New chair!

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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 08 Feb 2017, 02:43

Burgerman wrote:
Shirley, theres nothing to go wrong! 2 big bearings?

One BIG in the middle , and a smaller one at the end .

The hall sensor PCB is simple and easy to fix , if aged .

You made the right choice . :D
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 08 Feb 2017, 02:59

I have been using brushless hobby stuff for 15 years. I know how good they are. But its the lack of easy access to cheap new stuff/controllers etc that stopped me. And even now 8mph limit.

But I happened across a UK chair being stripped and sold at sensible prices. (read £50 per motor for MK2) and £60 for a late DX brushless controller. So I couldn't resist... :o

And also because I wanted a new NHS bought production chair with electric everything for occasional use due to pressure issues. And in 2017 why would anyone ever buy a brushed chair? Brushed motor technology is a decade and a half out of date! It has no place in an EV this century. It continues in powerchairs only because of user ignorance/cheapness/availability without having to do any development work. Its too easy to just carry on with lead / brushed and so we are treated with contempt.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 08 Feb 2017, 03:08

Join the club . :lol:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4236
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 08 Feb 2017, 11:39

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262815766473? ... EBIDX%3AIT
Controller, DX bus, 100A updated, 60 UK pounds!

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262815833353? ... EBIDX%3AIT
TWO motors, for £100...

And 2 bus cables thrown in...

And a factory REFURB as new, REM 24 SD control pod £35 from Germany.

Full system, £195 as new COMPLETE! How can you not? :D

If you want a lighting and actuator module, £39 unused! http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNUSED-Invaca ... SwyQtVl~No I bought one.
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Re: New chair!

Postby stevelawiw » 08 Feb 2017, 15:21

I've been using GB-HD chair from April 2013 and so far I'm on my 3rd controller but original motors, and they were 2nd hand when I acquired them. Since the second controller failure I've increased the cooling with 2 small fans which take air directly away from the controller. that was over 2 years ago so I'm hoping that's made the difference. The trouble with a controller failure is that there is no warning and it's a complete failure, no struggling home on half power you're just stuck!

John I'm looking forward to you getting your brushless chair reprogrammed to see what you think of it compared to your brushed ones. I've always been impressed with the control you have through small gaps. With the direct drive of the brushless I'm wondering how the torque will compare to the geared brushed.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 08 Feb 2017, 16:54

Torque?
Early ones, least.
MK2 ones, much better.
MK2 PLUS ones are apparently improved. Thats quite recent, and was applied during the 6 or 7 years the x-plore has existed. I think. But look much the same other than the connecting plugs and a few tiny differences. So dunno yet! May be marketing torque!

Turn acceleration cannot be increased past 70 which bothers me a bit. But theres a scaler for this on the motor parameters with the factory software... So it can be increased from its current 25 upwards...

Also, technically you shouldn't... But you can set boost current to 120A! That will give a 20A boost over the 100 that the motor and the controller is rated at. Thats also an extra 20% torque boost. Will it hurt? I doubt it. It may demagnetize motors faster if you keep doing it endlessly. But they seem to last forever at the moment.

Adding a fan is easy on the storm explore. A 92mm computer fan will fit in the rear cover with a nice chrome grill or drill a few holes. And drill a few holes in the bottom! http://www.lifestyleandmobility.co.uk/w ... X_OF01.jpg
Removed http://www.activemob.co.uk/media/catalo ... orm4-8.jpg
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Re: New chair!

Postby Heygnow » 08 Feb 2017, 17:52

They look ok. But 300 for a couple of bits of bar. I can make one thats at least as good in an hour! I think... 8-)

Shirley, theres nothing to go wrong! 2 big bearings?


300 is a lot , think I pad $114 when I purchased. I will try to find the link


http://www.retract4.com/instructions.html

The good is that it is infinitely adjustable as far as angles, tension and height depending on vertical shafts used.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Heygnow » 08 Feb 2017, 17:56

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Re: New chair!

Postby Williamclark77 » 09 Feb 2017, 17:51

shirley_hkg wrote:
Williamclark77 wrote:Pictures! I gave up on modifying chairs. It's more difficult for me to fix one up properly than just start from scratch and build my own how I want it. <br abp="1016"><br abp="1017">I look forward to this project, especially the motors. How do they interface? As in, what type of connection, how many wires, and what gages are they? Way farther down the pipeline (I don't plan to even start this year) I plan to do a whole new outdoor high speed oriented build using either these motors and 48v, a CVT type gearbox that I'll design and build, or a high/low range auto shift. <br abp="1018"><br abp="1019">Anybody even know the source manufacturer of these motors? I would doubt that Invacare designed and built these in house. <br abp="1020">.
<br abp="1021"><br abp="1022"> Too bad to hear that you won't make chair any more .<br abp="1023"><br abp="1024">There is endless supply of these motors on ebay , at $250 /pair . Why bother to get new one ?<br abp="1025"><br abp="1026">I've bought dozens of chairs with GB , and extra dozens of GB motors , 1st / 2nd generstions since 2004 , and NONE of them Damaged On Arrival .<br abp="1027"><br abp="1028">They are indestructible to any sensible user .<br abp="1029"><br abp="1030">However , we may have to wait a year or two to get get the new version one as parts , like BM 's , that claim to have more speed, torque and big leap 38% efficiency .


You misunderstood. I will not modify an existing chair or use a controller at 24 volts for my personal use. Too much trouble for the end result.

I would like to build an all new chair using these GB motors and higher voltages though.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2017, 22:18

OK. Control pod swing away, will make my own, or fit a sunrise one. Waste of 200 pounds!!! Thats going on ebay. Pile of crap...

Just took a look at the follow on problem. The wimpy wobbly arm and its mounting. It flexes about, causing the same problem as the wobbly swing away. How the hell do people drive these things? No wonder all stock chairs need all that delay dialed in.

So I disassembled both arms, and fitted BOTH uprights and sliders into the seat rail on one side. That works, looks neat. Doesn't wobble at all unless you swing on it! Woohoo. Easy fix. More expense. I need 2x arm uprights, and bottom and top brackets complete. Then we have solid arms I can use to transfer, and stable enough to allow accurate control once programmed. God knows how much that will cost.

Also if you turn the top brackets 180 degrees you can move the arm in 2 inches each side making the chair some FOUR inches narrower with a given cushion. I would love to know what they are on. Its just the same with every manufacturer. They are just couldn't care less. Anything goes. So now need to order 6 parts.

Next, need to look at the power recline, and find out why its got freeplay in it...
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Re: New chair!

Postby hank » 10 Feb 2017, 22:31

Thought it would be in a million bits by now. :shock: :lol:
Then replaced with stainless screws,rosejointed etc
Re greased and put back properly.
If like me, It will do your head in till you Sort it. :roll:
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 10 Feb 2017, 22:35

Correct but I am no my bed having bits passed to me... And someone else wobbling stuff! Laid on bed, covered in allen keys and screwdrivers, with a cushion wedged in turned 45 degrees while I eat my special fried rice just delivered... So its a half hearted sort of fix. And I need parts.

Invacare have had a decade to figure all this out. But in common with all the manufacturers, they just don't. The last 10 percent of development or finishing detail that turns a wobbly uncomfortable annoying unusable mess that most users have to suffer, into a tight, taught & properly programmed chair that is configured correctly.

Why do you suppose this is? One or two tiny things turn an excellent chair into an unusable mess that most users do not like. It costs them sales if nothing else. It means that every demo chair I try, or test at a show, or other users chair, has to be evaluated as I figure out how it would really be once I fix its issues...
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Re: New chair!

Postby hank » 10 Feb 2017, 22:46

I know the feeling John.
Mind willing all planned out but body not. :roll:
So frustrating having to wait for help
with projects.
If its not that, its waiting for parts
to turn up.
Good job we have a sence of humour
Good luck with new Chair. 8-)
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 11 Feb 2017, 20:59

It came with MK gel, about 90% charged. And one of these chargers. I have 3 already. Every one does something different... So this one is a mystery till I measure it. But its already wrong! It charged for 1 hour and said ready. The battery was at 12.75V each. So it should have been on charge for at least 3 to 5 hours and then to float... Dont know what its CV voltage is.

So gives the user the impression it charges fast. While destroying their batteries.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 12 Feb 2017, 04:30

That looks like AGM , rather .

A pair of healthy GEL would stay at 26.30 or higher , unpluged overnight .
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 12 Feb 2017, 11:26

The last time these were charged was in germany 3 weeks ago I suspect.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 12 Feb 2017, 13:38

Have you tested its speed ?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 12 Feb 2017, 13:41

NOPE. Bed...
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 16 Feb 2017, 22:38

Brush-less motors look a lot more businesslike with 110/80-8 tyres... And widened rims! 50mm spacers.
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Re: New chair!

Postby hank » 16 Feb 2017, 22:41

Love it when a plan comes together. :D 8-)
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Re: New chair!

Postby ex-Gooserider » 21 Feb 2017, 06:45

I don't get the idea of swing-aways... What do they do for you? I have my joystick rigidly mounted to the end of the arm on the chair, the mount puts the pod slightly below the top of the armrest cushion, so that the top of the bellows is about even with the top of the cushion. When driving my arm is on or just above the armrest, with my palm sitting on the end of the cushion and my thumb and fore-fingers working the stick (with no knob, just the bare shaft)...

Works well except when I get up to tables that are the wrong height, at which point I cup the pod with my fingers and lift the arm while driving with the pad of my thumb to let the arm slide up over the table while my knees go under...

I've tried playing a bit with swing-aways and they seemed to me like just adding slop to the mount and putting the pod in places I didn't want it...

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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 21 Feb 2017, 10:23

and my thumb and fore-fingers working the stick (with no knob, just the bare shaft)...


Read that carefully...
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 22 Feb 2017, 15:49

Swing aways? When driving, its in the way...

OK Tyre widening. or rather BRUSHLESS rim widening, to take a 110/80 or a 120/70 tyre.
For 120/70 - 8 tyre, you need 5x 50mm spacers (ebay), 75mm M8 cap screw/allen bolts, with 1 flat washer under the head of each. That gives a 100mm or 3.9 inch wide rim.
For 110/80 - 8 tyre, you need 5x 40mm spacers and 65mm cap screws, flat washers. That gives you an 90mm wide rim, 3.5 inch wide rim.

This is the 50mm spacers, but with the 110 tyre, so over stretched BY 10mm. Its not staying this way.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 22 Feb 2017, 15:53

Then order a strip of 1mm alloy sheet. Same width as the gap+ the indented smaller diameter part of the wheel cut to size, that is the same diameter as the indented part of the black drum, x pie, and bend in a circle. Use alloy brazing rods to join up, and then to attach to the spacers. To make a ring with spacers attached. You are done! Bolt on stock wider outer rim.
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Re: New chair!

Postby hank » 22 Feb 2017, 18:26

Tons better than skinny tyres. 8-)
Looks ok on rim from pics, Not to stretched.
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 22 Feb 2017, 19:03

Those are 110/80 x 8 and stretched slightly too much. Need 10mm less so really need the 50mm spacers swapping for 40mm ones or even 45. I have both. So will do it later. Or the rim will get scuffed against stuff... But I did it just to show how I was widening them. They are for the stock chair, so adding the even wider 120 tyres, will add total 20mm extra. So not doing that! Its another inch... as it is with the 110 tyres we end up at 27.25 inches from the stock 24.8 width. So to keep a sensible width, 3.5 rims and 110 tyres! These are all the same diameter as stock, just wider, lower pressures. But much better stiffer construction and tougher to puncture. Also rated for speed and road use.

Stock 3.00 8 tyres are generally feeble low quality. A bit too much like bicycle tyres for my liking. And this is a heavy chair. We are looking at 200kg or more, empty! Prefer something more substantial. Even the tubes are branded and designed for heavy use on trailer tyres. About 3x as heavy as wheelchair 3 x 8 ones.
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Re: New chair!

Postby rlnguy » 22 Feb 2017, 21:04

I used the same method some years ago, on a project-worked great for tube type tires.
Did I miss something? or are you not going tubeless on these?
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 23 Feb 2017, 02:41

I could if I went 10 inch. On 8 where the motor itself forms half the rim, its hard to do. It would mean sealing my home made bedroom built parts when bolting together. If I hada machine shop? Easy. But I dont so tubes will have to do this time.
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Re: New chair!

Postby shirley_hkg » 23 Feb 2017, 03:15

Burgerman wrote: If I hada machine shop? Easy. But I dont so tubes will have to do this time.



Oh, NO ! You deem to start all over again . Tubeless please .

I can make that extended rim half , inexpensively , if you could send a drawing , and figure out the sealing .

Otherwise , go for 10” rims with short sidewall tyres .
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Re: New chair!

Postby Burgerman » 23 Feb 2017, 04:06

Drawing? Beermat! Once I do this then a drawing. Because then I will know best measurements.
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