PINNED - Lithium battery conversion/info

[Burgerman]

Yes a Nandol version of a 24v bm3 built by his blacksmith friend.

[Gnomatic]

Yes a Nandol version of a 24v bm3 built by his blacksmith friend.

Ah very cool

[Irving]

has Shirley ever shipped the pack out to one of the other users here - he build a 190ah pack for someone and then cant find anyone to ship it to him - Nadol i believe

thats a problem

Shipping by air would be expensive but there are no restrictions on shipping LiFePO4 by air so don't know why there's a problem.

Shipping by sea freight would be cheapest as a part container load and there are many companies that do it; even if Shirley is having a problem Nandol could arrange shipping from his end... when he's well/home

[shirley_hkg]

All the carriers we have contacted asked for a safety certificate from the manufacturer , when we declared shipment of lithium battery .

Surface parcel by post to Lisbon limits to 20kg , where as Nandol's two blocks weight 25kg each .
…
I recently just noticed that the limit to UK is 30kg , so I will try to ask Nandol , when he gets well , if that's OK to enroute to UK / France .

[Irving]

All the carriers we have contacted asked for a safety certificate from the manufacturer , when we declared shipment of lithium battery .

Surface parcel by post to Lisbon limits to 20kg , where as Nandol's two blocks weight 25kg each .
…
I recently just noticed that the limit to UK is 30kg , so I will try to ask Nandol , when he gets well , if that's OK to enroute to UK / France .

You ARE the manufacturer of the battery and can prepare the necessary documentation. You only need the cell manufacturer safety certificate if you're shipping loose cells.

Reading the IATA documentation for Li-ion batteries not installed in, or shipped with, equipment then:
- as long as its carried only on cargo aircraft,
- is charged to <30% capacity;
- doesn't exceed 35kg per consignment;
- is packaged in accordance with UN3480 Packaging Instruction (PI)965; and
- the packaging has certain labels affixed (examples can be found on the IATA website);
then the package must be accompanied by certain declarative documentation stating that it meets the above, again examples are available on the IATA website.

You are better off looking for a sea shipper though as its less messy and considerably cheaper.

[shirley_hkg]

. . . Recent Samsung NOTE 7 incident make me uncomfortable to bring those Li-ion cells on a plane .







Left it aside collecting dust is a waste of these excellent cells .

Make a 3P8S (45ah) add-on pack to replace my vigorous SAMSUNG 18650 2600mah add-on , which was meant for use to travel aboard during holidays .

[flagman1776]

I dn't have a Galaxy phone but I'll be very interested in what they find. Both the recalled phones & the replacements are failing spectacularly... I wonder if it really is a defective battery as claimed in the recall or something else?

[expresso]

Ok i just found out that my Chair S646se - IS NOT FUSED - which means i been using my chair with the 105ah pack with no fuse - turns out the Lead Batteries are fused - the chair is no longer fused - Older models had them fused but not any new chairs -

i got my pack out of the chair now - I believed i was going to only replace Two Power wires on the ends - and now it seems like i have to replace the Main Wires SB50 goin to the chair also with some kind of Fuse -

i am not sure which fuse type or kind Can i use which is not too bulky - i am on the phone with Sunrise medical - asking what size fuse i should need or use etc, - the batteries each has a Fuse setup built in the wiring for each battery and they show 70A


does that i mean i can use just a 70A fuse - or do i need to double that to 140A being its one 24V pack - any input on where i need to put the fuse - Pos Wire only on the Main power going to the Chair Connector ?

any suggestions on fuses to use etc, - please post them - also the see the wiring on the battery looks to be 10 AWG - silicone kind - not sure what the Chair end is - its all covered - i now have to take the top Row off the Pack and rewire a few wires - more than i expected to do -

[Burgerman]

I would use a 100A one.

[expresso]

Ok thanks - Sunrise cant tell me anything - same story liability - but the person was nice and gave me a place to call who can help -

wheelchair wizard - 916-729-8349 - i didnt call - but took the info. i already knew i can get all the help i need here - which would be the best kind to get - ANL fuse - Mini ANL -

i have this kind here already - and some fuses for it - not sure if i have 100A - - i may have 80A - would this kind of Fuse holder work fine ?

https://smile.amazon.com/Bass-Rockers-I ... =100A+fuse

i also seen the same one with a reset breaker on it - - would that be better - never have to change it - just reset it ?

https://smile.amazon.com/Bass-Rockers-I ... =100A+fuse

they all say 12V etc, - do i need 24V model or make no difference - etc, - Fuse is a Fuse right ?

i would have to add this Fuse holder in the Pos. line going to the Main Connector from my Pack to the Chair SB50 -

should i use 6AWG wire now that i have to replace it - if it fits Ok - or not too thick to bend etc, - or just leave it alone at 8 AWG worked fine so far -


http://www.manta.com/c/mmpv2kl/wheelchair-wizard

[expresso]

If the Rnet it rated at 120A - even though it may not give out that much all the time -

does that affect the fuse - shouldnt a Fuse be just as much at least 120A ? the lead batteries came with a fuse in the wiring at 70A - each Battery - does that mean - one 24V battery needs 140A fuse ?

i want to make sure i am protected of course but also dont want it too low and blow a fuse - i be stuck alone somewhere - scary - but now i know theres no fuse - thats scary also i been hitting it hard for 4 solid months this way -

[Burgerman]

https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB185-1 ... +100&psc=1

No breakdowns...

[expresso]

the only thing i worry about is - if the button gets hit by mistake on a bump or something and it cuts off - is that how it would work ? the Red button sticking up - i like that one - no worries about fuses -

i would need to keep it flat on top of the pack - size shows about 2 inches - if true - i could make it work - i just read from a User - it could not handle 50A all the time - constant - what do you think ?

well made but could not run 50 amps continuously so went up to the Bussman 150 - Amazon review

thanks -

[Burgerman]

Download a spec sheet. But a 100A breaker should do it.

[expresso]

http://datasheet.octopart.com/CB185-100 ... 836482.pdf

this is best i find on there website - but dont see what i think i need to know

tell me which you think is best - i want to get one of them and start making wires - want to have it done before tech returns - so he can put it back in my chair -

i dont want it cutting off while i am riding

i dont see anything about how much it handles constant - maybe i should call them tomorrow if they are open

thanks

[Burgerman]

CB185-120 if you really worry... Mount where it can be easily reset anyway!

[expresso]

i was only worried after i read the review that it only handled 50A constant from a Amazon review - i wouldnt have know - or even know if thats correct or not - This user could be wrong or not even know what he is talking about -

i will look that model - if i find it - 120A is safe enough not to blow and not too high that its useless ?

it will be in the battery box on the Pos Wire which connects to the Chair Main power - to get to it - would have to open the box - pull out the tray and it would be right there - shouldnt be a problem for someone to do that if it ever tripped -

my only concern would be if the Red button on the unit - if that gets hit by mistake while its in the chair from riding - it would trip it ? if thats how it works - i wont know how easy it would be to do that untill i get the unit in my hands to look it over -

i just want to get it and start working on it to have it ready for when my tech comes back - i need him to put it back in the chair for me - he did tell me - he would be leaving in Feb. 99 percent sure he will - so that would be it - i doubt the next guy would be as helpful with my custom work on the chair -


https://smile.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB185 ... =CB185-120


it shows 135A on the unit - its also larger overall - the smaller one would be better fit i think -

[expresso]

150A model is actually cheaper -

its either

one of these -

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001PT7XBE/ ... 2PRI0EV1FV

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001PYK5KU/ ... LMSLBNBF48

https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00139FQSS/ ... MI199JPMPU


sizes are different - some are 4 inch long - opposed to 3 inches on the smaller units -

[shirley_hkg]

Are you sure your chair is not fused ?

Quickie used circuit breaker instead , as I knew .

[expresso]

yes 100 percent sure - the new 646 and i am sure the 636 is the same - the chair is no longer fused - the batteries them selves are now fused instead - i confirmed this with Sunrise today - after the tech looked at my battery box and there was no fuse for the chair - what i though was a fuse - and it is a fuse - its for the seating system - lift tilt etc, - its a small 10A fuse - but the chair is NOT FUSED -

the older 626 are fused - those chairs the reset breaker is in the front of the battery cover divider - - and my divider cover is the same item - the hole is there but thats it - just a hole - where the breaker used to be -

my other chairs P222se - has a breaker - - the fuses on the battery - are 70A - there are two of them - one for each battery -

i though the whole time - the fuse i seen in the battery box as the chair fuse - when it was actually the seating lift fuse etc, - if i didnt ask my tech to look at it - i would have never known and would have put the pack back in my chair thinking its fused -

i called sunrise to ask if i needed to use a 140A fuse or a 70A would have been OK - i figure there are two 70A fuses - one for each lead 12V - then i may need 140A for one large 24V pack -

i am considering the 120A fuse which BM suggests - or 150A model - - or even 100A - but i read from one user that it only handles 50A constant - that dosnt sound good to me - not enough - could be wrong -

[Burgerman]

You will find a tiny black fuse in one of the battery cables under some heat shrink or pvc sheath.

This is what I find on almost every chair without a breaker. This is also what you should add, if you don't use a breaker. Look at your old battery cables carefully... Fit one between 100and 150A as here. This was a 100, I swapped it to 150 when I blew the 100. Its about 1 inch long, and 3/8th wide. Dont get a physically bigger one, which are very common. The one below is a stock thin loom.

Ebay, http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... 0&_sacat=0

[shirley_hkg]

I prefer ring terminal & bolt on type to fuse holder too .

[expresso]

Ok - i may try to open my fuse - it has a tight heatshrink over it - dont think i can slide it off - would have to cut it open to see the fuse inside - on the outside theres a 70A sticker -

there is one Fuse on each 12V battery - does that mean - i need to use a 140A fuse on the 24V pack - ?

or just get a 150A fuse and thats it - ?

[expresso]

You will find a tiny black fuse in one of the battery cables under some heat shrink or pvc sheath.

This is what I find on almost every chair without a breaker. This is also what you should add, if you don't use a breaker. Look at your old battery cables carefully... Fit one between 100and 150A as here. This was a 100, I swapped it to 150 when I blew the 100. Its about 1 inch long, and 3/8th wide. Dont get a physically bigger one, which are very common. The one below is a stock thin loom.

Ebay, http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R4 ... 0&_sacat=0

Ok should i just get this one also and heatshrink it - its smaller for sure - or the bussman 150A model ?

150A is what i should use - that would be fine ? - i just want to get something and start making the wire sooner the better -

thanks


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Littelfuse-0meg ... SwMtxXul6s

[expresso]

where can i find those boot covers ? when i search i come up with nothing that looks like those in the picture

those would be easier if ever needed to change the fuse - or else i have to heatshrink over it and cut it open if ever needed to change fuse -

[Burgerman]

Dunno where to get those pvc covers. Use small and large heatshrink.

Also the ones I linked will work, but are 4 inches long! Much bigger than the ones I have here.

THESE are the small ones http://www.littelfuse.com/products/fuse ... s/498.aspx

Search for midi bolt down 100 or 150A fuse. Much smaller with 5 or 6mm holes. So small you will not know they are there. I use these all over the place like my charger looms and van etc. EG Amazon https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems ... +MIDI+FUSE

[expresso]

Ok heatshrink is fine - i dont think they are really 4 inches long - i think those specs are for the whole package - i think the fuse itself is about 2 1/2 inches long by .75 inch wide -

i will look for the smaller ones - would i be able to bolt the smaller ones to 8 awg wire lug with 1/4 hole ? i would be using those on the wire ends - and then bolt to the fuse - can i use them with the smaller fuse ?

so i guess the breaker is off the list ? and i should be fine using a 150A fuse ?

[Burgerman]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Littelfuse-0498 ... SwNRdX~Zwk

Even so, thats big. The midi ones are smaller.

[expresso]

https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Systems ... +MIDI+FUSE

i will order these - can have them here in a day or two at most so i can see the size - what size screw nut would i need to bolt it to my 1/4 lug - with locker washer -

will do a quick inventory check to see if i need more wiring- lugs etc, while i am at it - i will stay with the 8 AWG - to keep it the same - i may be even able to add the fuse in my current wire - if i dont make a mistake when i cut it etc,

or else have to make a new main power cable

I am safe with the 150A ? this one comes a pack of Two - good deal


in the event i have to make a new cable for the main power etc, - would there be any benefit using 6 AWG wiring as opposed to 8 AWG ? 6 will be almost twice as thick and harder to bent i would think - i would have to buy new 6 awg lugs and wiring -

if theres no real benefit - its not worth the work and expense - what do you think -

[Burgerman]

http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/midi-link-fuses.html Mine come from here. Much cheaper than amazon.

Some have 6mm hole. Some have 5.5mm hole. I usually use M6 bolt/nut, but may need a drill to run through. M5 bolt/nut will be fine. Total length is just 40mm.