S646se - Full LITHIUM Pack Project - First Attempt

[expresso]

i seen the chair your building - very nice - clean chair - bring it to the City - wont be so nice after a short while here - and you really need suspesion of some sort here in the city - the roads you travel are mostly smooth there ?

that chair you linked too - uses only 10ah of battery to run it - but at 48V ? gives 25 miles - dosnt sound right - speed is nice - would love that - i want to try GPS to see how fast i go with the full pack - i tried to change the settings in the Rnet program -

there is a speed setting - change the actually speed - and displayed speed - but its just numbers - i was not expecting it to make it faster by changing these settings - but i was hoping it would allow it to display the actually speed -

so with the lithium - if i am gaining a bit of speed - i wont see it on the joystick - i changed it to 10mph at first on both settings - and what that did was only show the numbers going higher when i am actually doing 4 or 5 mph it would show 8 mph
its not the actual speed -

either way - i will put both those settings back to 8.5 mph - i was hoping that it would display that actual speed of the chair - if it did 9 mph - i would hoping it would show 9 mph - if i changed the display setting to 10mph for example -

but it didnt work that way - so have to use a GPS on my phone

[Burgerman]

that chair you linked too - uses only 10ah of battery to run it - but at 48V ? gives 25 miles - dosnt sound right - speed is nice - would love that -

Its correct.
EG:

My 16mph chair is only 72Ah, at 45V.
Total energy storage then in kWh is 72 x 45 = 3240 watt hours MORE than my other chairs...

My green chair is slower has 120Ah at 25V.
So has 120 x 25 = 3000 watt hours

Your 105Ah 25V full pack chair has 105 x 25V = 2625 watt hours

Your addon pack has 36Ah x 25V = 900 watt hours
Your MK 73Ah batteries can only provide 40Ah before they stop. 24V X 40Ah = 960 watt hours

Your Addon + MK lead if healthy, combined can give 1860 watt hours

Does this make it clearer? Volts X (usable) Amp Hours = watt hours. That is directly comparable regardless of voltage/Ah as a measure of stored energy.

[Burgerman]

i seen the chair your building - very nice - clean chair - bring it to the City - wont be so nice after a short while here - and you really need suspesion of some sort here in the city - the roads you travel are mostly smooth there ?

Other way around. Bigger casters, bigger drive tyres run at lower pressures give a smooth ride where your chairs rattle around and bang you around. The ride in your chairs as seen on the vids would set muscle spasm problems off!

Watch the fast 10 inch caster tyre carefully. The large tyres do the same thing. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/10.wmv

[Burgerman]

Did you watch the vid?

And these are at 6 to 7 psi and do the same thing as the casters in the vid. With huge sidewalls. Soft. so they absorb edges. You can press them an inch with your finger like a ball.
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... /hegar.jpg

Basically you get this with big sidewalls and low pressures: (I cut the beginning to save time)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRMucnH ... u.be&t=177

[expresso]

yeah i see - how the tires make up the difference - - and the moving around in my video - that you cant help - if the roads are bad - they are bad thats it - it can be helped some with your type of tire maybe -
this chair 646 - is the most comfortable ride i have had in a wheelchair here in the city - it handles bumps great - small cracks etc, - how ever it may look in the video - it feels like a Cadillac of chairs - at least to me -
remember this is a stock Chair - nothing was done to it - i had a option for larger front casters on my chair with no fork suspension - - or my 8 x 2 casters with fork suspension -

my first chair with no fork suspension is not usable the way i ride - i opted for the 8x2 caster wheel with suspension - and does a great job on the sidewalk cracks etc, - yeah it will bounce as you ride some - unless you go slow - then i have the shocks on my chair now which work well - rear tires are softer material - everything about the 646 is much much better ride than the P222 models - thats a truck compared to the 646 -

i felt having the smaller casters with the fork suspension to be better than the larger 9 inch caster with no suspension - - i havnt tried the 9 inch wheel with nothing on it - but the 8 inch with nothing on it was too hard - the fork suspension is only a option with the 8 inch caster - cant get 9 inch with suspension also -

now unless i change my own tires - casters to your type - - then i can see if they hold up here in the city - but i dont see that happening - i am very pleased with this chair how it rides - handles - smoother Rnet - comfortable - was fast before but now maybe a bit more - and the battery - - thats the big one - GREAT so far -

there is one more thing - the chair when all the way down - the tilt part - it does sit too low in the front end sort of - in order for me to feel good leveled more and stable - and keep the foot plates off the ground - i keep the chair in a tilt position just a bit which raises the front end making it level - now in doing so - the tilt is not fully in the down position - which also make it a less harder ride since it absorbs some of the bumps also -

i know everyone who has a chair with tilt does the same thing - they all say the same thing - when its all the way down which is should be when riding - its just too low in the front and makes you feel like you are falling forward some -
and all keep it tilted a bit -

now the seat was done with 0 degrees - i figured that would keep it level when fully down - i guess it dosnt - maybe on the next chair - i may do a 3 degree angle - - maybe that may allow me to keep it down all the way and still sit level and not feel too forward in it - what i think that would do is lesson the bounce since the tilt will be in the fully down position -

my P222 chairs - are at 3 degree angle when fully down - so i sit good in them that way - when doing this new chair - different model - i wasnt so sure - - i choose 0 degrees which should have been fine - and its fine also - not a big deal at all

not complaining here - there are a few others on here with this model chair - i would like to hear what they say about it - how it feels to them etc, the ride - i seen someone has a silver one - i think snaker got one that hes working on - blue - i like those colors - i been black color for ever always - but next one i think Silver is it - my friend Quickiee2 has silver - very nice - its time for a new color next one -

[Burgerman]

Not sure what most of that meant.

However I have my seat at a good steep dump angle. See here download/file.php?id=4327&mode=view All my chairs are at the same angle as this.

[expresso]

Ok - i see - thats similar to how my P222 chair is - so when you sit in it - you dont feel like your falling forward -

on the order form for the chair - theres an option to pick your seat angle - o degree , 3 and 6 - i believe the P222 i have is at 3 degrees which is like your chair -

when i did the new chair 646 - its a new model frame layout so i figure 0 degree would keep me straight flat level seat - - i have tilt and seat lift - so i figured when the tilt is all the way down position the seat would be 0 degrees - no angle back - but level - turns out that it seems to lean down a bit more forward when tilt is all the way down - which makes my foot rests too low to the ground and also makes you feel as if your leaning forward too much -

in order to compensate for that - i tilt my chair back a bit - just enough to level it - angled back a bit - thats how i use the chair all the time - in doing so - it does add a little bit of bounce to it when riding over bumps etc, - all depends how big or how bad the bumps - cracks are - it can be a benefit or can be too much bounce - depending on speed and type of bump etc, -

so on my next chair - i will consider a 3 degree seat angle - now that i know how this model works - no more than 3 degree - that should be better - and may enable me to ride it with out tilting it back a bit - which will make it just that much less bounce to it - the chair itself can handle the roads - the shocks it has and softness of the tires etc, - really does work - and much needed on many chairs in the city at least -

[shirley_hkg]

In terms of curb climbing ability and riding comfort , 9" pneumatic casters win 2.00-4 tyres on suspension forks...... HANDS DOWN.

Quickie just love skinny tyres . I have to make the forks myself , if I were changing to bigger wheels . Owned 2 before and sold after trying .

[expresso]

i cant speak for many other chairs - i been with quickie from the start - i have tried a few chairs - the invacare - model - which everyone and there mother has here - if rear wheel -

i rode that one - that one was better than my P222 in terms of comfort only - but not better than the current 636 646 chairs in my eyes when it comes to comfort -
the invacare seems very heavy and nose heavy also - - it can do the curbs pretty well if the user knows how to handle it - and its programmed better than stock -

my wheels are thinner than most of them - 8 x 2 - quickie uses those for what ever reason - i never had issues with them - can easily get over a decent size curb - the suspension forks are what really helps them -

i would have tried the 9 inch casters if it had suspension forks for them - but nothing - so i dont want to chance that - i already know how it feels with no suspension on the forks and it alot of harder

the invacare chair feels too bulky and heavy to me - Cant wheelie at all with those chairs - P222 se is king for wheelies - if we are talking about stock chairs now - Not modified like BM etc, - P222 chair is light - CG is great and can be adjusted to make it even more tipsy - - 646 is Ok - it gets the job done - just not the same feel - but better in many other ways also -

[Burgerman]

;) In terms of curb climbing ability and riding comfort , 9" pneumatic casters win 2.00-4 tyres on suspension forks...... HANDS DOWN.

Agreed. But mine are 9.6 inches, 3.00 wide on 4 diameter rims. so work even better. Lots of low pressure volume. Even on sand or snow/mud.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... ir-700.jpg big low pressure tyres.

Expresso did you watch that vid? http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/10.wmv
Download to desktop first.

[expresso]

hey yes i watched it - i cant comment on those tires - i am sure they work alot better then stock tires we get on our wheel chairs - i am only comparing the chairs - tires as they come to us from the vendor etc, - your tires - shirley - etc,

thats all modified forks - tires - etc, - the reason i got the suspension forks is for that very reason - your vid - showing your front tire going up the curb - the low pressure - the tire gives and make is softer smoother to get up - thats what the suspension does - and it works great - now if i had your type of tire also - then it be as good as you can get i guess -

unless they make a fork - tire combination that will fit my chair as is - its not something i am able to do - or even care to do since it works fine as is - - i can see if i didnt have suspension forks - then they offer the 9 inch caster - its larger and wider a bit - maybe with that fork - you can find a tire to make fit and work on there -

but i dont have them either way - but i see the difference - the video - the tire absorbs it and softens it up - thats the one thing we dont get - the tires are all harder material - actually the 646 models - rear tires are softer material - compared to the P222 rear tire - thats a rock - i mean if i sit tilted back for a 10 min lets say - with out moving -

then i come down and start to move - the tire feels like i have a Rock stuck in the groove - its out of shape sort of - with a lump as it turns till it settles down and goes away after a few blocks - i never felt that with any other tire -

nice dog - my friend had one the same - they great dogs -

[Burgerman]

thats all modified forks - tires - etc,

Nope! Thats quite a normal option size on many indoor/OUTDOOR capable powerchairs here. Difference is just that I have a rear biased cg position, so casters are very lightly loaded. And so work just fine with just a few lb of air pressure.

Or none at all! http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/puncture.mp4 So a puncture will not stop you getting home. I ran this so long it wore right through, went pop, and I still used it to go to the pub for 2 days.

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/bad_tyre.mp4 this one went on the rubbish pile!!! You need to examine these carefully. Some are rubbish!!!

[expresso]

thats great then - simple easy swap then - i dont know any wheelchairs here in the states - or at least the ones i see around here - the closest one is the Invacare chairs - which are a decent size - i think they are 8 x 3 - -

quickie makes a 9 x 3 i believe - but can only be had with fixed forks - no suspension fork - i opted for the suspension - on the P222 chair - its hard as rock - i dont believe having a 9 inch caster alone with no suspesion will do the trick -

now if you were able to change tires - and put your kind in there - softer - etc, - then maybe can work fine - for us - i think it would have to be modified - - and very few select users will care enough to make some effort - its just like the battery thing - they wont do it - - many just cant - funds - and even if they had funds - they wont - just not there thing - they just want to use it as is - not get too involved -

i wont mind that either if you can get the chair your way - with many options - then nothing left to modify - someone like you BM and some others - we just like to modify things anyway - dosnt matter if its needed or not -

you think you can find a direct drop in for the quickie fixed forks - which hold a 9 x 3 tire ?

Nice place you have

[Burgerman]

Its strange that the 10 x 3 tyres are not common on rear drive chairs in the US isnt it. Wonder why.

My house? http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property/20-wes ... sp/7284481 Pics lower down.

I imagine that it wouldnt buy a 1 bedroom flat where you live! http://www.new-york-apartment.com/en-gb ... e/listing/ It would be interesting to live in new york but I get 4 bedrooms, large kitchen and lounge, dining room, utility room, 3 bathrooms a garage, drveway big enough to test chairs, garden for bbq's, and no neibours for the same price!

Its not worth quite as much as that websites estimated value either...
If you look at the street view you can take a look at the state of the footpaths and roads!

Fortunately all bought and paid before I crashed though... Fortunately pretty perfect for a wheelchair user in both open layout, storage, parking, garage all carpeted to store chairs and junk... And position near everything useful like parks, pubs, stations, workshops to get bits made and college up the road. Thats fate for you.

[expresso]

hey you got lucky there and it may be just how it was suppose to be for you very nice - your good - comfortable - build your chairs - smart - - what can we do - - i dont have the answers - if given a choice - i wouldnt pick being in a wheelchair etc, - but i am - and trying to have fun with the fact.

i think its pretty cool - the chair thing - if i were cured tomorrow - i may still keep my chairs and use them at times

forget it about here - you really have to be a multi millionaire - not even a millionaire - thats not enough - i am looking out my window now - a new building went up near central park - its so tall i can see it - i heard those apts are going for 45 to 65 million - each -

i think its the whole floor type of apt. - i think - it may not even be that - if you want to park your bicycle there - theres a fee - - $1000 a month just to park a bicycle - haha - its insane rich - if i find the name of it - will look it up for pictures -


you got a very nice place there - i would love a nice home like that - - i noticed it has a upstairs also - do you use the upstairs - if you do - how do you manage to get up there ?

for my dream home - or any home for that matter haha - i vision one large flat ranch style - - one sound proof room for my audio and movies - another sound proof bathroom and large - - extra bathroom for guests -

[Burgerman]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... WQ&cad=rja

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j ... WQ&cad=rja

Page 27 and below, on groove or your own chair:
Shows a caster fork for a 10 x 3 caster tyre... And a part number for a chair like yours.
Somewhere else on there will be the wheel and tyre.

15 550696 10 x 3 CASTER FORK S626

Will allow you to fit the 4 inch x 2.5 rim, with 10 inch x 3 (3.00 x 4) tyres...

[expresso]

9 x 3 inch caster that is - i can get that or could have but would be a fixed fork - not suspension if i went with 9 x 3 - i felt the suspension was the best way to go - i could be wrong - maybe it would have been just fine with the fixed 9 x3

its cheaper for me to get a fixed fork with 9x3 caster after the fact - then to get the 9x3 fixed and then want to go to suspension model - would cost more - but it works great with the suspension fork - so i am not even complaining -

would have been better if they gave you the suspension option with the 10 x 3 caster -

[expresso]

wait i see it - 10 x 3 caster fork - but you use a 9 x 3 tire in there - i didnt know that before - i just went by the tire size

[Burgerman]

i could be wrong - maybe it would have been just fine with the fixed 9 x3

But its the same fork that allows the 10 x 3 tyres that many chairs here use. Or buy on ebay...

[Burgerman]

Jive chair, same forks, 10x3 tyre.

[expresso]

well i learned something today - thats a nice chair also - the jive -

i never seen that size tire combo on a quickie chair here - actually - you dont even see quickie chairs here much at all - i think 3 other people i seen before - and a few others with the midwheel quickie -

they have this thing against quickie - i had to push for it - they push Pride alot - we know better than that - i even knew better -

its done now - but something to think for the future - or on my older chair - for me now - what benefit would that be to me now ? i dont have a problem with my current 9 x3 with suspension forks - i would like to ride my chair with those to compare - but good luck getting one for a demo that way -

what difference would i expect if i had those instead of my 8 x 3 with suspension ? i am not looking to change mines - they feel great to me - but just to know - what are the pros and cons ?



the tires - you can get them - Solid or with the inner tube - solid is stiffer for sure - but wont go flat - which i NEED - i run over everything here - - i cant be bothered or worried when i ride for 20 miles one way if i get a flat -

so if i would to get those 10 inch casters - then i can put any wheel i want in them and get a better ride - - would it be flat free also ? i cant be dealing with fixing flats - those days are over -

BM looking at the parts list - what do you think of the Rear wheel - can that be replaceable in terms of size - when i look at my chair - the fender wold have to be removed for sure - and it may be too close to the frame then -

just curious - not looking to change wheels on my new chair - i just started to use it actually - will be two years old in xmas

[Burgerman]

what difference would i expect if i had those instead of my 8 x 3 with suspension ? i am not looking to change mines - they feel great to me - but just to know - what are the pros and cons ?

Larger diameter wheels roll better over every obstacle. Larger sidewall, greater volume means a lower air pressure is adequate meaning a much better absorbtion of edges, curbs, small bumps. You would notice a softer smoother ride over what you have. And on anything soft like sand or snow they offer better floatation and so you ride on top. Rather than getting stuck. Pneumatic tyres also give better range.

Disadvantage is that they swing out slightly wider as you move about indoors.

Flat tyres?
Its just not an issue. I have at times left one deflated for weeks if I cant be bothered to fix it. If I intend rebuilding the chair instead for ex. It drives fine!

[expresso]

these would be flat free ? Pneumatic tires ?

so really no Cons - since indoors - first thing i do is remove the legs off the chair - i call them legs - -

but would it be a real big difference from what i have now ? if it feels just fine with the suspension forks and 8 x 3 tires - - i can keep this in mind for the older chair if i wanted to try it - or maybe upcoming new chair -

maybe i go for this size on the next chair - and no suspension forks - this way i have one chair with and one with out - then i can compare - thats a good idea - i may just do that - i am so used to seeing the smaller front tires - that these look huge - and bulky -

[Burgerman]

these would be flat free ? Pneumatic tires ?

Read what I type!

Larger diameter wheels roll better over every obstacle. Larger sidewall, greater volume means a lower air pressure is adequate meaning a much better absorbtion of edges, curbs, small bumps. You would notice a softer smoother ride over what you have. And on anything soft like sand or snow they offer better floatation and so you ride on top. Rather than getting stuck. Pneumatic tyres also give better range.

Disadvantage is that they swing out slightly wider as you move about indoors.

Flat tyres?
Its just not an issue. I have at times left one deflated for weeks if I cant be bothered to fix it. If I intend rebuilding the chair instead for ex. It drives fine!

[Burgerman]

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/puncture.mp4

[expresso]

i did - you dont get what i am asking - flat free - dont go flat period - and the other ones - can go flat but your saying its not a issue because you can ride with it flat also -

thats what i am understanding - - its a concern of mines - i take long rides - - and the city here is full of junk glass in the streets etc, - not all smooth and nice - not looking to ride back on a flat tire for 20 miles - can it even do that ?
would be a strain on the batteries also i would think -

you use some sort of flat free filler in your tube tires to avoid flats ?

[Burgerman]

I use some sealer. But while that sealer works really well on tubeless tyres like my rear wheel/tyres and is very very effective, its much less reliable on small tube type tyres. It does work, but a major issue will still allow a deflation. But if it failed, you dont have to stop...

Thats one of the major reasons I only use tubeless rear tyres. They are massively more reliable, 100% so with a sealer.

Polyurethane, foam, green, etc flat free type tyres eat batteries, give an awful ride.

[expresso]

i dont think i be changing out the rear tires - looking at my chair now - i notice - the fender needs to be cut off - Ok that can be done if i really wanted - but the tie downs that are welded on for transport - etc,

that would interfere with a taller higher tire - i think my rear tires are 14 x 3 - i may have a inch more to play with - higher

i can maybe explore those front tires - casters at some point and see how that works out - down the line - even though in your video - you move with the flat tire - not so sure that would work in real life in the city - try making that ride on a flat tire for 20 miles - not something i am looking forward too -

i guess in that situation - i would have to get to a bus or cab to make it back - if i am not in a park and off the main roads too far -

[LROBBINS]

John's tires are not "flat free". His fat rear tires are tubeless and loaded with sealant so are nearly flat free, but they would make any "normal" chair too wide. Except on the "green" chair, they are not significantly larger in diameter, but they are quite a bit fatter and have smaller diameter wheels so there's a lot more sidewall to squish and absorb shock. His caster tires are regular pneumatic tires with inner tubes, but he can drive even if flat because he has his center of gravity way to the rear so there's very little weight on the casters to begin with. With low caster loading, they can also be at low pressure so they too absorb shock.

Just as with the lithium battery/charger setup, the physical designs of his chairs are a "system" with lots of pieces that fit together to make it work. You can't just take one thing from those designs and separate it from the others. I suggest that you go to the pages on the main WheelchairDriver.com site and read slowly through the BM2 pages to understand how it all comes together.

[expresso]

thanks - i have looked at that section -

just taking in the info - i dont see myself changing out my rear tires - - i would maybe one day but only if i realize i can do some sort of simple swap - with out major modification -

the front is simple - since i get the forks i just learned about today - and can try different tires but its not on short list

the lithium is going to keep me happy for a long while