80Ah ADD ON build

[Scooterman]

We saw those before. Was waiting to see if anyone has tested them. But I like round numbers.

Ooh sorry i didn't realise.

A nice fit in the salsa though.

I might take the plunge after xmas.

[Burgerman]

You have 60Ah batteries now?
So about 35 to 40 usable at best. So a real 200Ah will allow you to have 5x the range. Since lithium dont shrink!

Claimed range 26 miles? If you only get a real 18 mile range outdoors, then this will give you 5x more, so 90 miles.

May be a lot more since expresso gets about 45 miles from a 90Ah battery with some left, and thats on an 8mph greedy set of motors otherwise identical motors.

[expresso]

0.3 x 20mm wide is the same as a 6mm sq mm wire.

Which is what I would likely use for an addon anyway. But if you can use 2 for each, then do so. Since 6mm2 is good for only 60A.

i was just told from them - that those connectors can hold 300A - so its not true then - i feel they are thin - i may be able to fit 3 of them on each connector - i think i have enough of them for 3 - if i can use 3 - would that be Ok then ?

i checked if the headways would fit - they done - those are a nice decent size thickness

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B01DMD4VGU/ ... _lig_dp_it

or maybe something like this would work better ? they seem to be the same length - less width but seem thicker from the picture

if i can use 3 - i should ? if not - 2 would be enough ?

[expresso]

Mine are 2mm thick

yes i like that - i will use them if they fit - the spacing after i wrap the cells etc, - but i will use 2 of them each - 3 if i have enough of them -

[expresso]

0.3 x 20mm wide is the same as a 6mm sq mm wire.

Which is what I would likely use for an addon anyway. But if you can use 2 for each, then do so. Since 6mm2 is good for only 60A.

Ok - i would use at least 2 for sure - i may have enough for 3 - if so - i would try 3 since i have no use for these other than these cells -

[expresso]

You have 60Ah batteries now?
So about 35 to 40 usable at best. So a real 200Ah will allow you to have 5x the range. Since lithium dont shrink!

Claimed range 26 miles? If you only get a real 18 mile range outdoors, then this will give you 5x more, so 90 miles.

May be a lot more since expresso gets about 45 miles from a 90Ah battery with some left, and thats on an 8mph greedy set of motors otherwise identical motors.

my pack is not 90ah its 105ah inside the chair - i could get 45 miles from there - 40 for sure - motors are 8.5 standard on that chair - with added volts and larger tires - lithium - i get 10 mph - and now i have a 45ah ADD ON also - this chair is all headway cells both inside and ADD ON. - not in rush to change them either.

these new Cells i am using - we just dont know how good they are long run - or even short run for that matter -

[Scooterman]

Hi expresso. If you want to be extra cautious you could always clean/wipe the ends of the strips with something like acetone or nail varnish remover. Just in case there's some oxidisation, oil, or other crude on the strips that you can't detect with the human eye?
I'll defer to BM on that one.

[Scooterman]

You have 60Ah batteries now?
So about 35 to 40 usable at best. So a real 200Ah will allow you to have 5x the range. Since lithium dont shrink!

Claimed range 26 miles? If you only get a real 18 mile range outdoors, then this will give you 5x more, so 90 miles.

May be a lot more since expresso gets about 45 miles from a 90Ah battery with some left, and thats on an 8mph greedy set of motors otherwise identical motors.

Now after programming, lightweight and an 'active' setup, I wish it had more top speed. I like round numbers too, and 10mph seems just about right

[expresso]

thats true - i mean just handling them with your fingers can get oils on them and they dont all look perfect shiny - i have acholol prep pads wipes - maybe i just use those before i screw them down - this is even if they fit - i can widen the holes a bit with a hole puncher i just purchased also for this purpose - i will see - if i can use them it would be easier to finish it up. have to start wrapping them first and waiting on the silicon sheet - i have to check if i have the other items i need for the balance cables also - ring ends -


Can only use 2 connectors each - i am short 3 connectors in order to use 3 of them each - so 2 will have to do - or i have to make cables - if making cables i will arrange the cells all the same pos and neg all lined up - if using connectors i have to arrange the cells Pos - Neg - Pos - Neg

[woodygb]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DMD4VGU/?c ... pldnSite=1

or maybe something like this would work better ? they seem to be the same length - less width but seem thicker from the picture

The first thickness spec ( 0.02" ) is more than likely wrong

The spec further down the page say's

Package Dimensions 7.5 x 5 x 0.2 inches

or 5.2 mm thick

[expresso]

thanks Woody - i didnt realize that - i keep this one in mind if i have to purchase them instead - would be easier than making cables - i may just need to make the hole bigger -


https://www.amazon.com/RMP-Stamping-Bla ... EGYS80RED4


i think maybe the One inch kind like these may be even better - for some reason on the picture i feel they are large but it says 1 inch x 2 inch long - these should work ?

[Scooterman]

Out of curiosity if one was going to build two physically separated 12v lithium batteries with prismatic cells, is this how they'd be arranged? I've not drawn the balance cables yet as my learning hasn't yet reached that level.

EDIT: On hindsight if say the polarity of the 4 cells in the LH bank were reversed then it would allow for a shorter and neater end link cable, or something like that. I need some more kitchen roll to make another diagram.

[expresso]

https://www.amazon.com/RMP-Stamping-Rec ... W5QHPMYHBK


do you think it would be best if i had to purchase these - should i get them with no holes in them - instead of the same with holes ready made ? the holes i am sure would need to be widened or i can get very lucky and they would just fit -

if i had to purchase out of the 3 links i posted - which would be the ones to try ?

thanks

[expresso]

Out of curiosity if one was going to build two physically separated 12v lithium batteries with prismatic cells, is this how they'd be arranged? I've not drawn the balance cables yet as my learning hasn't yet reached that level.

EDIT: On hindsight if say the polarity of the 4 cells in the LH bank were reversed then it would allow for a shorter and neater end link cable, or something like that. I need some more kitchen roll to make another diagram.

here is a 12v pack with headways

[expresso]

top view

[woodygb]

22 Mil/16 Ounce Copper (.0216") 24 gauge: 16 ounce copper sheeting is a heavy weight copper often referred to as "roofing copper" or "roofing flashing." It weighs approximately 1 pound per square foot.

Thus 16 oz is .0216" Thick ...NOT .21" as I previously said ...which is the PACKAGE of 10.

[expresso]

that means it would be good then ?

[BugBayMx]

with how many cells of 105ah inside your chair you travel 40-45 miles ?, with 1 cell? it is not clear to me, as they call it a package, I do not know, how many are there?

Thanks.

my pack is not 90ah its 105ah inside the chair - i could get 45 miles from there - 40 for sure - motors are 8.5 standard on that chair - with added volts and larger tires - lithium - i get 10 mph - and now i have a 45ah ADD ON also - this chair is all headway cells both inside and ADD ON. - not in rush to change them either.

these new Cells i am using - we just dont know how good they are long run - or even short run for that matter -

[Burgerman]

7 of 15Ah cells, x 8 groups. 7 parallel, 8 series, so 56 cells. Thats quite a small pack for lithium.

[expresso]

thats the best - most that can fit with headways - if doing this today - i would and can fit 160ah - its done and it works and i am not complaining - with a 45ah ADD ON also -- gives me 150ah on that chair - i have yet to do more than 44 miles on a single day so far - have plenty left over.

this is the 105ah pack inside the chair - i have a 45ah ADD ON also outside the chair connected to this one -

[expresso]

this is a 30ah pack ADD ON which i added another 8 Cells for 45ah -

[Scooterman]

Expresso: Re the connectors/links. What I don't understand is if you put insulation between the cells won't the distance between the terminals of adjacent cells be greater than the distance between the pre-drilled holes in the connectors/links?

I must be missing something/misread something, so apologies in advance everyone if this is a dumb question

[expresso]

with the headways - its fine - nothing to worry about - you get the correct connectors for the cells you purchase - when doing the Cells i am doing now - thats another story - yes that can happen - but one way or another you can fix it - on my pervious 60ah Cells - i didnt get any - so i made cables instead and arranged the Cells differently as per BM - i didnt think of it - and i was able to make cables to connect them sideways - works fine also. thats the worse case -

now with the this Cells - i wrapped them today - added a sheet of silicone and tested if the connectors i received worked - and it turns out they did - so i can double up on them and use them if i like - makes things easier - i did order some i found which maybe thicker - when i get them, i will see if they work out - and decide which i will use - but at least i dont think i need to make cables for these cells

i liked how i wrapped them - didnt add much thickness to them - and i feel better this way - unlike the previous Cells i didnt really wrap them as i did these -

[expresso]

Cell Wrapping Day

[expresso]

more

[expresso]

My Wrapping is not as good as Snaker - hes the master

you like my new Nail Color ?

[expresso]

https://www.ev-power.eu/LiFePO4-accesso ... P20AH.html

i found that these would fit if i needed - but it looks like i wont be needing them -


i have these on order for this week -

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00 ... UTF8&psc=1

i wanted to see them for myself and decide which way i will go - these look thicker on the picture and have a hole punched already - if anything i have a hole puncher also and can widen it - size wise - i think they be fine both ways.. just the hole placement - there are options i am learning now - i would like to always receive them when buying new Cells - but when dealing with China - and those websites its not easy to go back and forth with them - and after all that - you still dont get what you think you were. as long as the Cells are good - i can deal with the minor things -

[Burgerman]

Blue nails? Nice...

[expresso]

you dont like blue -- what pink next time ? haha


thats not mines - thats Quickie helping me -- shes my helper now - it helps that she lives a few floors below me also and interested - she has my 36ah pack - PL 8 - PSU - for her chair - which will be finished up this winter and used on her 646 chair - whats great about ADD ON packs - is i can even have her use this 80ah ADD ON on her chair and she can take the long ride with me to NJ mountains - with the 2 diodes in line - i think she be able to make it -

last summer she made it with my 60ah ADD ON - but she took the bus or train one way up to the NJ Bridge first - then we made the whole trip and back with no problems - this was the pride chair that eats battery alot faster than most other 8 mph chairs do - - to be safe she can still take the train one way - then she be fine the rest of the day - no worries -

making the train ride one way at least - saves a good 8 miles - that makes the difference - she can then make the rest of the ride all day and get home with leftover - i bet she be even able to make it total - we will see what 2 diodes will get her in range wise - 40 miles would be great - but i say at anywhere between 20 to 25 - if lucky 30 - not enough to make the whole trip

[ex-Gooserider]

Hard to tell from the drawing - as drawn you would have major smoke and fire as there are multiple dead shorts between the cells and a larger short across the entire pack...

The key thing to remember is that electrically there is NO difference between a single 24V pack, two 12V packs in series, or any other arrangement, the only difference is the cabling tying the cells together - length and what the material is.... In a pack the preference is generally for bus bars (metal strips) while going between packs we use heavier cables.... But electrons are stupid and can't tell the difference so the only difference is mechanical, the electrics are the same....

The quick and simple guide is that most packs will have groups of parallel cells that are connected in series.

In each group of parallel cells, you connect all the positive terminals together, and all the negatives together, but never connect a negative and positive. From an electrical standpoint, this combines all the cells in the group together into one big cell, with a single positive and negative terminal.

The parallel groups get tied together by connecting the negative terminal of one group to the positive of the next group to make a 'chain' tying the groups together so you have a single big collection with a positive and negative terminal that you connect to the scooter controller...

The balance wires simply go to the positive and negative outer terminals, and the point where each serial connection is made...

ex-Gooserider

Out of curiosity if one was going to build two physically separated 12v lithium batteries with prismatic cells, is this how they'd be arranged? I've not drawn the balance cables yet as my learning hasn't yet reached that level.

EDIT: On hindsight if say the polarity of the 4 cells in the LH bank were reversed then it would allow for a shorter and neater end link cable, or something like that. I need some more kitchen roll to make another diagram.