Quick question on new rebuild.

[segreen]

Hi all, can anyone tell me what the 2 orange wires are for on a F55 Free wheel assembly part/unit? I've connected the cables to each motor to get it in and out of gear ok. Just leaves the 2 orange wires with (I think they're called bullet connectors, 1 male, 1 female). Any ideas were they go?

Second question, When I turn my controller on the wheels shudder as they move, (my guess is that the brakes are on, although you hear them click on and off) Any ideas?

Thanks Steve

[JoeC]

I don't know about the cable, but if the motors shudder, you might want to try reducing the load compensation.

[Burgerman]

I can shed a little light...

The orange (yellow) wires go to the electromagnetic brakes.
If you do not connect them up then the brake will not release. Power put the brake "off".

As you touch the joystick the brake recieves a fixed 12v from the controller. It holds off the brake as you drive or turn. As you return the stick to the centre they are released (power stops) and they clamp on. Without them connected two things will normally happen...

a) the controller will show a fault... May be disabled in software.
b) you are driving with the brake "on" and will damage the brake and the motor..

The latest 4 pole motors are "lumpy" at very slopw speeds as you "feel" the magnetic poles as the motor rotates. Although its pretty slight.

[segreen]

Thanks guys, Burgerman you couldn't post me a photo on eactly where they go as its still not too clear to me. I don't have much experience of pulling chairs apart, if you know what I mean.

[Burgerman]

dont really understand what you mean by where they go?

If you look at a motor loom cable at the motor end, there are two spade connectors and two bullet connectors.
You cant actually get it wrong?

The wires on the motor cable can be blue, brown, red but they have the matching bullet connectors.

See just about here durung build http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... uction.jpg

and

http://www.wheelchairdriver.com/images- ... /loom2.jpg close...

[Burgerman]

JUST realised you are using a DX controller on a copy of my fat tyred chair. You just need to check the old f55 wiring loom to see where they go, I dont know how they connect physically at the module end, but JoeC will as he uses one. And he will be along is a min

[segreen]

Burgerman, after re-reading your post, I don't think I've explained my self properly. I'm not talking about the motor cables I'm taking about the part/unit that has a lever on it for puting the motors in and out of gear. I've connected the cable to the motor so it can go in and out of gear but there are two orange cables coming off the unit and I can't work out were they go.

If you look at the F55 parts manual you'll see the unit/part for putting it in/out gear with the two wires.

Is this any clearer?

Steve

[JoeC]

Here I am. What would make this much clearer is if you can post a picture or two.

Regardless, wiring the DX module is exactly the same as wiring a Pilot+ module. The two fat wires go to the large contacts, the two skinny wires go to the small round (probably gold plated) contacts. The large wires are for the motor current, the small wires are for the E-brake current.

If you wanted, you could remove the parking brakes completely. You would be able to use the Wizard PC programmer to make everything right and have no errors, but you'd need to physically remove the parking brakes before going that route. Just keeping the levers flipped would be a bad idea.

Are you starting with a pre-built motor connector with wires to splice, or are you plugging the contacts into the plastic housing on your own?

[segreen]

Ok guys, your still not on my wave length Look at my photos and you'll hopefully see the gear lever part and the two orange wires just dangling.

[JoeC]

The plug that goes into the module has four contacts. Two big ones for the motors, two small ones for the brake. Is that clear yet? The ends of the wires shown are not compatible with any control module, so you'll need to cut them off and install the appropriate contacts, or splice them to a pre-built cable assembly. If they don't reach where you want to put the module, you need to splice extension wires.

[segreen]

Thanks Joe, I think you just might have switched the light on for me On the DX2 module, do these wires go into the spare bus socket, next to the joystick bus lead?

[JoeC]

No, take a look at the place where the motor plugs in- it should look like this:

-:-

Where the "-" is a flat connector, the ":" is a pair of round pins, and the second "-" is the other flat connector. They're laid out just like that- two round pins on top of each other, and one flat piece on either side. Does that look like what you see?

[segreen]

Yes, I understand you but the 2 wires I'm struggling with come from gear lever part (for putting the motors in and out of gear). I've connected the cables to the clutch's so the motors go in and out of gear. But the 2 orange cable look like their some sort of electric connections.

The motors are connected to the module as is the brake. When I press the joystick I can hear the brakes click on and off.

Make sense?

[JoeC]

Yes, I think it makes sense now- and I'm starting to get an idea of what they might be.

Can you measure the resistance across them, and check out if they have continuity to any other connections? Does their connection change at all when you move the brake levers back and forth? I'm not familiar with the F55, but some chairs have a separate connection to a microswitch in the brake area that makes an open circuit when the brake is disengaged. In my case, the brake is in series with this switch. When the brakes are manually disengaged with the levers, the brakes are also electrically disconnected. The control module senses the open circuit, and activates a drive inhibit so that the chair doesn't drive when the levers are in push mode. This prevents the chair from taking off under power when someone is pushing the chair around by the rear handles.

Is this guess right that the wires are a zero-ish resistance with lever in one position, and an open circuit in the other position?

If you consider this lack of a drive inhibit in push mode to be a safety issue, then wire them in series with the parking brakes. If you don't care, just fold them up with a wire tie to keep them out of the way. You might change your mind some day, otherwise I'd say it's OK to cut them off.

Did you get through the motor shuddering issue yet?

[Burgerman]

I get it...

Those wires are supposed to be connected in "series" with a motor brake connection. I just cut them off. All they do is stop the chair driving by causing an error when the freewheel lever Lifts the brake off.

That way I can manually flip the lever and get no brake or clicking and still drive about without an error should I want to.

Take side cutters and Snip!

[segreen]

Thanks Joe, unable to test them as I'm on my own and I don't have any knowledge about test electrical circuits etc. As for the shuddering, no not jet.
Steve

[segreen]

Thanks guys, just snip!

[Burgerman]

>>> I've connected the cable to the motor so it can go in and out of gear but there are two orange cables coming off the unit and I can't work out were they go.

That lever pulls a cable that manually releases the motors brakes. It does the same as the 12v that the brake needs. It does not take it out of "gear" as such. The motor spins as you push just the same. The brake holds it pretty solid if its on. On means no cable pulling, or no power to the electro magnet. Your cable routing looks a little "difficult" incidentally! I presume once completely built and tested it might be stripped, powder coated, bolts replaced with stainless, etc? Maybe its just me and my ocd!

[segreen]

Burgerman, the chair at the moment is only in a state of 'rough' build so I can make double sure that seat height, footplate height etc etc is spot on. I'm making up new wiring harness and the aluminium will be annodised and then everything is getting powder coated. I too am OCD with regards to perfection.

I'm also very new at this as you already know, I keep asking you so many questions. When everything is finished I'll supply you with photos, measurements and spec's.

One quick question gold battery terminals, good or bad? Thinking of using them for my new harness and batteries.

Thanks

[Burgerman]

Wont hurt anything. But its also not nessassary. The brass ones are fine, the gold is for boy racers with daft sterios as they think they can hear a difference!

Heavy quality cables or doubled up cables like Joec is doing is way more important. The brake release on mine goes under the bottom of the chair and is fastened to it to maintain a smooth curve. Yours looks a bit tortured how it is?

Do you know there are around 6 clones in various states of construction around the globe! That I know of. That alone should tell the manufacturers something...

[segreen]

Tomorrow I'm getting the controller programmed so I can have myfirst run out in it, then its stripping it down and powdercoated etc. Won't be too long now until finished - can't wait!

[JoeC]

If you hadn't programmed it yet, no wonder the motors were shuddering! I'll be eager to hear how the Dynamic system compares to what you're used to. The user manual is moderately useful for figuring out what parameters change.

[segreen]

Just got back after having to leave my chair at the dealers. Two brand new motors not working properly and need returning to Sunrise Medical, can you believe it? The brakes were staying party on and causing all this vicious shuddering, no wonder I couldn't figure it out!

Hopefully I'm gonna get a couple of new balanced motors back, and then it's the powder coaters!

[JoeC]

Did you double check the brake voltage? It can be set for 12 or 24 volts. If it was set wrong, there would be trouble.

[segreen]

Someone at the workshop did I think, what should they be 24v?

[Lord Chatterley]

Re segreens mods.

Has anyone located - for their own private use - a DX2 programmer?

I suspect that there must be several different levels of programmer - I gather even Burgerman has not managed to get a P & G programmer to recalibrate the battery level indicator and he has 3 different models!

Bearing in mind the difficulty in obtaining the right level of programmer for a P & G module, what level of programmer is available for the DX2?

I was thinking of converting to the DX2 but I seriously doubt any dealer is going to configure the settings to my preferences and I am therefore somewhat reluctant to fork out 800 Sterling in order to achieve performance levels designed to accommodate the lifestyle of grannies.

[Burgerman]

Someone at the workshop did I think, what should they be 24v?

12 on an F55s 4 pole motor. I think... Will check later.

If you use 24 then the brake will release and the magnet will get very hot and waste power. It may burn out.
If it needs 24 and you use 12 then the brake will possibly not release or may not release properly and you will overheat the brake as you drive, and waste power and cause the motors and controller to overheat...

You dont want to get it wrong!

[Burgerman]

Re segreens mods.

I suspect that there must be several different levels of programmer - I gather even Burgerman has not managed to get a P & G programmer to recalibrate the battery level indicator and he has 3 different models!.

I have had and gave away a pp1a...
I have a pp1b engineering level one, it can adjust battery calibration.
And also an OEM PC programmer that can do a few extra tricks as well as remove a few fences. It too can recalibrate the battery meter.

Bearing in mind the difficulty in obtaining the right level of programmer for a P & G module, what level of programmer is available for the DX2?

Two I think. Dealer (end user) and OEM (the one we need)

I was thinking of converting to the DX2 but I seriously doubt any dealer is going to configure the settings to my preferences and I am therefore somewhat reluctant to fork out 800 Sterling in order to achieve performance levels designed to accommodate the lifestyle of grannies

Its highly unlikely a dealer would have an OEM version anyway. Well I can buy one and will be doing so when I build my next bigger batteried 8mph plus version of the fat tyred powerchair... As well as a DX2 system with the most basic joystick. I want it to be small and control the chair only! So can spend as long as I want fixing your chair. Where are you? i forget what everyone is doing... What chair? There are two people here cloning or building something similar to my own chair, and another half a dozen that email occasionally doing the same. I get confused!


Burgerman...

[JoeC]

Re segreens mods.

Has anyone located - for their own private use - a DX2 programmer?

I suspect that there must be several different levels of programmer - I gather even Burgerman has not managed to get a P & G programmer to recalibrate the battery level indicator and he has 3 different models!

Bearing in mind the difficulty in obtaining the right level of programmer for a P & G module, what level of programmer is available for the DX2?

I was thinking of converting to the DX2 but I seriously doubt any dealer is going to configure the settings to my preferences and I am therefore somewhat reluctant to fork out 800 Sterling in order to achieve performance levels designed to accommodate the lifestyle of grannies.

Yes, I purchased the OEM level programmer. I can't remember if I bought direct or from my local vendor, but I definitely received a quote from Dynamic directly so they would have sold it to me. The key is that I approached them as an engineer working on a chair used for sport, I was very clear on what I needed and why I needed it. I made them comfortable that I wasn't going to hurt myself or anyone else with it, made it clear that I understood that some things must be adjusted with extreme caution, and that I alone am responsible for my mistakes. They have been very helpful to me every time I've called them on the phone for support.

It may help to place the order for the PC programmer, module, cable connector kits (order an extra- trust me) and joystick all as one order. If they give you any trouble, you can always say, "Gee, maybe I had better have another look at the P&G R-net this time". I paid about $300 for my OEM programmer. It was the same price as the less capable ones, so make sure you're specific and check what you receive. Also, when you run the software you can specify whether you want to use full OEM access, or some lesser level such as "Dealer" or "Lite". I've seen the software spontaneously change once or twice, and it was frustrating until I realized that. It may have had something to do with bringing my laptop out of sleep mode- I don't see this problem very often.

I can change the battery gauge, and all sorts of other useful things. There are a few more things that I wish that I could change, but that's because we're using this for sports. It's very unlikely that you won't be able to get a highly drivable chair with the OEM level Dynamic Wizard PC programmer with the latest DX2 control module and joystick.

[Burgerman]

Its unlikely the motors were faulty. The brakes are dead simple. Nothing really to go wrong. You have the brake set wrong or disabled in the programming, or not connected or connected wrong...