Owner's manual for Apex Sedens 500

[sacharlie]

2P-048560 is the # for the Sedens 500. So your battery pack should be 2 18650 liion cells.

On the face of the control/pump bottom right corner does it have Apex with Sedens 500 directly below Apex?

[flagman1776]

Yes, it does have APEX Sedens 500 in the lower right corner of the face.

[sacharlie]

Well I got the Sedens 500 also. Came yesterday. The correct model # is 9p-048560.

It has 3400mAh 18650 Liion cells 2s1p for 7.2v.
Pump is no louder than a long fart but without smell.
The 4 air cells are 2" diameter by 14" long. These make an air cushion 14" wide by 9.5" deep. The material most likely will not last very long.

Charged up in 1.5 hours.
On the bench now to see what the run time will be.

[Burgerman]

You may be surprised. Mine got longer after it was used a while. Presumably the various valves and solenoids learned to seal a little better. Stays inflated when off for days on end now. So the pumps run less frequently.

Does it have 12 or 8.4V supply?
Test...


youtu.be/hIMMYJ97BjM

[sacharlie]

Charger says model GS2D-015-120-M
output 12V...1250mA 15W Max

[Burgerman]

Interesting. Mines 8.4V. Yours must use a voltage regulator inside to feed 8.40 CV to the pack. Yours is slightly different to mine.

[sacharlie]

The 12 hour run time is really understated.

I set the pump to the highest pressure and the quickest cycle.
It ran for 36.5 hours before the low battery alarm tripped.

[Burgerman]

Thats what I expected. It is harder to inflate (more amps) when its got you on it though. But still it will do a day.

[sacharlie]

Thats what I expected. It is harder to inflate (more amps) when its got you on it though. But still it will do a day.

Well that's an issue in physics that has me scratching my head!
Seems the issue is the air volume the bladder needs to be more so than the psi. Either way, high psi or larger air volume, will take more amps.
The bladder of this cushion is not going to hold up and does not have enough seating surface area for my liking.

I like the pump you have, IIRC the pump you have puts out 4x the volume of air as this one. Regardless, if you had a choice would you go for a foam perimeter with the small bladder insert OR the entire cushion with air cells held in shape by its cover like a ROHO?

[Burgerman]

Small air part, only under the 3 important bits. Maybe 11 inches x 11 at the rear of the cushion. Under ischael and coxxcyxcyxcx bones And the rest foam for easy transfers and stability in use.

[ex-Gooserider]

Absolutely the smaller area air cushion w/ foam surround.... Transfers and weight shifts on a Roho are really difficult as any time you push down, the thing compresses under your hand and bulges under your butt.....

Plus I want my butt covering any air bladders when I'm in the shops making welding sparks and / or sharp metal chips... Rohos aren't SAFE under those conditions....

ex-Gooserider

[Burgerman]

Well that's an issue in physics that has me scratching my head!
Seems the issue is the air volume the bladder needs to be more so than the psi. Either way, high psi or larger air volume, will take more amps.
The bladder of this cushion is not going to hold up and does not have enough seating surface area for my liking.

When you are sat on it, it has to push you up, or at least half of your flesh up for a longer period until the high pressure set at the pump is reached. Ergo more power used. Think about raising a car with a flat tyre up 6 inches as you inflate the tyre. V just inflating a unatached wheel. It does not have the extra energy of lifting the car too. So it uses a little more power if you are sitting on it.

I like the pump you have, IIRC the pump you have puts out 4x the volume of air as this one. Regardless, if you had a choice would you go for a foam perimeter with the small bladder insert OR the entire cushion with air cells held in shape by its cover like a ROHO?

Small area just under your bones. You never get sores in other places. And the air cannot move around under you all over. So its more effective with a smaller area. In the same way that a 4 chamber roho is better. But the firm foam around the edges and front is much better for stability, and supporting more weight away from the air part. And for transfers.

What do you mean that the air cells wont last? Mine seem pretty good. And not failed yet. Those are relatively cheaply made though. So should be cheap to replace from china if we find a source!

[sacharlie]

The cheap air cell bladder will be protected by the cushion cover. The weak area will be the seams. With that said if there was a supply of replacement 6 cell bladders like your's I would be satisfied with that but not this 4 cell bladder I have here. It's just not enough seating surface.

As to the air bladder width. I use a 18" wide cushion, looking down side to side at my hips the fleshy width looks to be 16". With a 11"-12" wide bladder I believe my hip bones would be against the hard foam along the sides gIving way to sores at the hip bone. If the PSI of the air bladder keeps you above on top of the cushion there is no problem. I am hoping for some immersion effect like a static air cushion with the benefit of alternating pressure. With that the 14" wide bladder seems a good fit.

[Burgerman]

The bones that need protection are as image. Around 140 to 160mm apart.

The hips are not in danger seated and can take weight off the important bits. So you should ideally build the cushion fiam up around your thighs and only need the air cells in the middle.

Hips are in danger turned on a bed.

[sacharlie]

OK yeah! That ball joint at the hip & femur isn'T taking downward pressure while seated.

[Burgerman]

A seat cushion shaped to fit your rear automatically spreads the load over all of your rear and because the edges and sides are taking some of the eight, theres much less pressure on your bones to cause sores.

Sort of this shape, but very firm. Better support, less pressure. Now a HARD foam cushion, that sort of shape, and with air cells only under the bony area, would be the best of all worlds.

Similar to an F1 car drivers foam polyurethane seat thats moulded around him.

[Burgerman]

OK yeah! That ball joint at the hip & femur isn'T taking downward pressure while seated.

It takes very little. Thats why you dont see pressure sores there. It NEEDS to take more! Almost all sores are the ischeal tuborosities. Or from laying down, tailbone/back. And the image shows why that is. The cushion above, takes advantage of that and DOES put pressure on the outer edges of the seat, removing it from the bones...

[Burgerman]

When you look at almost every map, they almost universally look similar to this. Never shows much pressure on your hips. And that is the problem You WANT the edges (the white parts, here to take some of the weight. In an ideal situation the whole of that seat would have the same pressure. You get that by building up the edges like the hips and the rear corners of your cushion.

Never saw high pressure on hips ever!

[sacharlie]

The bones that need protection are as image. Around 140 to 160mm apart.

The hips are not in danger seated and can take weight off the important bits. So you should ideally build the cushion fiam up around your thighs and only need the air cells in the middle.

Hips are in danger turned on a bed.

What might be the widest spread of those sitting bones for someone with a broad butt?

OH HELL NEVER MIND!
You already said 160mm.

[Burgerman]

That was a guestimate.

[Burgerman]

THAT is the shape of cushion we all need. It sits your weight on all the bits where every flat type cusion shows theres non. And therefore removes the pressure on the bits that show red or yellow on a map.

The idea is that you offload the weight from the high risk areas and move it to the outer edges.
So if theres no contact at all, its pretty hard to get sores!

So in the bottom of that round "hole" we need a small alternating bars, a square section.

This is harder material, not soft foam, so it can support weight. Whoever designed that has a clue! But... Needs alternating air too.

https://www.ridedesigns.com/java-cushion

[Burgerman]

youtu.be/fFLmx3S1A10

[Burgerman]

youtu.be/uHEqU32yt6I

[sacharlie]

Still doing some testing on this cushion. My thought is even though the idea here is to alternate the area of your butt taking pressure why not also do that with the least amount of pressure that keeps your butt from bottoming out. This cushion has 4 tubes 2" diameter so to alternate you only sit on 2 at a time. That doesn't seem to be quite enough surface area. I set the cushion to static mode (all 4 tubes inflated) at the softest setting with 85lbs of weight on top. Those 4 tubes sank 1.125" so would sink even more when alternating 2 at a time. Sure you could go up 4 more higher pressure settings but that seems to defeat the benefit of an air cushion.

[flagman1776]

As I posted in the other thread... I have been experimenting with it off but residual air pressure, on static, on alternating. I think the least air is best at conforming to my bottom. You have to get air in somehow. Too hard is like riding a bucking horse. Too hard can create pressure spots, depending on your weight. Softer, mushy, lets it spread the pressure the best so long as you aren't bottomed.

[Burgerman]

Pressure relief cushions like all the roho, jay gel, and all the rest are not about comfort. They are about not getting pressure sores.

A presure sore develops where the flesh under the skin gets starved of oxygen and nutrients because the bloodflow is restricted for too long. Due to your bodyweight being pressed against any bony prominance. This causes the skin to die, under the surface. The next think you see is a very red mark that does not go white when pressed. Or a mark that looks like a blister. Or that lookks like a small cut.

A person that is healthy, and not paralised will change position many times as they sleep unconsciously and do so in response to feeling pain. Without even waking. This is automatic in normal healthy people. That pain is caused by pressure cutting of blood supply in the capilliaries in the skin or muscle over areas of high pressure. Heels, hips, coccyx, etc while laid. Or the coccx and the two main sitting bones under your backside when sitting. You MOVE position slightly many times per night to allow these parts to get blood/oxygen. So healthy non paralised people generally wont get pressure ulcers.

If you sat on a flat wood seat, this would give very high pressure and be uncomfortable on your two "sitting bone" positions, and it would cause pressure sores garanteed in a paraplegic or anyone with no sense of feeling or with no ability to change position if it gets "uncomfortable". But if you were to lift all your body weight OFF that wooden board, say for 2 mins, every 15 mins, you would not ever get a pressure sore. Because that allows blood, and oxygen to re oxygenate the tissues before it dies and creates a sore.

The point then of a cushion that has alternating cells isnt to have a low pressure in all cells at once because it feels comfortable. It is to load all your weight on different parts of your backside, leaving the other parts free to get oxygenated blood to allow them to recover and not die every few minutes...

So those cusion work best when set to alternate, and at high pressure. The higher the pressure the more they lift you off the opposite areas. Allowing recovery of cells.

[flagman1776]

I think I respectfully disagree about high pressure but I do agree that alternating is necessary for healing if injury has already occurred. Because I can move and stand even if only briefly gives me a bias and my opinion must be qualified by my circumstances. My issues are certainly different than others. We are each using the tools we have to the best of our ability. The air cushion has helped me.

My objection to the higher pressure stems from the chair I'm using it in and the instability the high pressure causes. If I had room for a chair... say with arms... maybe with a seat belt. When blown up harder, the instability causes me to constantly use my legs to keep position, causing fatigue which is so much a problem with MS. I've had so much pressure on my feet at times that my feet have gone numb which then makes me at greater frisk of falls.

[Burgerman]

I think I respectfully disagree about high pressure but I do agree that alternating is necessary for healing if injury has already occurred.

No. The whole point is to PREVENT a pressure ulcer. Pressure on one spot continuously, cuts off the oxygen (because it crushes the fine capailiaries in your skin). The whole point of having 2 groups of cells is to alternate and so it rests any parts of your backside that are suffereing, and allows blood to oxygenate the bits you were previously sitting on. The lower the pressure difference between bladders the less this differential occurs. You need adequate pressure on the high spot to lift the opposite bits of your backside off the deck.

Once its occured (a red mark, or worse if you dont catch it in time), you should be getting off the chair completely, and laying flat, to remove most of the pressure from your backside. And to turn 4 hours apart, left then right until it has healed and completely gone before attempting to sit again. If not you will end up in surgery...

Because I can move and stand even if only briefly gives me a bias and my opinion must be qualified by my circumstances. My issues are certainly different than others. We are each using the tools we have to the best of our ability. The air cushion has helped me.

May be. But you lose the purpose of its design by just inflating it to low pressure and sitting on it without alternating.

My objection to the higher pressure stems from the chair I'm using it in and the instability the high pressure causes. If I had room for a chair... say with arms... maybe with a seat belt. When blown up harder, the instability causes me to constantly use my legs to keep position, causing fatigue which is so much a problem with MS. I've had so much pressure on my feet at times that my feet have gone numb which then makes me at greater frisk of falls.

You cannot and should not try to have the whole cushion under you.
The problem you have is that you need a foam cushion, with a SMALLER air section that goes only under the bones under your backside. It is stable for me because I need a 20 inch cushion. So I have a firm cushion with the air cells only under the important bits. What you have is too big for you. So you are sitting only on air.

[Burgerman]

This is a jay fusion AIR cushion. (Jay Balance in the UK. Theres Air or Gel verions. This does not alternate. This is what you need for stability and "comfort".


youtu.be/nIeLwNP5DSM

I would like the very same, with a small area - only under the sitting bones - that alternates. The reason this works better is because the outer edges of the cusion, and the part under your legs takes much of the weight. The sitting bones that develop sores due to pressure then have less load on them.

Thats why the cushion from Ride works.

Its also why THIS cushion, would allow you to use air and low pressure. And it would reduce pressure on the relevant bits, while giving YOU stability.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0730/ ... 4x1024.jpg

[Irving]

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EXPAND VIEW TOPIC REVIEW: OWNER'S MANUAL FOR APEX SEDENS 500
Re: Owner's manual for Apex Sedens 500
Post by Burgerman » Tue Aug 27, 2019 4:07 am

This is a jay fusion AIR cushion. (Jay Balance in the UK. Theres Air or Gel verions. This does not alternate. This is what you need for stability and "comfort".


youtu.be/nIeLwNP5DSM

I would like the very same, with a small area - only under the sitting bones - that alternates. The reason this works better is because the outer edges of the cusion, and the part under your legs takes much of the weight. The sitting bones that develop sores due to pressure then have less load on them.

Thats why the cushion from Ride works.

Its also why THIS cushion, would allow you to use air and low pressure. And it would reduce pressure on the relevant bits, while giving YOU stability.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0730/ ... 4x1024.jpg
Re: Owner's manual for Apex Sedens 500
Post by Burgerman » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:37 am

I think I respectfully disagree about high pressure but I do agree that alternating is necessary for healing if injury has already occurred.

No. The whole point is to PREVENT a pressure ulcer. Pressure on one spot continuously, cuts off the oxygen (because it crushes the fine capailiaries in your skin). The whole point of having 2 groups of cells is to alternate and so it rests any parts of your backside that are suffereing, and allows blood to oxygenate the bits you were previously sitting on. The lower the pressure difference between bladders the less this differential occurs. You need adequate pressure on the high spot to lift the opposite bits of your backside off the deck.

Once its occured (a red mark, or worse if you dont catch it in time), you should be getting off the chair completely, and laying flat, to remove most of the pressure from your backside. And to turn 4 hours apart, left then right until it has healed and completely gone before attempting to sit again. If not you will end up in surgery...

Because I can move and stand even if only briefly gives me a bias and my opinion must be qualified by my circumstances. My issues are certainly different than others. We are each using the tools we have to the best of our ability. The air cushion has helped me.


May be. But you lose the purpose of its design by just inflating it to low pressure and sitting on it without alternating.

My objection to the higher pressure stems from the chair I'm using it in and the instability the high pressure causes. If I had room for a chair... say with arms... maybe with a seat belt. When blown up harder, the instability causes me to constantly use my legs to keep position, causing fatigue which is so much a problem with MS. I've had so much pressure on my feet at times that my feet have gone numb which then makes me at greater frisk of falls.


You cannot and should not try to have the whole cushion under you.
The problem you have is that you need a foam cushion, with a SMALLER air section that goes only under the bones under your backside. It is stable for me because I need a 20 inch cushion. So I have a firm cushion with the air cells only under the important bits. What you have is too big for you. So you are sitting only on air.

I have this problem. The District Nurse got me a TransAir cushion which is mains powered and 45 X 45cm about 3cm bigger than my normal one. As a result my bum is on the last 2 of 6 tubes. When inflated enough to keep bum off deck (no foam in this one) I end up tilted back as there's not enough weight in my legs to keep the front from pushing up. Ideally you'd be able to regulate pressure to each tube individually. Or just replace the front ones with foam as BM advocates.