Radio Control

[dialer]

Hi All
I am now the owner of a (free) invacare TDX with Dynamic control. It is now up and running but I now want to be free of wires. I have an old R/C jellycopter (complete) is there an easy solution to marry up the TDX and jellycopter controls. Am I able to keep the TDX control gear or do I need lots of other bits and bobs, I am mechanically savvy but computer illiterate so simple's is best for me.

Please if this has been covered elsewhere on this forum will you point me nicely in the right direction

thanks

[gcebiker]

It can be done, its complicated....
I am in the process of doing it now (not for RC reasons but to add sensors to the chair i am sitting in)
the code could easily be adapted to RC use though.

All the info is in this thread, viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4867

Cheers
Tony

[gcebiker]

If you are not going to be using the controller joystick module could i ask that you send it to me ....i have been looking for a donor one to 'rewire' for a while now and they are scarce.

I am on the Gold Coast, Australia.

Cheers
Tony

[Burgerman]

RC? Woody does a tiny module, just plugs in. I use one now instead of my old home made complicated version.

Theres a pinned thread at the top of the forum. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3790

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/rc.mp4 vid
http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/gopro/rc2.mp4 vid 2

Old method, then woodys method after 2014. http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/radio-c ... rchair.htm

[woodygb]

IF the joystick inside the pod is a JC2000 ... THEN my interface will work.

I think that some of the Pride Q-logics use the same joystick ...also ALBER .

However the Alber uses two divergent channels PER AXIS .... JC2000 PNOOO dual output - opposite sense ... thus requiring an extra digipot.

[LROBBINS]

Dialer says that his machine has a Dynamic controller, but not which one. Dynamic has used various different joystick pots, so he's going to have to find out which one he has before he can adapt Woody's or gcebiker's solutions, or some other hack. For example, the DC attendant control uses a dual analog output per axis (I think same direction) inductive stick, while the Shark uses a digital output (from a pic of the board posted here, SPI) pot. I don't know what other Dynamic pods have used, nor do I know whether the serial protocol in the DX controllers is the same as the one that gcebiker has decoded for the Shark - I don't think that it is as the DXbus has CANhi and CANlo lines that match the voltages specified by the CAN protocol.

Dialer may have a relatively simple path to getting RC control, or a difficult one, but he/she's going to have to find out what's in the joystick pod on hand.

Ciao,
Lenny

[gcebiker]

the DX bus is a RS485 signal not CAN, at least for the motor driver i have (which came off a jazzy600)

[LROBBINS]

Is that a DX or a Shark power module?

Here are three snippets from the dx-system-manual-issue1:

[gcebiker]

Yes i came across the same loose use of terminology when trying to emulator my Dynamic Shark controller (though never in official documentation, just other posts where a person/s was speculating on the nature of the Shark Bus).

Its RS485, i have all the code and pics/schematics of the boards i am using over on the other thread.
DG419 for the high on pulse and a MAX485 on the TX of the Arduino to the Power Module.

The video in my signature block gives a bit of a walk around of one of the earlier builds.

For other models of Dynamic controls it could well be CAN Bus.

[LROBBINS]

For other models of Dynamic controls it could well be CAN Bus.

What do you mean by this? The Shark and DX (or DX2) are different systems though both use the DX bus cable. I no longer have a DX system active here, so can't check voltages and waveforms. Have you checked this on an actual DX system?

[dialer]

Thanks guys

Didn't realize there was so many variants in one make of controller, mine being the DX2-REMB-ACS2. Now I am wondering as this is a project to create a helping hand around the garden to carry various items but also to help carry shopping from car to house and not passengers. My personal chair is a Puma 40 with R-net FWD and thanks to another member on here that is now spot-on and upto 4 years ago personal wheels was for others and knew nothing about them except they helped certain people in the community, who I had respect for and now an even greater respect ( sorry I will stop rabbiting)

Should I ditch the complete Dynamics and go with a new complete R/C system both involve a steep learning curve

Cheers Ted

[gcebiker]

For other models of Dynamic controls it could well be CAN Bus.

What do you mean by this? The Shark and DX (or DX2) are different systems though both use the DX bus cable. I no longer have a DX system active here, so can't check voltages and waveforms. Have you checked this on an actual DX system?

You have commented on the thread where i made an emulator...pretty sure i have done some sort of checking...
And there is a video of it in my sig block...

[gcebiker]

Ted where do you live...in Australia on the East coast...cause i happen to have a brand new RC Trailer sitting in my shed i would gladly swap for your chair, i am having loads of fun working on it....but the job would go so much easier if i could work on a chair i did not have to sit in

[dialer]

Hi GCEBiker

I watch you video with the wii controller and you mentioned you have done others can you point me to them as the one I watched was great

Ted

[gcebiker]

Just in my YouTube Channel and other text builds over at http://sailabilitygc.org/category/projects/

Ive others but not done videos or webpages , most of the data is in the thread i linked you a few posts back.

[gcebiker]

Fist Step Dialer - identify the Power module in the base of your chair.

There will be a sticker on it, it may also be able to be identified by a picture of your joystick.

If you could post pictures of both it would help us give some clear answers.

Cheers
Tony

[dialer]

Fist Step Dialer - identify the Power module in the base of your chair.

There will be a sticker on it, it may also be able to be identified by a picture of your joystick.

If you could post pictures of both it would help us give some clear answers.

Cheers
Tony

Sorry things went a bit pear shaped here but back on even keel now yes I will post pictures.
I really want to use the wheelchair electronics as what I learn will transfer to my TDX2 chair

Ted

[dialer]

Hi

Had all gubbins out from chair nothing except main panel that I would say controls the motor power which had nothing on it except serial and DX2 oh and 90L and another panel which seems to be the distribution for the actuators and lights. they are both invacare labeled. oh yea and a nice set of 73amp MK gel batteries
"now I need help as how to insert pics"

Cheers
Ted

[gcebiker]

Hi Ted,

I upload them to Facebook then link the location and paste it into a post.
eg , " [img]image_URL[/img]"
I am not sure how others do it.

If something said DX2 then it likely to be different to what i have done Re:hacking the Shark Bus on a Dynamic Power Module.
Mine is only RS485.

I have CAN boards here but i dont have a DX2 system to test my code out on.

I am looking to purchase a DX2 power module if any one has or sees one for sale for a reasonable price...please remember my sad AUD currency

Cheers
Tony

[LROBBINS]

Yes, that's a Dynamic DX2 90 Amp (+ short boost) power module. If you open up your joystick pod and take a pic of the pot, I may be able to tell you whether Woody's Arduino-to-analog hack can be modified to work with it. Try to include the connector at the end of the wires coming from the joystick pot - that will tell us whether it has dual outputs or single outputs per axis. I'm pretty sure that this is CANbus rather than RS485, and the packet structure will be quite different from what gcebiker found for the Shark, so there'd be a lot of CAN message sniffing to do to actually crack the digital bus.

[LROBBINS]

I had some spare time today so pulled open a DX/DX2 5-switch module to see what it uses for communications hardware. As I assumed from the documentation, it is CAN, though a restricted version limited to a max of 125kbps, with 3 rather than 4 data bytes per frame and with a limited ID field. That's because it uses a P82C150 combined I/O and CAN communications chip that imposes those limits. On top of that, the P82C150 is no discontinued, though a Dynamic engineer told me a few years ago that TI had a work-alike that they're now using. In any case, getting into a DX or DX2 system via the bus will be a fresh hacking experience for anyone willing and able to do it. I'd offer you a DX-PM, but the one I have is defunct so not of much use to anyone.

[gcebiker]

Lenny, if you have a working DX2 Joystick i could read the values and try to work it out, the power module being dead should not be a problem. So long as it passes power to the joystick (maybe i could repair the power module?)

The same as i did on the Shark till someone passed me the manual. I started out the same as Gizmosmith, doing a data capture at power up, then working through, changing on variable at a time to see what data packet changed each time.

It would give me an excuses to go and that Oscilloscope i have been thinking about.

That fellow on YouTube with the Nunchuck / touch tablet wheelchair , he is interfacing with a DX2, a bit of a shame i have not had a reply from him as yet.

[LROBBINS]

I don't have a DX2 anything, just DX and the master control from Rachi's old system is not a joystick but a Specialty Controls Remote. The failure in the PM involves the 40 Amp relay used as its main contactor, but it's in the circuitry driving the relay not the relay itself. This was the second PM we had that failed in this way.

Rather than trying to hack the Dynamic, because I'd already been working on scripting the Roboteq controller for John and Will, I decided to design my own full CANbus system with the Roboteq as PM. It is open source/open hardware and available to anyone. I had it built and only partially tested when the Dynamic failed, so it had some bugs, but served right away to get Rachi back in motion. Eventually I will properly document the hardware and software. On Rachi's chair the user interfaces are 5 switch inputs and an attendant joystick, and outputs are motors, brakes, seat lift and tilt, lights and a small TFT display with SD card for fault logging, but there's no reason at all one couldn't add any other desired function to the existing modules (within the memory limits of their Arduino boards) or add any other module if more computing power is needed.

[LROBBINS]

Just to confuse you, here's a correction to something I wrote a couple days ago. I'd written (re the Dynamic DX bus):

it is CAN, though a restricted version limited to a max of 125kbps, with 3 rather than 4 data bytes per frame

The correction is that the standard CAN frame contains 8 bytes of data, not 4. I have 4 in my head because in my system I send (up to) 4 bytes of data and (up to) 4 bytes with the the bitwise complements of the data bytes so that the receiving node can make an extra check (beyond those provided by the CAN protocol itself) for the validity of the incoming information. (This is similar to what's done in the "safety critical" flavors of CANOpen.)

[dialer]

Just to confuse you, here's a correction to something I wrote a couple days ago. I'd written (re the Dynamic DX bus):

it is CAN, though a restricted version limited to a max of 125kbps, with 3 rather than 4 data bytes per frame

The correction is that the standard CAN frame contains 8 bytes of data, not 4. I have 4 in my head because in my system I send (up to) 4 bytes of data and (up to) 4 bytes with the the bitwise complements of the data bytes so that the receiving node can make an extra check (beyond those provided by the CAN protocol itself) for the validity of the incoming information. (This is similar to what's done in the "safety critical" flavors of CANOpen.)

I now have 2 questions regarding all the excellent replies received on this subject, 1 where can I find the internal wiring plug configuration or 2 what is the correct way of determining what wire does what there looks like 10 of them discounting what are obviously the charge wires from the charge socket. If i get a BUS extending block and an attendant control and then hack into the second control stick and using that secondary control as the R/C input as at moment all I want to achieve is motion of chair

Cheers Ted

[woodygb]

Post a QUALITY photo of the internals of the joystick pod and the board can give a considered opinion and guidance.

[dialer]

Post a QUALITY photo of the internals of the joystick pod and the board can give a considered opinion and guidance.

Thanks but I have tried all ways to post some pics, please woody how?

[woodygb]

The best way for BIG photos is to upload them to the web ... say dropbox or similar ...then link to them.

[LROBBINS]

If i get a BUS extending block and an attendant control and then hack into the second control stick and using that secondary control as the R/C input as at moment all I want to achieve is motion of chair

That should work, but depending on what's in the regular joystick it might be a pretty expensive way to do things - unless you can find an e-bay attendant joystick for the exact same control system. You may be shocked at what dealers charge for the attendant module.

[dialer]

Hi

I have stopped being shocked at what dealers want for parts their mark-up must be bigger than a food outlet. put a word relating to disability in-front of anything in Britain and it trebles. But saying that I have met one dealer on here that is very very helpful in-fact he got my Puma40 program nearly spot on when I made it FWD from RWD I just needed to do a couple of dealer tweaks. Going back I have found a couple of attendant controls on Fleabay but not a BUS block

Ted