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Welcome
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ONLY:
Detailed Full PowerChair Related ONLY Menu HERE
2. VEHICLE
ONLY:
Detailed Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles ONLY menu HERE
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ELSE:
Detailed Menu of Everything else HERE!
MY OWN
VEHICLES:
Dodge
Grand Caravan
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MY HOME
BUILT ULTIMATE POWERCHAIRS:
My
SLIGHTLY Modified
Improved Powerchair
Part
1 |
2 | 3
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4 |
5 |
6
My VERY Modified Off Road & All terrain DO ALL
Powerchair!
Part 1
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3
MISCELLANEOUS
POWERCHAIR RELATED:
What
Goes Wrong Power Wheelchairs
Powerchair Tyres
Drive your Powerchair by Radio Control
Powerchairs & Range
Off Road DO ALL Indoor & Outdoor Powerchairs
Off Road ONLY Outdoor Powerchairs & 4x4
Page
1
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2
Manual or Electric Wheelchair?
Why ALL Powerchairs
NEED to be Off Road Capable!
Choosing a Suitable Powerchair
Wheelchair Width
BATTERY
AND ELECTRICAL (POWERCHAIRS & SCOOTERS + MOTOR VEHICLES):
Batteries for Both Vans & Power Wheelchairs
Inverters & Chargers
Very flexible charger!
Charging Batteries
Fast Charge Your Power
Wheelchair
Which batteries to buy
"DRIVE
FROM A WHEELCHAIR" VEHICLES:
Dodge
Grand Caravan 1
Dodge
Grand Caravan 2
Dodge Grand Caravan 3
Dodge Grand Caravan 4
Latest 2008 2009 2010
Disabled Converted Dodge Chrysler And Voyager Minivans
Chrysler Voyager
Entervan Diesel
Suzuki Wagon R
More Here
Mercedes Vito
-
soon!
Kia Sedona - soon!
INSURANCE:
Modified Disabled
Vehicle Insurance
Breakdown Cover
USED VEHICLES & OTHER
EQUIPMENT:
Disabled Adapted Cars
WHEELCHAIR TRANSPORT
& DRIVE BY TRANSFERRING:
VW Caravelle
Dodge
Grand Caravan can be used to transport up to 4 Wheelchair Seated Occupants
Fiat Doblo
Renault Kangoo
-
soon!
Citroen Berlingo - soon!
Citroen Dispatch
- soon!
Kia Sedona
-
soon!
Volkswagen Sharan
Mercedes Vaneos
Toyota Hiace
Fiat Multiplas (Wheelchair
passenger travels in the front)
Kangoo ASSIST (wheelchair
passenger transfers & drives)
ESSENTIAL DISABLED
EQUIPMENT STUFF:
Understanding
Grabbers
Puncture proof tyres
Run Flat tyres
Tyre Weld Aerosol
Fuses!
Spare Key
Wheelchair Ramps
Small Generator
Tools!
VEHICLE ADAPTATIONS:
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Systems etc
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Powerchair "Control Systems" E.G. Penny & Giles, Dynamic, etc.
If
like me you have an interest in these things, since you want power, speed, huge
controllability you will want to learn about the BEST most powerful available
systems.
And
importantly the "differences" in them relating to Powerchair performance. This
page is only concerned with this one aspect. The manufacturers own sites
are a better place to see the "range" of add-on's lighting, actuators, fancy
screens and other capabilities.
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Over the past ten or twelve years
I have been building my own or very heavily modifying various powerchairs
because I wasn't happy about their comfort, indoor and outdoor capability, power
(torque) or speeds.
Whilst doing this I learned a lot!
I have had very involved discussions with tech guys from P & G (Penny and Giles)
who make rather a lot of these things! The P and G ones we are interested in
here are the top end units such as the Pilot Plus, R-Net controllers. Pilot Plus
is still available but superseded by the newer R-Net design.
Penny & Giles Controllers
All of the different Penny and Giles power modules from 50 to 120
amps can output that "Amp rating" to each motor. But only to ONE
motor at once! That is a MAXIMUM total value. Oops... This
effectively means that the 100 Amp units are really just 50 Amps when you need
the power on a ramp for eg. They are effectively only HALF of their rated vales. We are
only concerned with the best systems here. So only the 100 amp (or 120 Amp) units is
even worth
considering. The rest are for slow, or low end powerchairs.
This means that when trying to climb a ramp into a van or cross a
threshold into a building you only have 50 amps per motor (total theoretical) to
propel you. And that depends on the batteries being able to provide this 50 + 50
(total100) Amp
current while maintaining their full voltage...
In reality group 24 Gel batteries like MK's for e.g. have trouble doing this even
when fully charged and new. They really cant do it when old or a little
discharged. So your 100 amp Pilot Plus Controller really only gives about 40
amps to each motor at best... Proven with my trusty Clamp Ammeter. That's why
you get stuck on curbs, ramps & thresholds with little power or control in difficult situations.
The the newer 120 amp R-Net controllers behave in exactly the same but with a
100 amp output that is boosted to 120 for a short time. (10 seconds) So it can
take 120 amps from your batteries and deliver 60 amps to each motor max at the
same time. Batteries allowing... The same applies to VR2 and VSI
controllers too! And some of those are just 50 Amps to begin with!
So how does the Dynamic DX (80 Amp) and DX2
(90 Amp) Systems compare?
Well much better! Both these controllers are rated "lower"
(80 amps and 90 amps) but use two completely separate power controller "channels
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This means that the 80 Amp Dynamic DX controller can output 80 amps to
each motor. But it can do it simultaneously! That makes it more powerful than
all of the Penny and Giles controllers.
That means it can
draw the full 2x 80 amps from your batteries. So the 80 amp unit should really
be called a DX 160!
The DX2 can do 90 Amps. (that is it can do 90 Amps to each motor
simultaneously) But can do 120 amps per motor for 1.5 seconds as a "boost".
Or can take 180 amps from your batteries. Or more with the 1.5 seconds "Boost" But Gel batteries will not allow that.
This means it can take a full 240 amps from your batteries. Or at
least it will try. But Gel batteries wont actually allow this. The voltage will
drop fast and the safety circuitry inside the controller will just drop the current
demand while they recover and it can only do it for 1.5 seconds in any case...
So in real world use with Gel batteries there will be little
benefit. Over the bigger Penny and Giles controllers. However swap batteries to Hawker Odyssey or Optima AGM batteries that
can produce
this much current and the benefits in torque and power, especially off road and
ramps, or with tall gearing are obvious to any spirited user.
So when I say in an article that 100
amps is minimum I am referring to Penny and Giles control systems.
With Dynamic DX and DX2 (and other makes that can produce their rated output PER
MOTOR SIMULTANEOUSLY) then 70 to 90 amps is ample for most purposes!
So, if you are buying a new powerchair, which is the best system? It
definitely determines which powerchair I would buy!
On this site we are only interested in the best. Low end weedy and frankly cheap
"nasty" powerchairs are of no real interest.
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The maximum number of amps your controller can provide is very important.
MORE is always better even if you never actually use them or need that extra
torque to turn or climb a ramp. They are simply a "reserve" of power for the odd
occasion that its important.
But for a manufacturer to fit a "big" Amp controller they need to make sure that
the batteries and battery cables can and will survive that bigger load. And that
the motors and gearboxes have enough strength to survive the extra torque. And
that in fact a stalled or almost stalled motor actually draws that much current.
Meaning in some cases a heavier motor.
All of which ads up to COST for them...
Bear all of that in mind when looking at powerchairs. Then you will see why some
chairs have 50 amp controllers... You want the BIGGEST amp controller you can
get for the best performance on ramps etc while maintaining safe control. All of this
stuff above is subject to
Correct Programming!
And as we saw
above its not even that simple because some systems do not do what it says on
the tin, hence this table below so you can see what is what!
SYSTEM - Read details its very important!
- Some systems have HALF their expected power! Especially check out
the Dynamics Systems.
Penny & Giles -
Pilot Plus
100
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100 Amps
Total System Maximum
from batteries, or
100
to each motor but just one at a time.
However maximum is 50 amps to each
motor simultaneously! Oops -
this is why thresholds and steep ramps are difficult with loss of
control at times.
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Penny & Giles -
Pilot Plus
80
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80 Amps
Total System Maximum
from batteries, or
80
to each motor but just one at a time.
However maximum is 40 amps to each
motor simultaneously! Oops -
this is why thresholds and steep ramps are difficult with loss of
control at times.
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Penny & Giles -
Pilot Plus
50
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50 Amps
Total System Maximum
from batteries, or
50
to each motor but just one at a time.
However maximum is 25 amps to each
motor simultaneously! Oops -
this is why thresholds and steep ramps are difficult with loss of
control at times.
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Penny & Giles -
R-Net
120 |
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100 Amps Total System Maximum but with 10 second extra 20 Amp "boost"
from batteries, or
100
(120 for 10 seconds) to each motor but
just one at a time.
However maximum is 50 Amps (60 for 10
Secs) to each motor simultaneously!
Oops - this is why thresholds and steep
ramps are difficult with loss of control at times. This systems
has fancy colour screens and added gadget inter-connectivity but
otherwise is much the same as the Pilot Plus System with an added short
term "boost" capability. And a very small gain in efficiency.
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Penny & Giles -
R-Net
LOW Amp Output
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? Amps Total System Maximum but with 10
second extra 20 Amp "boost" from
batteries, or
?
(?+20 for 10 seconds) to each motor but
just one at a time.
However maximum is half max Amps (for
10 Secs) to each motor simultaneously!
Oops - this is why thresholds and steep
ramps are difficult with loss of control at times. This systems
has fancy colour screens and added gadget inter-connectivity but
otherwise is much the same as the Pilot Plus System with an added short
term "boost" capability. And a very small gain in efficiency. No
figures for this system as I don't have the specs here. But you don't
want one anyway! Offers NO advantages...
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Dynamic
DX 80 |
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160 Amps Total System Maximum from
batteries, or
80 Amps
to each motor simultaneously!
That means more power than any sized P & G controller on ramps etc.
Better control.
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Dynamic
DX2 90 |
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180 Amps Total System Maximum but with 1.5 Seconds of an extra 20 Amp
"boost" per channel so 220 Amps Max
from batteries, or
80 Amps (100 for 1.5 secs)
to each motor simultaneously!
That means more power than any sized P & G controller on ramps etc. And
better control.
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Penny & Giles -
VR2 50, 60, 70, 90 Amp Systems |
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50, 60, 70, 90
Amps
Total System Maximum
from batteries, or
full rate amount
to each motor but just one at a time.
Only the
90 Amp unit is worth looking at for low end Powerchairs.
However maximum is HALF RATED AMPS to each
motor simultaneously! Oops -
this is why thresholds and steep ramps are difficult with loss of
control at times.
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Penny & Giles -
VSI 50 Amp Systems |
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50 total. 25 to each motor simultaneously. Don't bother unless you are
very light and 103 years old... My model helicopter uses a 60 amp
with 80 amp "boost"!!! And nobody is sat in that.
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More to come asap!!!
1. POWERCHAIR
ONLY:
Detailed Full PowerChair Related ONLY Menu HERE
2. VEHICLE
ONLY:
Detailed Wheelchair Accessible Vehicles ONLY menu HERE
3. EVERYTHING
ELSE:
Detailed Menu of Everything else HERE!
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