only if you do custom packs - with a custom chair -

Next tool: http://www.coptool.com/new-milwaukee-m1 ... 2625-21ct/

[expresso]

this is the chair if i do in the future - after this ADD ON - i want to check this chair once i get the rest of my orange Blocks in - to make sure it will really fit - its a tight fit on the top - dont get fooled by the pictures - looks more spacious than it really is -

Looking at your pictures you can easily fit a 6p8s pack made from 15Ah cells and have plenty of room above the battery. This would give you 90Ah. A little more than the 84Ah from two 7p4s group 34 packs made from the 12 Ah cells.

Six wide is 258 mm, 1 mm narrower than the MK battery. Eight deep is 344 mm which is 2 mm narrower than 2 MK batteries. And the height of a 15Ah cell is approximately 186 mm which is at least 20 mm shorter than the MK battery. Lots of room.

Thats good to know - As long as i can make it fit in the box as it is - i cant get into modifing the chair or anything crazy to make one or two cells fit in a strange angle etc, - how many 15Ah cells would i need to make it work as compared to the 12ah

would the lay out be the same as the lay out for the 12ah cells - just less cells for the 15Ah ?



Yeah thats my chair Shirley - i just got that one last year - i like it - fast and smooth - soft ride compared to my P222se - great price - did it have tilt or anything else power - 8.5 motors ?

[Scollard]

Thats good to know - As long as i can make it fit in the box as it is - i cant get into modifing the chair or anything crazy to make one or two cells fit in a strange angle etc, - how many 15Ah cells would i need to make it work as compared to the 12ah

would the lay out be the same as the lay out for the 12ah cells - just less cells for the 15Ah ?

Yeah thats my chair Shirley - i just got that one last year - i like it - fast and smooth - soft ride compared to my P222se - great price - did it have tilt or anything else power - 8.5 motors ?

You would need 48 cells. The layout would be different than building 2 group 24 or group 34 batteries from 12Ah cells. Although you could build an identical battery with the 12Ah cells if you wanted to save some money at the expense of giving up capacity, 72Ah vs 90Ah with the 15Ah cells. The battery would just be 6 cells wide by 8 cells deep. It would slide in with the cells vertical instead of horizontal like all of BM's batteries so far. All you would have to do is put some rubber down in the bottom of the battery box. Something stiff, like a mud flap or conveyor belt material, and slide your battery in, easy peasy.

[expresso]

that dosnt sound bad - and the fit may be better - if i understand correctly - the Cells would be standing up 6 Wide x 8 Deep all Standing - one big pack ? i was hoping to fit them all in the current battery tray that slides out - that would be nice to keep it from moving around maybe - but worst case - i can do like you said - something flat on the bottom - maybe like a thick sheet of Rubber Mat -

sounds good - with another peaice in the front so it wont touch the frame of the chair -

price wise - at that point - i guess its not a big difference - might as well get the most you can out of it - 90ah dosnt sound too bad - and i wont have any height issues i think - have to keep this in Mind -

you would know how to Draw this out for a visual if the time comes and the 15ah may be used ? i am so used to seeing these packs - which show how its done very well - if the 12ah - 108ah pack wont work - then the next best way is the 15ah and get 90ah - not too much less

cost will be about the same if i use 72 cells 12ah - or the 15ah - less Cells but higher cost so about the same in the end - this project i wont start yet - at least till i figure out the space i have and need and after i do this ADD On -

as you can see - i need my hand held to do these type of things - as bad as it sounds - not going to make believe i get it if i dont - with the right help i can do it safely - thanks - this is another option i didnt think i had before