S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[Burgerman]

Opps my mistake - i went too much - its too wide - it will be one roll down the sides and then double rolls in the middle - should have been 3 double rolls in the middle - and one roll each side - making 8 rolls -

Rolls? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rolls ... =610&dpr=2

[Scollard]

this is how i will make the TOP - its upside down - as if it were the bottom - the top would be flipped over with the feet facing up -

That looks correct, but you have an extra row of orange blocks. You have it 10 wide but you only need 8 rows. Remove one row of 6 blocks.

The weight of a 6x8 cell pack will be approximately the weight of a single group 27 lead battery. Tiny bit heaver that a group 24.

[expresso]

i keep making those mistakes - not the greatest speller here - Rows - i mean -

and in two parts - that nice - but the way i am building it - it has to be one big pack - i wont be lifting it thats for sure - two parts or 3 - - and not much heavier than just ONE LEAD -

two people - one on each end should be fine - - and i hope to not have to remove this once its all done and in the chair - unlike the ADD ON - i did that over 4 times !!! - now its done - and this i want to be done the first time - not looking to redo this 4 times

[expresso]

Opps my mistake - i went too much - its too wide - it will be one roll down the sides and then double rolls in the middle - should have been 3 double rolls in the middle - and one roll each side - making 8 rolls -

Rolls? https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=rolls ... =610&dpr=2

yes making me hungry now and i just ate -

[Scollard]

BM has put together a lot more of these packs. how do you recommend putting the orange blocks together.

Would you make a row of 6 horizontal blocks, then make a 2nd row of 6, then put the two rows together?

Or.

Make a row of 6 horizontal blocks, then make the 2nd row by adding them 1 at a time to the initial row?

Or would you make the top connector blocks directly on top of the cells that are already placed in the bottom one at a time. I know I had a hell of a time putting on my 4x7 top block and I wondered if it would have been better to build it one at a time directly on top the the cells.

[expresso]

it would have been two packs - just like LEAD - 2 12 volts pack and connected - but i didnt feel it was going to work out that way - just very tight and i need room to work with the wires etc, - and with my divider - i tested it first with the 12ah cells - 72 of them - i didnt like how it was going to end up - the orange blocks were scrapping the underside of my divider - it was just tight and i didnt want to go down that road - it was stressing me out to figure out how to force the divider up higher - i just cant - i have very little wiggle room to do that - which i will do now - but that still wasnt enough for me to feel good about making it with the 12ah cells -

and then Scollard jumped in and offered me another way that i wasnt thinking of - once i though about it this other way - i found this way to be 100% for sure i can make it happen - even if i only end up with 90ah in the end - i know thats for sure after doing the math and all the cells fit in the original battery tray - thats great - thats what i wanted - simple - take out LEAD - drop this in - same tray -

i guess between Shirley and Scollard - they both played a major role here - you BM of course always helping -

Shirley got me started because he got me the BMS which made me feel good since i didnt know nothing at all - not that i do now - but i wasnt going to go all in - so i went with the BMS - since then i decided to go all in and then didnt feel good about the 72 Cells 12ah -

then Scollard jumped in and that again gave me an extra boost of confidence and i started to check those figures out - that was and is the best easiest way to get this done with out having to do any thing major to the chair itself -

90ah pack - would have to do nothing at all - 105ah - i have to raise that divider up as much as i can and test it first -

you BM - always along the way tried to help me do things - even when i didnt listen and went left instead of right - everything was so new and strange to me - and you spoke to me as if i knew what you were talking about - haha -
i didnt - i didnt know what a XT connector is - or this and that etc, -

now i know - and i would be using the XT90 for this chair also - for the charge cables and the extra cable for ADD ON - if i want to add one later - i am just making the cable for it and connecting it to the pack - but may not be used -

the XT90 connector i tested it can be snaked under the frame and into the battery box from the top rear - so it should be out of sight - we see when i get there if it really works out that way -

i cant sleep without thinking of ways to do things and get around the bumps now - alot of times thats when i get the solution when i am in bed resting - it comes to me - or at least another way to tackle it and see -

[Burgerman]

Make a row of 6 horizontal blocks, then make the 2nd row by adding them 1 at a time to the initial row?

Thats impossible without damage and problems.

I have done about 6 of these and a couple of small hobby ones.

You need to make a full row, longways, and add it to the next full row. And over and over.

To make a side you do this first. Make as many full lines as you will need:
8
8
8
8
8
8
8
8

Then add another FULL row of these AT ONE TIME. Not one by one. Start at one end, and slot together just 2mm at a time and work along. Then on a flat desk gently tap down till its flat. If you do it right yu can do it with only fingers 90 percent of the time.
8 8
8 8
8 8
8 8
8 8
8 8
8 8
8 8

And again...
8 8 8
8 8 8
8 8 8
8 8 8
8 8 8
8 8 8
8 8 8
8 8 8

[expresso]

i was having a hard time doing it that way one full row at a time - i did two rows already - but one block at a time snapped it down all the way before adding another block

i will try it again your way with one long row - i cant trust this to be done by my workers - i can get it started at least and then they help me bang them down -

there is no gently tapping down here - too gentle it dosnt move at all - its more like banging them down here - as careful as can be but it requires more than a Tap - at least mines do - i may try a shot of silicone spray- just a mist and see how that works -

will leave it for tomorrow now -

[Scollard]

Ok Expresso, there you have it. Put 4 blocks together end-to-end so that you have 8 wide. Make an identical 2nd row. Then add the 2nd row to the first. Repeat until you have 6 rows. This will be the bottom.

For the top you only put 3 blocks together so you are 6 wide. Do this 6 times until you have a 6x6, then add the 3 blocks on either end to make the single row.

[expresso]

Ok Expresso, there you have it. Put 4 blocks together end-to-end so that you have 8 wide. Make an identical 2nd row. Then add the 2nd row to the first. Repeat until you have 6 rows. This will be the bottom.

For the top you only put 3 blocks together so you are 6 wide. Do this 6 times until you have a 6x6, then add the 3 blocks on either end to make the single row.

yes - this is the same layout as before the way you told me right ? like the pictures i sent - - its just a way to try to connect them - but the lay out is the same ?

just like the ADD ON -

[expresso]

another question - Once i remove the LEAD from my chair - i will leave it empty with nothing in there till i am done with this pack - is it OK To leave my chair with nothing connected to it - no batteries at all - for the time till i get the pack done -

lets say its stills empty for a month or two months - any problems with that ? once i connect battery power again - it should be just fine - work the same etc, programming ? all functions -

[Scollard]

Yes, just like the add-on.

Do you have a soft-blow hammer or a rubber mallet?

I used something like this to knock my blocks together.

http://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-30812-Doub ... 0NYN313_tt

Not an actually hammer.

[expresso]

yes i got a 3 hammer kit - for 10 dollars - has 3 sizes - rubber ends - i have used it - but sometimes i find the steel hammer - i have a smaller one - with a towel over the area - works because of the weight -

i will continue that tomorrow - i have 2 Rows connected - the bottom side i am doing first - i am going to give it a mist spray of silicone also - just to see if that helps


also - can i use the marine grade rings i have already with heatshrink on it for the wires to connect the top 8 Cells - ?

or should i use the Copper lugs i have - but they are 8 AWG - and i can use it - but with 12 AWG wire - its a big small - or i can double the wire end and use the copper lug

either one is ok ?

[Scollard]

The ring terminals for the balance wires are going to be too small. Or did you get some for 10-12 AWG wire? If not, you should get some marine terminals for the 10-12 AWG wire.

[expresso]

i have those for the balance wires - - the wires for the 8 Cells on top - if i end up using 12 AWG wire - i have more than enough of these

but i have to thicken the wire http://www.amazon.com/Install-Bay-Coppe ... ge_o04_s00

and these - for 12 - 10 awg also - http://www.amazon.com/Ring-Terminal-Mar ... ge_o07_s00

either one of these should be fine ?

[expresso]

The ring terminals for the balance wires are going to be too small. Or did you get some for 10-12 AWG wire? If not, you should get some marine terminals for the 10-12 AWG wire.

i have 12 AWG wire - enough to make the cables for the top 8 Cells - i have some 10 AWG also -

the lugs i have are for 8 AWG really - but i can make it work if i have to -

i also have the marine rings for all the balance wires - and also for the 10 and 12 AWG wires -

if i used the Marine rings - i can just crimp the wire and heatshrink it -

if i have to use the copper lugs for 8 AWG then i have to crimp and solder - -

if its ok to use the Marine rings - i may use those instead

[Scollard]

Yes, just use the marine rings for the 10-12 AWG wires. It will work just fine. You will need 4 long ones to run from the bottom of the pack and 5 short ones for the top. That means you will need a minimum of 18 ring terminals to add the 7th row on top.

[expresso]

oh - i didnt think that many wires from the top cells only -

ok i will check - i have to get more i think - will get the marine kind with heatshrink on it already - for 10 to 12 awg wire -

i have about 10 feet red and 10 black of 12 awg wire -

sorry 18 rings - just 9 wires

[expresso]

Ok i finally got the bottom made for the 90ah / 105ah pack -

I tried doing it your way BM - connect 4 blocks making one long row - and then adding to it - that was harder for me - and when i got most started - the very end one i couldnt get started - - i figured out what works for me best is this way
which may seem harder at first but it works - easier for me to handle one block at a time - rather than a whole row - the picture shows how i found it to work easier - the way i add the one block makes a difference also

i get one end started just a bit so it holds it - the other end is lifted up - then i use the hammer to tap it down and it grabs and works perfect that way - i then bang it down all the way - and do the next one - it may sound harder or more work for you - but for me - alot better - i still dont like making them - mines arrived different colors also - all orange some lighter and darker etc, - i figure its not the same batch when made - as long as it works i am good -

[expresso]

i arranged all the cells in correct order - i actually forget to test fit the orange blocks in the tray first before adding the cells - it fits - but wanted to see if any room down the sides for wiring - i really dont think there is - but when i do the top part of blocks - i can use that to check it in the tray - i checked it when i have 5 rows all snapped in place and just one row left and it fits like a glove - which is a bump in the road when i get there if doing the 105ah pack - if doing 90ah - its fine -

i got a rough measure of the total size as a 105ah - i get about 9 1/2 inches high - i will double check that once i get the top row in place - blocks on and then remeasure it - i feel if i can manage to raise my divider up a bit as i plan to try doing next week or once i get my friend to help me with that - i would have the pack connected by then and can Fit Test it - if it fits with 105ah - then i have to work on that Tray - maybe cut one side of the Lip to make room for the wiring -

[Burgerman]

I dont see how that can fit.

[expresso]

extra row on top if i can make it fit - i am not sure where i wire the top row to - when i am done making the 90ah pack - i will post a pic - Scollard - if you can use the pic i will post when done and draw lines to mark exactly where i would connect the top 8 cells to the 90ah pack - i want to be safe and do it correctly when connecting - i already know what can happen if connected wrong -

this is assuming 105ah is going to fit and i feel good about how it fits etc, - if not - then 90ah - and leave the tray alone -

[expresso]

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interesting how i just got this Email right when in am building my pack - trying to scare me off you think ?
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[expresso]

I dont see how that can fit.

what do you mean ? you mean the 105ah pack or the 90ah ?

[Burgerman]

I mean the one in the pics...

[expresso]

the 90ah pack fits perfect - in the battery tray - that way is the closest to plug and play as you can get i think - - i will start the top blocks and add them - connect the Cells on top - then wait for a friend to flip it over for me - connect the bottom cells - wait again to flip it back and in the tray - to test fit it - once i get the chair ready with the divided etc, -

[expresso]

I mean the one in the pics...

which pics - which cells are you referring too ? top 8 Cells for extra Row on top of the 90ah pack - ?

[Burgerman]

Dunno. How many are you making now?

[expresso]

ok these are 15ah cells - the perfect fit in the tray one big pack is 90ah - that will fit no problem - the extra 8 cells on top - if it fits in my chair space - then its 105ah - i am leaving that option open to try -

will have to work on my chair divider to raise it up a bit - i have an idea for it - i have to do that first - once i get the divider up most i can - then i will test fit the 90ah pack in the chair and slide the extra 8 on top - just to see if it fits in the chair before deciding which way to proceed -

if the 105ah pack fits - if i am comfortable how it fits - etc, - i can then try to add the top 8 Cells to make it 105ah - if i dont like how it fits in the chair - or it dosnt fit - or what ever - i go back to just the Tray 90ah - pack - thats 100% fit with ease - and room to work - which i like -

[Scollard]

Looking good. Now you just need to get the top on. That will probably be the most difficult.

I also put my blocks together either 1 or 2 at a time. I found that easier than an entire row.

When you put the battery in the chair will the negative row or the positive row be at the back of the chair?